Db Br 187 Update Planned?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by shamanspark, Nov 17, 2021.

  1. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    What fixes are being worked on?
     
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  2. colinL

    colinL Well-Known Member

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    skyhook- sean thanks for your info again. Don't get me wrong, didn't wanna sound like a LOVE in the recent post, but we'd all love to start properly using the 187 as its a beautiful loco.
     
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  3. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Untill the Vectron comes along :)
     
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  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps April 1 wasn't the best day to post this?
     
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  5. Bertil Persson

    Bertil Persson Active Member

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    I asked Matt on a stream and he didn't have the exact into, but said there was work going on. Hope he's right. If I'm able I'll try to get an answer on the next roadmap chat, as Adam probably will show up.
     
  6. The_Drunken_Engineer

    The_Drunken_Engineer Active Member

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    I hate to be negative but if they released the BR187 in such a broken state, a single train, why would I buy an entire route? Will it be broken and unplayable while they work for six months on fixing the BR187? I was wondering why DTG allows this then I remembered the Boston Sprinter route's safety system is hooped as well and nothing has been done. I really hope after the Spirit of Steam no more releases come out until all the previous issues are fixed.
     
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  7. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    I mean, if you fudged a single loco DLC and put it out with obvious issues, why would we trust you to put out a full route DLC with any quality? Its being worked on, like no production support? I am a software dev and we prioritize production issues as soon as we release, particularly if it makes the release unusable. It just shows your company has the wrong priorities. You can keep making routes but once the trust in your work is gone, y'all are not going to get it back easily.
     
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  8. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. With this way of handling buggy products, Skyhook is no longer trustworthy for me. To take the money, to bring a knowingly faulty product on the market and to leave the people with these errors alone, is an insolence and therefore I buy nothing more from this company.
     
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  9. JBViper

    JBViper Well-Known Member

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    On October 14, 2021, during the stream presented by Sam, we were told that Skyhook Games was already working on a fix for the AFB issues (not to mention all the other blocking bugs). Five and a half months later, we still have nothing. As far as I'm concerned, until the promises are fulfilled on BR 187, no purchase of their new DLC.
    Having my own company, I know the commitments I have with my customers and if they trust me, it's because if they have a problem, I solve their problem first (especially when they have paid!) before concentrating on another project.
    DTG is the owner of the TSW license and should have required Skyhook Games to fix BR 187 before any further DLC.
     
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  10. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    This is a big part - it is Skyhook's mistake, but DTG's problem. Their name is all over the game. These hurt their public view even if made by someone else.
     
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  11. SpDrS42

    SpDrS42 Member

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    What is being pulled off here by Skyhook Games can hardly be surpassed in terms of audacity. Constantly there are only monosyllabic "news", which, however, are only about the sound.
    The DLC was released on 14th October 2021. Since then, there has not been a single update for the flawed product. The week after next is 14th April 2022. Such a processing time (if you can even use the word work, there is no work being done on it) is unserious. We are not talking about an Excel spreadsheet with a few commands, I realise that. But we are not talking about a NASA Mars mission either. The problems are ignored, sat out and that's it.

    I recommend that customers do not buy another product from this company until all the bugs in the BR 187 have been fixed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
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  12. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I certainly won’t be rushing to buy Horseshoe Curve - which is a shame.
     
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  13. PBrogaard

    PBrogaard Active Member

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    Another neat feature about having the worst rated product in the game in its current state this long after release is, that players - like me - who often buy DLC despite it having even mediocre to bad reviews solely because one trusts it will eventually get updates, simply won’t stand up for it anymore. Personally my loyalty to TSW DLC as a whole wears off. Especially after this product’s lack of life cycle seriousity - which is a term I just invented. Like the terrible sounds of the 187. We see huge TS products getting more love after release than this. Single. Loco.

    If nothing else be honest about it - oi, this of our products is really not that well done other than the 3D model (which is stunning, I will give you that) and we won’t fix it for a year, we are very sorry.

    If you keep this way of managing a reputation, Skyhook is even well off the “Only buy at a discount” list.
     
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  14. al.

    al. Member

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    I was wondering wether the 187 will also get a more glossy kind of finish as it appears irl, right now the locomotive seems a bit too matte.
     
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  15. Bertil Persson

    Bertil Persson Active Member

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    This was reassuring for me. I'll keep on waiting.
     
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  16. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Active Member

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    So I watched tonight's stream, and someone asked about the DB BR 187 update. The chap from Skyhook said that there was no news. Let me translate this: since they made a start on Horseshoe Curve, they haven't touched the loco. Or maybe I'm being pessimistic. Probably another 3-4 months or maybe more before it gets updated (if ever).
     
