Hi guys, After cruising around Bakerloo, I moved on to my second train today, the BR 146 on MSB. What a pain! It's such a complicated thing when it comes to traction. For example, if you accelerate above 120kmph and don't have the left/right door selector to locked, then you loose traction. I also noticed that if you slow down near a station, then you can suddenly loose traction, even if you're not in position yet. <- further investigation has disclosed that it's probably related to a bug. I think I've also had the parking break engaged just as I was in the process of taking off from a station. <- <- Same bug, it's not the parking break, it's regarding traction not returning after disengaging the brakes. What's going on with that thing, am I missing something here? This is will all the safety systems except SIFA off, but I know for certain that I didn't miss that one all those times. Also the passenger lights sometimes refuse to go on...
back in TSW2020 I felt that the BR 146 and 185 were one of the easiest trains to use, not much to set up, responding throttle and break. Now with the adhesion physics you need just a tad more finesse when accelerating and breaking. The losing traction issue I only encounter when rainy or snowy and when applying too much break force at once. Parking break should never be applied when doing timetable runs, I believe these are only applied in scenarios. Overall I still absolutely like these trains and it is actually more engaging driving these in tsw2 in my opinion. As soon as the soudn issues and the max speed issue are fixed (upcoming patch), I will be satisfied with them.
I really enjoy driving the 146 and 185. Maybe I’m used to them now, but I haven’t noticed what was said in the OP happening when driving these locomotives myself.
It's not adhesion that is the issue, no slipping or anything. One thing that I have found out so far is that when using the breaks while the engine is coasting / in OFF, you'll loose engine power/traction. Basically I have to do this: <release break> <Move the trottle from off to min and then back to off> <then I can finally apply throttle as normal> If I don't do that, then the engine icon on the hud will be red and I won't get traction.
Hm. The overall mechanism is an actual German safety system, the throttle gets overwritten by the break lever. In order to apply power again as you said, you have to release the breaks and then reset the throttle. But I believe I have seen this issue you mention, where you have to switch to min and back to off in order to apply power again. I don't think all of the trains have that and I actually don't think it was in TSW2020, so it is probably a little buggy. But not gamebreaking in any way imo.
True, but if you don't know what's causing it and then franetically press buttons to figure it out does lead to frustration. I did just notice that pressing the sifa key (even if there is no alert) also gives back traction to the engine once the brakes are released, which is easier to time then fiddling with the engine controls.
So I have just started up the BR 146 and tested everything out you mentioned. Edit: MSB Timetable standard weather conditions, service from Aschaffenburg to Gemünden. 1. not getting traction when taking off - Had no issue at all. doors closed, breaks released, applied power, train moved. Immediate traction and traction control, nothing was blocked. 2. Losing traction when going 120 km/h+ with door switch not on locked - Speeding up to and over 120 km/h I fiddled with the door choser switch and regardless of the positon it was in, literally nothing happened. Still was speeding up, didn't lock the throttle, didn't gain or lose traction or speed. 3. (my before point) breaking locks the throttle even when throttle is already off - I tried both: a) having throttle up and breaking locks the throttle as intended, releasing the brakes keeps the throttle locked as intended, putting the throttle to off and applying power again immediately gives me full control over the throttle as intended. b) I had the throttle on off and applied breaking power. Throttle got locked as intended. Released breaks, throttle was immediately clear. No need to put the throttle on min - off and min again. So my own statement from before is wrong, it works perfectly fine and just as intended. 4. SiFa gives back traction even without SiFa warning- No matter what I did, power on, power off, breaks applied, breaks released, SiFa did not change anything about traction or power or anything at all (and should not). If you don't acknowlede SiFa fast enough it will soft break your train, meaning it is an emergency break that can be released without the need to halt completely. If SiFa puts you on emergency break and you press SiFa then, it will rlease emergency break and give you full control over your train again. This is the only thing I can imagine that would fit your statement remotely. 5. Losing traction when stoppign at a station - Just did not happen for me. The only thing that happened was me sliding a few meters when going harsh on the breaks for the last meters. This was my own research from just a couple of minutes ago and by that my before statement of a possible min - off - min throttel bug seems to be wrong. I also cannot agree with your investigations from top post from my own research. What do you see when you "lose traction"? Do you mean the red waves next to the speed, or the red box around the gear counter in the HUD?
