Current State Of The Game (spoiler: Not Good)

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Task, Dec 20, 2021.

  1. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I look forward to steam too, especially the opportunity it presents for a transition period mix of steam and older diesel traction. ( though this period is not the same in the three countries). And I also realize that it's almost an imperative for DTG to cover this third segment of railroading.
    But then I wonder about the marketplace. I get the impression from the forums, chat rooms and the preponderance of modern routes and locos ( or should I say emus ) that the player base is mostly composed of people to whom a steam engine is about as familiar and interesting as a typewriter, rotary phone or a black and white television. The demand and its consequent dlc seem to be for modern, modern and yet more modern. Here we have Horse Shoe Curve coming, which would have been a perfect platform for older diesel, but we know that it will come with a modern "Evolution " loco. Are there enough COF's like me or younger players with a fascination with historical steam to sustain a steady flow of steam releases?
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
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  2. AmbyyRose

    AmbyyRose Member

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    I do agree somewhat on this point, I am quite a zen individual and patient(Sometimes) but sometimes I spot a few things or experience other flaws within the game that just baffle me as to how and why they are there. It made me think, is DTG seriously just releasing stuff with major issues or are they just really unfamiliar still with Unreal Engine? I just hope that things get better over time as I do majorly enjoy TSW2 since it's my only option as of right now being that my PC went kaputt and my only option now is console. Again, I wish nothing but positivity and improvement for DTG and hope that they will be able to release more quality stuff.
     
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  3. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    What bothers me is that the focus is somehow missing. There is a lot of nice content and routes, but they often only seem like "teasers". Best example: the TGV. The train is really well and comprehensively done - sure it was a lot of work. But then there is only one piece of track that ends after a short ride in nowhere and you always have the feeling that you are only playing a demo level. Why all the effort if it is only implemented half-heartedly then? Why not build the entire route in stages - spread over 4 separate DLCs for example (even without route merging) - and then the TGV thing is finished and they turn to something new.
    At the moment, we have many different, mixed pieces of track spread out wildly. Why not build this with a route network in mind? In England, for example, it would be a good idea to divide the ECML or the WCML among different DLCs. This way one could gradually puzzle together a route and then really have the feeling that one "travels" from A to B and not always just doing a short sprint.
    Others might just buy the piece (DLC) that interests them and do shorter commuter services or the like.
    That would also be much more effective for advertising... "Today we finally announce the last piece of the WCML...". For many who already had the previous parts, this would then be an absolute must-buy.

    And what surprises me most from a developer's point of view: that each DLC including the trains is still a "game in itself". At least the trains should be universally usable. This seems to me to be a fundamental design flaw that demands tons of additional work. Even if you copy and paste the trains into the next route... Imagine that there is an error in the first version and you have to fix it again in all copied versions - that is a nightmare and costs valuable time.
     
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  4. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    If there was as heavily of a leaning toward modern locos as TSW you wouldn't see model railroad manufacturers be making anywhere near the number of steam locomotives they do currently. Nor would you see places like K&L Trainz or N3V making dozens of steamers for Trainz. The market absolutely exists, the bigger problem is really if DTG have the resources to cater to them or not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
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  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, that is already a reality with BML/ECW; one can drive from Victoria to Eastbourne , although one has to change routes at Brighton. And (at least with freight) it has long been the case with RSN/RRO.
     
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  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, there is a technical issue with one of the online stores which makes that impossible; each loco needs to have a "home" route.
    Although it seems to me that DTG could create a dummy, contentless route attached to the base game which serves as the "home" for all rolling stock.
     
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  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    This is something that has occurred to me with most of the routes, latest being SF Corridor which is really nicely done but couldn't help thinking, "If only it went on for another 15 or 20 miles." Likewise Trans Pennine and Tees Valley. I know there are constraints and we as the audience have gone over them many times, both the technical and financial aspects of longer routes. However at some time they really have to come as a 40 to 50 mile snapshot doesn't always cut it.
     
