Csx Layers For Clinchfield?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Warspite, Mar 7, 2021.

  1. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    I’m not sure if it has already been mentioned on here, but I wonder if DTG could add the CSX SD40-2 (in YN2), Dash8-40CW and CSX coal hoppers as layers to the forthcoming TSW2 Clinchfield route.
    One of the first North American railroad videos I bought was ‘Coal Story’ back in 1992, produced by American AltaVista and released in the UK by SPV. It is a fascinating video covering the section of the Clinchfield line from Dante VA to Elkhorn City KY and was filmed in CSX days, round about 1991-92. Most coal trains were in the hands of SD40-2s although a couple were with C30-7s. At least one through manifest train was headed by a Dash8-40CW.

    Based on that video, when Clinchfield came out for TS2020, I created a scenario for it using CSX locomotives and coal hoppers.

    Screenshot_Clinchfield Railroad - Elkhorn City to St Paul CSX8321 1.jpg Screenshot_Clinchfield Railroad - Elkhorn City to St Paul CSX8321 2.jpg

    I know some of the coal loading tipples may have gone between the 1970s/early 80s when both the TS2020 and TSW2 versions are set, but from what I can tell, most of the infrastructure did not change that much. Any thoughts?
     
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  2. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I am in.

    I have been hoping for a CSX timetable on CRR since diesel legends was announced. I think the era differences wouldn’t be as significant as they are on GWE. I also think the gameplay would be excellent.

    Diesel Legends isn’t in my wheelhouse and is not my first choice in a gameplay pack, but I plan on purchasing it anyway because I want to support the concept and see it carry over to Clinchfield.

    And, I can’t resist a timetable of new services....
     
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  3. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    Would it need a separate pack like Diesel Legends for GWE? I know the CSX SD40-2 in SPG is in the wrong livery for the 1990s but could they not just add it with the Dash8-40CW as layers to Clinchfield or am I missing something here?
     
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  4. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    The SD40 also has the Yn2 livery as well (just random to get like GP38 and AC44). And if Dovetail (or any 3rd-party) does make a gameplay pack for Clinchfield, it will depend on what other era (and the current locos and stock in TSW2) will work with this specific era of this route (which will likely be more of a modern kind if so).
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  5. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Well, they are talking about releasing these add on packs like the one that is coming out this week, so CSX for Clinchfield would be good as well as B&O for SPG.
     
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  6. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Was it has no sense is that at this point we can´t simply choose the engine we want to play a service. All they need to do is to replace one variable by the other (the loco asset name) before service starts. They do it already for the randomly generated AI traffic, which takes multiple engines from the collection. Why not for the player consist? Terrible...

    Cheers
     
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  7. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    B&O IMO is a little too far back for SPG, as the WM lines on that route are disused, so I would rather see Chessie Stuff added instead.
     
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  8. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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  9. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    very like
    Clinchfield route
     
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  10. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    I'm still not getting something. Can locomotives from other routes work as 'layers' in a new route or is it that they can only be 'layered' if they are from a locomotive add-on (or pack)? As an example, on NTP, I can select from classes 08, 40, 45, 47 and 101 but not classes 31 or 37 even though I own these locos as part of TVL. Translate this to Clinchfield, will the SD40-2 and Dash8-40CW not work with Clinchfield as they are now because they were included in SPG and not as part of a separate loco pack? Not sure I'm entirely clear about this 'layers' business!
     
  11. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Basically (as I put it), Loco Add-ons have their own separate layer in timetable/service mode that would substitute a locomotive from the train (whether it's from the route itself, or the additional services for the add-ons).
    While I ain't no tech expert on this, but Matt P. did discuss how layers work on one or so of the Dovetail streams (can't remember which one, however).
    Surely there will be a CSX pack for Clinchfield (if they want to). But what's gonna be included in this gameplay pack (if it doesn't make the same mistake as GWB), is a different story. And surely yes, the locos from Sandpatch (including the Dash 8) may get substituted in this pack if so.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  12. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    It may be my lack of knowledge on what locomotives run on what railroads, but it seems to me that ever since TSW2 released along with the Scenario planner. I feel like one of best things about TSW was the extra layers you would get with a certain locomotive. I really hope DTG doesn’t do away with layering. Having to create our own scenarios just isn’t the same as hopping into a service.
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Layering isn't limited to separate loco DLCs by any means. On the German routes, for example, the BR 146 and 185 from MSB are layered into most of them.
     
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  14. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    I was trying to remember examples from the German routes and had forgotten the layering of MSB's BR146 and BR185 in other German routes. Hopefully, DTG could layer the CSX locos from SPG into Clinchfield in the same way.
     
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  15. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    “That is possible to do in the scenario planner.” I really agree that being able to use CSX locomotives for services would be great, but I’m worried that this is the answer we will get. I don’t think they would be able to substitute CSX locomotives just for the fact that the route is set in the 1970s and I don’t believe they would want CSX locomotives randomly subbing out the F7 or the SD-40.
     
  16. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    If I recall correctly, I believe the line between Elkhorn City and Dante now only has 3 spurs.

    That aside, I would love to see the AC44, SD40-2 and GP38-2 as part of a modern scenario pack for CRR. I would totally buy that!
     
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  17. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    Yes, that's a fair point. However, although TS2021 is very different in the way scenarios/'services' are structured, DTG did include Clinchfield scenarios in the recent CSX Scenario Pack 01 for TS2021 so I haven't given up hope yet!
     