Yes can confirm number 3, the throttle is “locked out” after applying the brakes, throttle to min/off and apply resets it. No traction (adhesion) issues, for me mostly. When I’ve done scenarios in the Autumn, I take power initially and don’t fully “notch up” until around 80/90 Km/h or I do get wheelslip at 100% power around 70-80 Km/h, in Autumn I’d expect this.
I'm talking about the red box. This is one of the things that I was talking about without realizing what was causing it. Pressing the SiFa button resets it as well.
Are you by any chance referring to the Dosto? There's an issue with the Dosto. If you apply the brakes, you have to then acknowledge SiFa for the traction interlock to release. It's rather odd.
I am on xbox and I'm replying on the assumption that your issue is not platform specific. I agree with what's being said by mclitke I have no issues at all with the BR146 and 185. 1 about the doors, I use the pad controls so I can't help you. 2 about the general issues with "losing traction" it never ever happened to me and I've played the 146 a lot (it is, in fact my most used loco) on SKA, HRR, MSB, and RRO (so it's not route specific unless your problems were on HMA) About the need to do the off-min-off is not necessary all you need to do is wait until the brakes are almost fully released before starting to apply power, I wait until there is ~1bar on the brake cylinder gauge (on the right side of the cab).
That is the thing that doesn't happen to me, I either need to either press the SiFa button or set the throttle to min and then off before the traction interlock comes off. I seem to be facing the same issue as LucasLCC and Shaun123. I'm not sure if it matters, but did you test with the Dosto combi on PC by any chance? As for the door control issue, that probably doesn't exist and it's likely that I blamed it all on the weird behavior of the traction interlock. P.S. Thank you so much for your exhaustive testing!
Yes I was pulling some dosto wagons. More important, were you sitting in the 146 or in the double decker control car? I only tested when in the actual locomotive...
I think it happens in both, but I was in the actual 146 when I made the original post. If you like, I could make a recording. Edit: Right, so I was doing the recording, only to discover that it's now working properly. The main difference? I'm now running a regular timetable and yesterday was a scenario. I'll do a scenario after I finish this run and see if I can replicate the issue there.
Sorry for the double post, but I just wanted to let you know that I re-tested it in a scenario and the bug seems to be completely gone. I still uploaded the last video though, just in case anyone is interested and also because I'm looking for an answer to my final question. Why won't the passenger lights go on / electrics to the dosto from the main loc? I think it's a bug in this scenario since it works sometimes, but not always when loading it. However someone here should be able to tell me if I'm overlooking something. You can see me fiddling with the passenger lights around 2:20min.
Edit: this is the procedure for the dosto control car! Passenger lights for dosto are certainly bugged. I don't know completely if it is exactly the same between MSB and RSN, but in order to get the complete train lit and the destination boards working, you have to flick the engine switch on your left side to "start", raise the pantograph and close the MCB button. If you do that and then switch the passenger lights on, it should light up all wagons.
You might want to try to wait until the brakes are fully release before applying power again. You can check the brake cylinder pressure either using the HUD or the gauges in the cab.
Yes, that works with the dosto car indeed. It seems I can get the DB 146 lights working pretty well in timetable mode, it's just this specific scenario that appearently has an issue. I guess that closes all my question. The weird traction interlock bug that I had yesterday and some others confirmed seems to be gone today and the lights are now sorted out as well. Thanks everyone for helping clear this up and especially the exhaustive testing!
Weird occurences for sure, I just hope that you are fine driving with the train now, it would be a shame if you didn't like it! And that they can get the sounds adjusted soon, the electric engine howling is way too loud and all other sounds almost not recognizable. Always need to lower the game volume when driving the 146.5, the other versions (185.5 and 185.2) are a bit better in that regard while still not at TSW2020 levels.