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  8. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps there is. But it is understandable why many people wouldn't want older routes. People tend to like what they are surrounded by. For example, I perfer modern American passenger trains because modern trains are trains that i grew up with. I wouldn't want to have a old steam train in a American route because old trains aren't interesting to me.

    You can also use the German community as an example. German players tend to perfer modern trains instead of old trains. I suspect this is due to the fact that alot of them grew up with more modern trains or they don't find older trains that interesting. When i look at the suggestions in the fourms, alot of routes that players want are with modern trains, not older trains. I don't think I ever saw a suggestion of the Brighton Mainline for example to be set in the 90s or before with the older slam door emu's

    Some people may just perfer older traction, but perhaps older routes wouldn't sell well compared to a modern route. For example, I am not aware of DTG ever doing a historic German route before in Train Simulator. I believe they had a route with a German Steam train though. That could be down to the fact that again modern trains in Germany are much more popular than older trains. DTG would want to maximize profits so they probably wouldn't ever make a historic German route
     
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  9. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    Yes, those are two good examples: that's exactly what I mean.

    Riesa > Dresden and Dresden > Chemnitz is also an example of two indirectly connected routes. For example, I could travel from Meißen to Freiberg and - as in real life - I would have to change trains (and the route ;)) once in Dresden, which is fine.
    Theoretically, you could then build the Chemnitz > Riesa line - and that would make a neat little network. I would always build such "networks" and then consequently turn my attention to other regions.
     
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  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Alot of routes in tsw don't really feel complete. I understand dev time but it begs the question on when are we gonna see more longer complete routes like in Train Simulator. The game has been out for almost 5 years. I like the idea of network type routes as well as it gives you plenty to do instead of driving to the same a-b location over and over again
     
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  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    At the least, DTG should be investigating portals, maybe similar to the tunnel hotspots in Snowrunner, where you press to go to another map. An example could be Paddington with the Bakerloo, Dresden as mentioned or Brighton where current routes abut.
     
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  12. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Of course the TS route to Gilroy does add about 30 miles to the original SF- San Jose route, as well as about 20 extra miles of UP freight operations, though it's actually a separate route and purchase.

    When I first bought TSW, I had a notion that it would be similar to TS , but better graphically and gameplay wise. Well it is, but at the price of shorter routes and fewer trains. Plus, so far, it's much too modern day for my taste. But, as they say, it is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
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  13. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    I'm in my mid 20's and I personally love steam, while I grew up around modern routes and trains I would chose steam over a modern route (except a few) even though I never saw steam on the mainline while growing up, in my opinion steam's just better (I defiantly think I was born in the wrong decade). I think the best thing would be a mix of of era's reasons for which I'll list below
    I only know about British routes/trains so this will be based on what we do here
    • Modern routes - this will keep the younger players happy some of which complain even if the route is backdated 2 or 3 years (GWE and no Class 800 for example). This would also keep most of the older players happy because they seem to play route's no matter what year its set in and seem to be a lot less fussy and acknowledge the fact you don't always get what you want in life.
    • Steam/Diesel transition routes - This would appeal to lots of different people because it can have the biggest variety not just in terms of traction but the rolling stock used. We could get a better feeling of life on the railways, just look at West Cornwall a route in the very south of England using layers from routes in the north of England something that just cant happen on a modern route eg. TPE on GWR territory. This would allow routes to continually grow from each other constantly making older routes better while adding a large variety of trains to drive from day one on newer routes.
    • Steam only routes - Unlike the two above which could be in rotation this would probably only work as an every once in a while type of route as the player base for steam only is probably very small. This would be nice to see to get that feeling of life as it was back in the heyday of the railways when life was a lot simpler than it is now and people used the railways for their daily life's not just as that thing that isn't a car. This could also work on transition routes where the main route is a mix of steam and diesel but with a branch line or two which are still operated by steam locomotives.
    This went on a lot longer than planned but I think this could be a major turning point for the game and will be a great way to expand the player base to people who currently feel under represented. Like I said above I only know about British routes but I'm sure the same logic can be applied to other countries whether the big three or countries not already in the game :)
     