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  17. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Don't want to be pessimistic, but I think it's more likely DTG will finally release another modern German freight loco (for example a Vectron), which will be better and will have all the up to date features way before Skynook touches the BR187, basically killing a big part of the appeal of the loco.
     
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  18. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    I think I heard from someone that the new German route would be all new rolling stock or locos not sure however
     
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  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Duisburg Utrecht via Zevenaar 189 with C-Akv couplers or Hauptstrecke Rosenheim Innsbruck HRI ÖBB1116 1016 1216 DB BR101 with IC Cab Car DB BR193 ÖBB 4746 4744. Vbf Hall in Tyrol ÖBB 1063/1163 Shunter.
     
  20. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Pure speculation...
     
  21. leospielt#6870

    leospielt#6870 Member

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    That is highly unlikely… I think SKA was the latest route with all new rolling stock and the Talent 2 wasn‘t even new to TSW. DCZ, DRA, HHL, HMA (ICE 3 is basically ICE 3M) have all had 0-1 entirely new trains and I doubt that they will break that trend…

    I‘m wondering where you would‘ve heard something like that
     
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  22. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Just gonna qoute this from discord >>>
    anonymous said earlier that one of the routes he is working on has alll new locos
    I know the name but not saying it of the person
     
  23. leospielt#6870

    leospielt#6870 Member

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    If we’re talking about the same thing some of that was said on April 1st and I don’t think it is about the next DTG route
    But one can speculate and hope, right
     
  24. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Good work with the Horseshoe Curve. I dont regret my purchais. Enjoy the route a lot.

    I have a question: is there any chance the 187 gets updated with TSWs todays standard of the 3 Braking modes "p,g,r", which are functional since riesa dresden for german routes and rolling stock?

    I asume the loco needs work from scratch anyway. Going the extra mile here would be a huge advertisement booster for you skyhook.
     
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  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm......
     
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  26. DTG JD

    DTG JD Staff Member

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    We have a short update on the 187 in next week's Roadmap.

    To manage expectations, Audio improvements are a longer-term goal, and safety systems are the Skyhook team's current focus.
     
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  27. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    That's really good news, whilst audio improvements are needed, safety systems have to be the priority as it's a gameplay breaking issue. So top marks to Skyhook for getting the priorities right IMO
     
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  28. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I'd be this optimistic, both are long overdue for fixing. And it being a focus now doesn't mean it getting fixed, supposedly 187's problems have been worked on for some time.

     
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  29. anarchy99

    anarchy99 Active Member

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    I agree. Safety systems are essential and we have all been patiently waiting to see them functioning correctly. Hopefully the short update in next week's Roadmap will provide a positive insight.
     
  30. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Focus? This DLC has been on the market for half a year and they haven't bothered to make sure that the buyer gets the product he can expect. The length of time that has passed without anything happening suggests to me that you had no interest in fixing this quickly. I have rarely seen such a customer-unfriendly approach. To now talk about the sound being a "long term" problem is a slap in the face for any buyer. This alone is the reason for me not to buy any more products from this developer, because he obviously doesn't care about the customer after he has paid money.
     
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  31. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Quite fascinating how one single modder was able to create a decent sound experience within a week and the company which sells the product isn't able to do so within... a year most likely :D
    Of course this doesn't stop selling the product, does it?

    Video game development 202x in a nutshell...
     
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  32. JBViper

    JBViper Well-Known Member

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    Let's hope that this long wait for a correction will be beneficial to the buyers of the D-day. For example, Rivet Games had given us a nice free scenario on BR 204 and I had seen on the Rivet forum that they are planning 2 more new scenarios for Luzern-Sursee.
    Fingers crossed that Skyhook Games has the same goal of customer recognition and loyalty.
     
  33. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    There is a huge difference in creating a mod which may or may not work and developing something where you at least check that it will work on a fair range of computer systems and platforms. You may have seen what happened to the sky mod LondonMidland created and the trouble it was to make it work in game properly. I still think the devs should fix things faster and I firmly believe they could organize the work processes far better than they don, but you should not underestimate the technical complexity of software development in general and this game specifically.
     
  34. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Whilst valid, Skyhook released a very poor piece of content, and subsequently did not fix, and released new content.

    I’m sure most will view that as a “required business model”, however the only thing that Skyhook’s DLC & actions have done for me, is completely put me off their content, which is why I own none of it.