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  18. Warspite

    Warspite Active Member

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    In the video I referred to in my opening post, I think a lot of the spurs and tipples were still in use by CSX in the early 1990s. I'll have another look at the video and try and count them!
     
  19. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Yes exactly this!!! Putting together a scenario pack with a separate time table that add CSX locomotives on Clinchfield is exactly the thing we need!
     
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  20. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    So near South Allen, VA the Nora Spur stretched 6 miles from the mainline. by 1982 all the coal producers shut down. However at milepost 2.2 on the Nora Spur, another spur branches off for 2.4 miles along Neese Creek. At the end of this line is the only flood loader on the ex Clinchfield. Only 17 trains originated at this loadout in 2005.

    "The CSX Clinchfield Route in the 20th Century" by Jerry Taylor & Ray Poteat

    The other remaining branches are the Haysi (or McClure) spur and the Fremont Branch. The coal preparation plant that was on the Fremont branch closed in 1989. The site is now occupied by Forest Mountain Products
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
  21. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    The thing that strikes me about both SPG and Clinchfield is that they both possess a kind of timelessness, partly because they're both rural and are largely unchanged over the years. So, if they were offered, I would have no problem running scenario packs which included any of the predecessors of CSX, including B and O, Chessie, even WM on SPG and CSX itself on CRR. Would really love to see that deep blue B&O paint on, say, a GP30 somewhere in the game.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, very nice!
     
  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You can judge for yourself if they're the same color :cool:

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to tell these blue liveries apart with my tired old eyes. I'm reminded of the GP40 at the B&O Museum in Baltimore, which is beautifully repainted in that deep royal blue.
     
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  26. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Guess you can use your best judgment based on old photos.
    4032.jpg 04dc7a274ca8f680c0ed88bb7eaf0995.jpg
     
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  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Old photos (and I color-sampled a LOT of them for this project!) vary all over the place, both in their age and fading, and the lighting conditions, film, lens and filter used in taking the shot. Old snapshots from Instamatics and the like are especially variable. The C&O photo above has faded and desaturated rather a bit (look at how brown the Chessie vermilion is), and while the B&O picture looks nice, I suspect that it was taken with a blue filter- see the purplish tinge to the boxcar-red boxcar?

    My ultimate conclusion- (taking the several pictures I deemed had the best color balance and averaging them) was that the two shades were very, very similar, but varied by about equal small amounts from straight ultramarine, B&O very, very slightly purplish, C&O very, very slightly greenish (but not nearly as green as CSX YN3). But then factor in UV fading, dust and grime - and the fact that in the 1960s paint colors from the mfr weren't all that consistent- and you get a very wide spread. And, as I said above, I suspect that after the buyout the shops just used whichever dark blue paint was to hand.

    One modeler asked an old shop worker what they used for touchups- "We sent a guy over to Sears to buy whatever color spray paint looked closest."
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
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  28. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    Here is the ones I did last week. I didn't take the time to decide what blue each railroad used.
    I still have to put the logos on each locomotive. (modified of course because B&O/C&O didn't have the headlights on the nose.
    20210301175240_1.jpg 20210301180234_1.jpg
     
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  29. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I wound up shoving the heralds down below the headlights; better that than lose them!
     
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  30. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, I'll just make them a bit smaller than they really were so they fit nicely
     
  31. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    This is a very interesting topic, I would also like to see a loco pack for clinchfield with CSX locos. But hopefully they don’t reuse the entire SPG roster and give us that as an add on, I would like at least one (1) new train! Maybe an ES44, it’s not that different from the AC4400 except for the rear end, and the cab, and the rest of the locos (GP38-2, SD40-2) could be included in the pack to work the branches and load coal, as well as perform switching operations. If DTG (or any third party) decides to make a pack like this, it would make use of the new double timetable feature, so we would have one timetable for the clinchfield and one for CSX operations, which is included in this pack.
     
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  32. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    A bit of an understatement. In order to make a good ES44, DTG may as well start from the ground up. If they did decide to build off the AC44, nearly ever part would have to be rebuilt: cab, radiator, even the mid section. I also believe that the ES44 is a bit longer than the AC44.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  33. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Yes Dovetail would still have some work to do in order to make a proper GEVO, but the underbody of both the AC4400 and ES44AC isn’t that different, except for some slight changes to the length of the loco. GE hasn’t made many changes to the cab since the C40-8W and B40-8W, at least from an external perspective, the inside is a whole lot different.
     
  34. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    There are some differences that have evolved. Even the details on the ES44s can vary even between not just railroads, but individual orders as well, such as door placement, headlight placement, numberboard placement, etc.
    Here is an example: CSX 1776 has the cab door on the engineer's side, while CSX 911 from a different order has it on the conductor's side
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Even ES44s from early orders have the number boards on the nose, as opposed to on the top of the cab
    [​IMG]
     
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  35. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    True, dovetail would still have some work to do, it would be an all new loco for TSW if it ever comes, and hopefully it does.
     
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  36. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely correct and keep in mind DTG needs to make them EPA January 2015 Tier 4 compliant locomotives ET44AC CSX 3000s while the SD70ACE are the 8900s
     
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  37. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    That would be a dream come true:)
     
  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Meh. The ES44s and pre-2015 SD70ACes are better locomotives. Tier 4 standards have nerfed the engines as badly as early-70s emission controls nerfed car engines.
     
  39. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on that and purchase them for Clinchfield Railroad modern-day you should be able to layer them on to Sand Patch Grade if you want post 2015 since SD70ACE 8900s together with ET44AC 3000s operate that route.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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