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  14. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    It's in Unreal Engine, I'm not a developer so I can't explain more than that but it's what I've heard :) why the base game or a "tutorial route" can't be a home I don't understand because the routes "home" are the baser game

    I'm not sure if the problem is as big as it seems, I own the DB BR 155 but not Ruhr-Sieg Nord and have driven it on Rhein-Ruhr Osten without problems other than not having a tutorial. Sam or Matt have said that the main problem is where do tutorials go like with my example I managed how to get the 155 moving but that's about all I can do. I do think a route just for tutorials would be great :)
     
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  15. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    Or at Reading, you have to stop there anyway so instead of the route complete screen it could pop up with a message like the "do you want to give up" but instead ask "do you want to load the next part of the route" and then load the next service, not perfect but just something which might work as the routes are loaded in tiles anyway :)
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Like the Academy in TS
     
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  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I never did quite understand why GWE didn't at least go to Didcot
     
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  18. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    IIRC Sam said like TS Academy but not like TS Academy, so what that means is anyone's guess :)

    What Matt's said before being only the second route for TSW everything took longer than planned as it is currently, it was meant to have all the branch lines but even those were cut. It would be nice to have more of the route one day :)
     
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  19. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    There's no reason you'd need to make a dedicated route for tutorials or hosting the DLC locos at, you could just use one of the included routes for that purpose.
     
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  20. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    If those routes ever became separate from the main game then it would cause everyone to have to purchase the route to get tutorials or for DTG to re-make every tutorial on a new route so a simple core route would be the best option in my opinion :)
     
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  21. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    So your solution to that problem is to spend time and resources making a tutorial route that would take away resources from other update and DLC? There's another far simpler solution to that problem, don't change the base content every year. They already did a different strategy with Rush Hour, they could just keep repeating that model. Also there's already gonna be potential issues swapping out routes at this point. Keep in mind the expansion pack that contains livery sharing is also adds content for the three existing routes. So they're already kind of committed to the three base routes, unless they either want to spend effort detaching sharing from the expansion pack, or want to make people buy a bunch of content they potentially can't use.
     
  22. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

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    Most of these posts are pretty spot on, and resonate how I feel. I think the tldr of it seems

    - Dovetail are interested in quick-turnover routes and having really large dlc sets per title
    - TSW titles will take 7-9 months on average and not allowed allotted time beyond that
    - Development cycle means stricter release schedules and limited content palette is more favourable than a delayed release
    - Route releases, multiple bugs ranging in severity and scope (mostly weak in the actual simulation side) called out
    - Releases and improvements to those fixes will take ages, or just broken promises
    ---> Frustrated userbase... rinse and repeat for the next one.

    This doesn't mean that DTG won't stop and self-evaluate, change things or listen to the community. Some surprises have come out of TSW and the way DTG work.

    But ultimately... their development agenda causes underbaked turnovers, a growing portfolio of inconsistent quality and cumulative problems for them. This is really problematic, as compared to other titles such as Euro Truck Sim or Flight Sim... you're not really taking the time to create a compelling long-term experience for users. (And it's not like a business cannot make money by taking that strategy more seriously. Imagine if networked routes were properly thought out, and did the full Southern Network over the course of 5 DLCs.) TSW has more advantages over its predecessor... but rarely exploits it to its full potential (e.g. BML Timetable).

    And I'm afraid... that probably will never change.
     
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  23. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    But that paragraph is inherently contradictory. On the one hand we want DTG to spend more time per route, lengthen the release cycle and emphasize quality over quantity..... but also increase the number of networkable routes while at the same time pleasing those players who want more variety, more varied rolling stock and a bigger slice of the world represented, and those two last could only be addressed simultaneously by a significant increase in release pace and a greater DLC volume than at present.