The engine is really loud indeed, the sounds are much better balanaced in the Dosto cab. I just encountered the bug again though and managed to make a recording of it. I didn't record the game sound by accident, but you can hear me explaining what's going on plus seeing it for yourself. I was just thinking, since I didn't appear on the DB146 during my earlier testing, I might have gotten it wrong and it could be a Dosto issue instead. It is still fun to drive though, especially now that I know how to get around the bug. + as this is the second route that I'm exploring after Bakerloo (where snow melts) I can say that I'm loving the snow.
yes it looks lovely with the snow! Be careful though, it gets really slippery when breaking too harsh! Btw thank you alot for the video, this baffles me. I recommend opening up a thread in the technical issues section and upload the video there, this should be perfect feedback for the devs for troubleshooting/bugfixing!
I just tried it for myself and was able to reproduce the bug with the Dosto on MSB. I think what it happening here is that there are (at least) two scenarios where the traction interlock would need to close to allow motive power, such as: When the throttle changes from Min to 0 (after braking) When a Sifa brake penalty is released I think what is happening here is that the game is not checking for whether the throttle is in the 0 position, but rather it's monitoring the change from Min to 0. I tried to reproduce the bug with the 146.2 to no success. It seems that the bug affects the BR 766.2 (the Dosto that comes with MSB) but I will also test the two variants of the 767.2 and report back. Cheers
Yes that’s the bug that’s been around for a while. I only just discovered that pressing the Sifa button clears it, I’ve previously just done the throttle trick. The bug applies to only one version of the Dosto as far as I know, the one that is standard for MSB and HRR. The other one is fine. I don’t know which is which.
So I just did a bit more testing and found that the RSN version of the Dosto (767.2 DABpzbfa DB) does not have this issue although it does have a different issue. It doesn't affect the gameplay, but when the brakes are enabled, the traction interlock does not turn red on the HUD. The throttle is locked as you would expect though. And the lock enabled perfectly fine when I used the throttle. The other one, the 767.2 DABpzbfa that comes with the BR 182 DLC, works well. When the brakes are released, the interlock is still red on the HUD, but once you push the throttle from 0 to Min, it closes as you would expect and the locomotive applies tractive effort. Sifa acknowledge also enables traction once the brakes are released on this Dosto. So it appears that the MSB variant, the 766.2, is missing a line of code that also checks for when the brakes are released and then throttle is moved from 0 to Min. At this moment, it only checks the converse. The 767.2 checks for both. Cheers
Sorry for getting the 146.2 and the Dostos mixed up yesterday, I was a bit overwhelmed! Luckily pressing the Sifa button to fix it is easily learned.\ I sneakily turned off wetness and just enjoyed the view. Thanks for much for the testing & confirming that I'm not totally mad! If it's something that DTG isn't aware off then I'll submit the video in the bug report section.
This echos my findings. The MSB Dosto is the one to have the weird SiFa bug. The RSN and RT Dostos are immune to this problem...
It does, but the throttle area does not turn red. I noted this in my post. This only occurs with the RSN variant of the Dosto.
Hey Callum, I was just reading today's roadmap and it sounds like your issue with the RSN version of the Dosto has been resolved:
I don´t know if there are bugs involved, but for the traction issues: everytime you apply brakes, after releasing them the power lever needs to come to the off position in order to be able to apply traction to engines again. Not to the min, but to the off (or 0 when available). The Min is just intended for coasting. Don´t ask me why it´s like that in the original design. I think it was just a safety protection for the engine to prevent that both electric brake and traction where active at the same time. If you see the 422/425 EMUs combined lever it has the brake range, then 0 (would be the same as off for the locomotives) and then min and rest of traction ranges, so it follows the same approach which is quite frequent in the german electric engines. Talent 2 is the exception. It has only a 0 position and then the traction or the brake ranges. So, if you don´t see the blue arch in the power indicator at the screens engine is not generating any traction and you should pull lever the off and then forward again. Cheers
Hey Geloxo, As you can see in the video and as confirmed by others earlier, it occurs even when the throttle is off and the breaks are fully released. The bug only applies to the DB 146 that is included in MSB, not the other variant from RSN.
Yeap, I was editing my post when you replied, sorry. If there´s a bug I don´t know. What I meant is that even without any bugs you won´t get traction after brakes were released if you don´t come back to the off position. Cheers