    I would love the 187, the TRAXX series are among my favourite locos out there, however to release any unit with the on board systems in the condition that they are, is unacceptable. To be frank, I find the sound unacceptable too, it’s one thing for them to be (allegedly) unable to source correct sounds, but to use an already broken sound file, when a new, fixed & improved version exists, that to me is just ridiculous.

    The worst thing is that DTG must of known the state the loco was in, and still allowed it to release.

    For all the issues TSW has, the BR 187 is a very good example of a summary for the issues with developmental decisions.
     
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  35. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    TBH even if Skyhook had fixed it on day 2, chances are it wouldn't have been released yet, look at Rapid Transit PZB still broken despite a fix being completed months ago, I understand that the G6 has a broken service which TSG fixed on the day of release which is still waiting on testing and release.

    From Skyhooks perspective were they better focusing on HSC knowing that there's zero test slots available for a 187 fix even if they had made one. I assume DTG have now given them a test slot and possible release slot to coincide. Or I'd very much hope that's th case
     
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  36. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I tried to continue the journey yesterday but was immediately reminded why I quit and wait/hope for a patch... oh boy ...
     
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  37. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I fully agree with your critics on the way this DLC was built. My comment refers the the the comparison of a private hobbyist creating a mod for one platform without any formal responsibility for the quality and a game developer who is held accountable for the product and must be sure that at leats it will not crash or make the game crash and some other unforgivable mistakes.
     
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  38. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    Good news for the 187 systems. I pray they will one day fix the Cane Creek AC4400CW reversed bogie and the HSC ES44AC incomplete bogie frames.
     
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  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It would probably take them a year to fix something that is so minor to be honest
     
  40. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    If there are problems with a product, they should be fixed immediately. You owe that to the buyer. Not only because he paid money for it and got a defective product, but also for the future. Dissatisfied customers will think very carefully about whether or not they buy the next DLC. And if they do, then for what price. This behavior also encourages waiting for discounts.

    Waiting half a year and more for fixes is completely unacceptable. Things are fundamentally wrong. As a customer, I don't have to care why this is the case. You just expect a working product, because that's what you paid for.

    I see slight improvement in the last DLC, which got unexpectedly fast updates. I hope they continue that, but yes, I also know that there are still so many bugs in all the DLC that they will probably never all be fixed.
     
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  41. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    Still to this day this DLC has 81% negative reviews on steam, shame on them. For a serious company the priority would have been to clean up their image.
     
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  42. jamesthepershing

    jamesthepershing Active Member

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    LONG TERM? It was released in Oc-to-ber. You can't get much longer term than that. It's outright outrageous that PAYING customers have had to wait this long for, not a release, but a FIX that makes it PLAYABLE and god knows how long we'll have to wait for some sounds that don't make it sound like something it isn't. No one forced them to release it in October, but if they choose to the least they could do is deliver a finished product. Very dissatisfied with SHG.
     
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  43. jamesthepershing

    jamesthepershing Active Member

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    Rivet games showed no recognition and loyalty. The 204 (150, Arosa...) is as broken as it can get physics-wise.
     
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  44. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Technically speaking, the 204 is that much fictional in the way it powers, that it would need a complete rebuilt. So it's more than unlikely the 204 will ever get better.
     
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  45. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

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    is the BR 187 still buggy or is the update out since april roadmap announce ?
     
  46. tsw2

    tsw2 Active Member

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    Not going to touch this even in a sale until the issues are all fixed.
     
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  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. The 187 is I believe the only DLC I have chosen not to buy on "hopelessly borked" grounds, rather than simply "not interested." If it were in an acceptable state, even if only up to the MSB-variant 185, I would want it. But it isn't.
     
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  48. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    same here, i want all the German addons as i only drive German trains,
    i am only missing a couple of shunters (as i'm not that much into shunting tbh) and the tharandter rampe route.....

    and the 187 loco, i don't want to support something that is so broken and the company that made it not being bothered to fix things on it.... they seem to have a 'take it or leave it' attitude, so i'm gonna leave it.
     
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  49. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

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    i got the BR 187 and i installed the 2 mods which are avaible...so now i wait for an official update and please make the track sounds louder (clik clak )^^ @ DTG
     
  50. Pipe

    Pipe Active Member

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    It´s the only german DLC I don´t have, based on the sad 187 stories. What I find so funny is the fact, that some bean counter stubbornly insists in keeping it´s price. At every sale, on and on, the 187 price is steady as a rock, not one penny down.
    It must sell well, I suppose.
     

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