    You may want the full Southern network- but a poster not so far above predicted torches and pitchforks if DTG release another Electrostar route. How can DTG please everybody while producing less?
     
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  24. Jon from Rhode Island

    Jon from Rhode Island Active Member

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    Outsourcing to third party devs, each with exclusivity over a particular group of countries. You’d have the Benelux experts, the Japan experts, the Aussie experts, etc. Let locals be the creative behind route selection and design.
     
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  25. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    This is still the biggest mistake they've ever made in my eyes. One of the base rules of making complex systems is to reduce redundancy/duplications as best as you can, not willingly generate it.

    They said it's to reduce the chance of accidentally breaking old content while addings new or fixing something. Yet they still break old stuff with pretty much every release, so clearly this method didn't help them in this. It however makes fixing old stuff harder, as you will end up with different iterations of the same loco or asset and you will need to manually go back and fix it if you want it fixed. This approach generates more work and keeping track of things is generally just much harder.

    Let's not even mention the efficiency of this whole approach. For example, currently every route will have it's own scenery assets in the game files. That means if an asset is reused from one route to another, it will still be a separate copy of the exactly same asset, meaning it takes up storage space twice for no real reason. Those generic sedans and SUV you see on all routes with the yellow and white licence plates? Every route will have a copy of them, even though they are exactly the same. What is the point?
    Of course, I'm actually happy it's this way, as this means one can mod each route's assets independently. So for example you can change the texture on vehicles or building assets to increase immersion for one route, without making the same asset totally unfit for other routes (changing licence plates or branding, for example). So from a modding point of view, it's great. But obviously modding is not intended by the developers, so shared assets would make much more sense. Ideally routes would feature much more unique assets, not using the same british generic car model for every country around the world and the same warehouse model since SPG. So only unique assets would be separate, while generic "use everywhere" assets would be shared.
     
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  26. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly my words. In short almost non of the routes live up to its potential. Either because the lenght or because the variety compared to real.

    Thats why in my opinion the aspect "world" in ts(w) isnt earned yet. The routes still remind me too much on ts20xx.

    But to be honest, that doesnt make the existing routes less fun.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
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  27. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Thats why i keep supporting this sim. With more and more rolling stock the variety increases. So a new route can be made differently (more interesting) in the amount of services, just because the rolling stock is available.

    Thats why we need rivet, skyhook and more third parties.

    Whatever they do, focus needs to be on quality. The amount of work to fix a broken released loco or route just doesnt seem to match for going the extra mile in the first place.

    (Br187...im sure they lost a lot of customers, seems really dare this short sighted view for the first loco dlc.) People will check before buying, thats why the curve went into production again. And this is a good sign, they should take the time to release it in 1A condition.
     
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  28. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    If the big focus for 2022 isn't bug fixing and smoothing out the pipeline for preservation crew fixes coming to player machines then DTG will have got it wrong. I expect some clear and firm guidance on this in the big end of year Q&A. This must be pretty clear to Matt as his first new year as Exec Producer. There have been some good first steps like working closer with the 3rd parties but things like the 204/150/187 need fixing properly and there needs to be a elimination of existing bugged DLC.
     
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  29. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

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    Think you misunderstood...I'm not here advocating for more releases and more stock. I'm advocating for a more consistent handle on the core platform and planning out of the "train-sim universe" (Que Marvel theme music). More emphasis on core-fixes and features required for stock, rather than iterative editions that keep bloating the game and leave other DLCs isolated (example regressions in signalling logic, timetables, weather, door controls etc.) And then actually planning out DLC that doesn't leave a stunted experience, and connects more with existing content... so that it increases the value of my current library of routes.

    - The most engaging content by far is the German DLC. Even if the routes are not connected, being able to use a wide-variety of stock is extremely appealing. Compare that to the state of American routes which feel so disjointed and cut-short from their real life counterparts (most of the time).

    - Sure, not everyone will want more electrostar. But like it or not, they are a fairly dominant stock... and will appear again. ECW worked well with Electrostars as that was the first appearence, and had a fairly good run-length. But London - Brighton amplified that experience so much more, because of its timetable. The variety and scope of rolling stock, combined with the power of timetable mode. That featureset objectively appeals more players (being the only route that has managed to maintain a steam rating comparable to GWE). There's enough to argue there that, with enough polish, it could have been to best Uk route for TSW ever.

    "But that will never work"

    Yes it can. Why is it that both Truck and Flight Sims have a much more popular community and market? ETS2 and ATS have a considerably lower DLC count with lower average prices, but SCS can still rake in 16 million USD for a 170+ studio. That content is also only accessible on PC, so no console boost. Their content is suited for expansive connected experiences and a emphasis on a polished experience. (Combined with accessible tools for an expansive for third-parties).

    TLDR : DTGs unusual and "tunnel-vision" approach to TSW, combined with a desire to have an extremely large portfolio is not effective, and ultimately making some similar mistakes to TS Classic.
     
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  30. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    You made a really good point. In my opinion its still waaay too much in the shoes of ts classic. With all the unused potential they still have a long way to go until it can be called "train sim world"

    And yes, the way dlcs are made until now (i guess it has improved with rush hour), they are mostly stuck in it self. Not expansionable without a ton of rework.

    Thats why i asked about dtgs approach on loco addons, because we need more variety for make this possible.
     
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  31. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

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    Spot on. There is a gold-mine of opportunity here that could make DTG very rich, and players very happy. But right now, it still plays out like TS Classic : Unreal Edition. That isn't to say Dovetail can't or hasn't made substantial improvements, but it's still within the confines of the sandbox they've dug... to some extent.
     
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  32. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Because trucks and planes are way, way more popular with the broader gaming public than trains. Our niche is in terms of numbers not too far above sailboat sims; don't think for a moment that there are any improvements DTG can make that will catapult TSW into ETS levels of sales.
    I get what you are saying; and I personally would love to see the existing Rhineland content built into a comprehensive network including Siegen and Koblenz.

    The problem with that is that every route developed for the Ruhr valley or southern England is a route that ISN'T developed for Bavaria or Austria or Scotland or Australia; and every route built to take advantage of existing rolling stock is a route that doesn't add new rolling stock.
     
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  33. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I highly doubt that's the case.

    Trucks are more accessible, as they are basically just big cars, and the big majority of people will know how to drive cars, and you can program to whole thing onto WASD like any other video game - but trucks are also less interesting. Just look at kids, most will prefer trains over cars. There is a reason toy train sets are a separate thing, while toy trucks are much less. Or how you will have plenty of trackside railfan or train cab ride live feeds on the internet, I doubt highway truck spotting videos are that popular, if they're even a thing.

    As for planes, for the majority of people they are only interesting because of the process of flying, but very few people are actually interested in planes themselves. They're also harder to control even in a dumbed down simulation, so they're less accessible.

    Trains on an overall scale clearly are more popular than trucks or planes in my opinion. I mean why else would we have tons of train simulators on the market (TS, TSW, Trainz, Run8, Derail Valley, etc), while trucks basically only have like ETS/ATS and maybe MudRunner/SnowRunner that are bigger names. And for planes you only have MSFS, basically. Maybe Il2, but that's really not a mainstream game, and things like War Thunder are more arcade games for the majority.

    So my point is, there is a reason the market is flooded with countless of train simulators. Train fanning being a niche hobby is a weak excuse and simply not true. Just think of model railways, toy trains, train cartoons, etc. The only reason TSW is doing "poor" compared to MSFS or Truck Simulator is because it has many competitors in the train simulator genre and it doesn't offer enough to win over them, as seen by many people still sticking to Trainz or TS or Run8.

    DTG needs to invest in better quality and more countries to really grow. Because the base game with amazing potential is there. But you need to attract new people in with good quality and new stuff, not only appeal to the current fans with the same british EMUs and german fans with the same TRAXX locomotive for the 20th time and US fans with another heavy freight route using another standard normal-cab+comfort-cab loco pair. Sure, these also have to exsist, as for example I love both Sherman Hill, Sand Patch Grade and interested in Cane Creek as well. But they need to invest in new things to grow, not just hide behind excuses and make the same thing over and over again. I love this game, but this mentality is ridiculous and saddening to see.
     
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  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It wasn’t always the case. Back in the late 90’s there were virtually no train sims that used proper visuals and sounds, pretty much all - like Simudrive or the SIAM driver games - were text based. I actually started a website to highlight the sorry state of things, compared to flight where by then we had FS98 and a whole cartload of military sims, even back in 1993 we had the likes of Airbus 320 on the Amiga. Not sure about road driving as the emphasis tended to be on racing/rallying rather than transportation. However the Magnetic Fields Rally Championship of 1999 had graphics we could only dream of for train driving.

    It wasn’t until the dawn of Trainmaster 3 in early 2001, hotly followed by MSTS then Trainz that our hobby caught up. So sadly it has always been a bit of a niche in the transport sim stakes and, while we may grouch and grumble at times, we are quite well served by what DTG provide for us.
     
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  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Flying games have been huge since the beginning of videogaming (going back to old titles like A-10 Attack! and F-16 Fighting Falcon), and on through the Ace Combat series and a list of military flight sims/games too long to write down-- and that's even before talking about the huge number of space flying games out there, from Wing Commander to Elite: Dangerous and No Man's Sky. The joystick itself arose years ago from the need to "fly" virtual air/spacecraft.

    As for trucks: an outgrowth of the absolutely gigantic driving-game genre, from Mario Kart to Need For Speed to Forza Horizon, not to mention all the broader games where driving is an integral component like Grand Theft Auto.
     
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  36. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    And there was me thinking the main appeal was surgically removing innocent bystanders' heads with my shotgun...:cool:

    My very first flight sim was F16 Combat Pilot on the Amiga, spent hours on it. Same developer went on to do Tornado. Then there were all the Microprose sims and later the EA/Janes series.
     
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  37. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Racing games are entirely differeng genre from truck simulators, however. Many people will enjoy a GTA or a NFS, but not so many will enjoy obeying traffic laws and backing up trailers in Truck Simulator.

    As for flight simulators, there are many of them, that's for sure, but other than MSFS, none of them are really mainstream. MSFS is an amazing game, which shows in popularity. TSW, on the other hand, is a good train simulator, but definitely not that "WOAH!" factor that MSFS will give you, for example. And this shows in player numbers.

    Same for Truck Simulator. Either Euro or American, it gives you a smaller version of the whole continent, gives you the ability to make your own company, buy and customize trucks, etc. And no game-breaking bugs, no infinite traffic jams because of red lights not changing. As much as I love TSW, MSFS and Truck Simulator are simply much, much better games. And this shows in player numbers.

    I'm not saying TSW needs to introduce player company business mechanisms and such, but quality wins people over. Rushed releases and barely reaching the "that will be enough" line with the same 3 country does not, on the other hand. We all know TSW could be much better if each DLC would be given a bit more time to mature before release.

    Increase in overall quality would increase opinions and ratings, so people wouldn't only buy the "mixed reviews" routes on sales, more confidence in the quality would also mean more day one purchases and more hype, which helps attract more people. Same with routes. Those who are not interested in the US/UK/DE trio will not switch over to TSW if all it offers is the same three countries even years after release.
     
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  38. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    There’s a lot of opinions on here, of which some I completely agree with, some not at all, and others in part, however the overall tone of the thread I agree with.

    One part of the conversation I want to echo is the network discussion, which in itself has ties to the discussion revolving around mistakes being repeated, routes generally being too short, rolling stock being reused too often, and different content that feels like it’s the same content.

    I’ll start by saying I’m completely disregarding weather a route is good or bad, I just want to home in on a point, and that point is that DTG are recreating similar experiences across the majority of their DLC, whilst the DLC has very little meaning when you look at a larger collection. Take SEHS, BML & ECW, arguably SEHS offers a very similar experience to the other 2, however it stands alone in terms of a broader experience. I think a CML route from Victoria, WCW, SWML or SEML DLC would of been more appropriate, the only thing you’d miss gameplay wise, is the HS section, but that isn’t even much of a focus in SEHS.

    The same can be said really for the German content, overall it seems like the general experience can be kept the same, but in a more focused manner, and less of a scattered approach when looking at the location of a DLC, then it would really feel more like a collection that means something, and less of a random assortment of routes that generally use recycled stock anyway.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
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  39. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Before ETS2 blew up truck simulation was very niche, certainly would say more so than Train Simulator from personal experience. When I got in simulators I initially got into Trainz, but heard about Railworks, and Microsoft Flight Simulator, and its combat subvariant, as well as IL-2 and DCS for that matter, and even Ship Simulator. Yet I never heard of any of the older truck simulators, even though SCS was making them when I was getting into them. It wasn't until I saw all these people start making videos about ETS2 where I really became aware of it, and the truck simulator genre as well.
    Exactly, that was the initial reaction by most people who got a hold of it that weren't already into simulators. They initial went into it for a laugh because someone gifted to them, and figured it would be another dime a dozen simulator, only to love it after they started to play it. The reason why Euro Truck has became the number one simulator, even surpassing the likes of long runner Microsoft Flight Simulator, is because tons of people like NerdCubed and Zero Punctuation who otherwise normally didn't tend to love simulators had tons of fun playing ETS2.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
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  40. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    If the bean counter's from DTG are reading this thread they should be worried. There seems to be a few people who have stopped playing (me included) and people who are playing it a lot less. Surely DTG should be taking notes.

    I see TSW2 getting bugged down with all this critical bugs across the platforms. What have new users on the Xbox/PS got in purchasing TSW2 given the sound, save and the old gen problems? The PC may not have as many problems but it still does, the lighting issue bugs me (Pun intended). Driving at night is near impossible, stations are nearly blacked out, anyone would think there is a war going on.

    IMO DTG have to get on top of these 'queued' bug fixes, especially the preserved routes. Then there are still outstanding core fixes and with RH. Perhaps if they fixed them it would make the game more stable and able to handle new DLC better, I think it would. I know they have to make money but do they take into account the players they are losing?

    For me TSW2 should be way more popular than it is. Perhaps not all kids want to be train drivers like a few decades ago but some do still. Will steam be a hit? Not sure really, For me I love steam, the engines are brill. Do I want to drive one? I can reel off a number of Diesels I would prefer to drive. Will steam be on an old route or will DTG come up with the excuse 'we didn't have time' and stick it on a modern route killing the immersion?

    I think why TSW2 isn't as popular as say ETS2 is that there is more to in ETS2. In TSW2 you get in a train and go to a set destination and that is basically it. I argued for a career mode sometime ago and think it would go down well and tie in your Loco's and routes or give us COMPLETE routes. What DTG did to the GWE is criminal imo. Give us routes that overlap, so Say I go to Paddington then I could get a tube and then get off that tube and connect to somewhere else.

    If I had he choice of connecting different routes or seeing extra passengers as in RH I'd take the connecting routes every time.
     
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  41. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    As a quick comparison, as of writing ETS2 has 21 streams on Twitch with over 10 viewers (including 2 over 100), TSW2 has none above 5, TS doesn't seem much better though it's harder to tell as each yearly iteration is listed separately, but I couldn't see one over 6.
     

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