Db Br Class 423 On Ska?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by ILied, Mar 28, 2021.

  1. ILied

    ILied Active Member

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    I’ve noticed in real life on SKA, there’s a S Bahn line S12 that runs in peak hours from Düren to Köln Hbf with the DB BR Class 423, which is the S Bahn train in HMA. Is there space in the timetable for the S12 services?
     
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  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    This has been brought up before. In fact, the S12, S13 and S19 all run Koln-Duren or Koln-Horrem, and all use the 423. The 422 is simply the wrong train, but it was layered into SKA because it already existed (from RRO), whereas the 423 (from HMA) didn't yet exist when SKA was released. Up until now, DTG have not retrofitted layers for newer trains into older routes.
     
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  3. ILied

    ILied Active Member

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    Thanks for letting me know! I wonder if Adam and his team will do this when they get to SKA and use the 422 for those with only RRO and the 423 for HMA.

    And to confuse things further, the same trains are in HRR but weren’t layered in, instead RRO.
     
  4. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I think one issue is that the interior is unique to München, and on the outside there is München written aswell, could be weird
     
  5. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Unless they de brand the livery
     
  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Layering never changes the livery or anything else about the 'borrowed' rolling stock: it's taken as-is.
     
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  7. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    unless it gets re-used in an additional paid content pack I highly doubt we well get a new livery for an existing train just for layer purposes...
     
  8. TheRealisticAussie

    TheRealisticAussie New Member

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    A mod replacing the DB BR 422 with the DB BR 423 would be nice. I'm surprised that no one has done it yet.
     
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  9. irFlouz

    irFlouz Active Member

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    Afaik it was tried before but it caused the game to crash for some reason. I haven't tried it myself though.
     
  10. TheRealisticAussie

    TheRealisticAussie New Member

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    Really, that's a shame. Hopefully, someone can work it out someday.
     
  11. kuchen0125

    kuchen0125 Active Member

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    Please no S-Bahn Munich on the S19. No. The Munich S-Bahn has a special paint and interior that is only available in Munich
     
  12. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    So have the 422s from SBahn Rhein Ruhr wich operate the S Bahn in SKA in Game, but they should be from the S Bahn Cologne.
    At least it would be the right EMU, and if we're talking about a Mod that brings the 423 to Cologne, then nobody is forced to have another wrong livery on the SKA S Bahn
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Again, layering CANNOT CHANGE LIVERIES. If SKA used the HMA 423s, they would be S-Bahn Munchen 423s. Just as with the ubiquitous Dostos: no matter where you operate them, the markings say they belong to DB Regio Sudost and are based in Magdeburg. Properly, every RB and RE in HMA should be marked DB Regio Bayern and carry the Bahnland Bayern markings, but they don't.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    Yes I know, what I was trying to say was, if the current train is in the ,,wrong" (The only difference is the other city name after the S Bahn) Livery, why would it bother some people if there would be another train on the S Bahn Köln services, which has also not the S Bahn Köln Livery, but is at least the right EMU?
     
  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Okay, that makes sense. I agree.

    The thing is, at least to date DTG have never gone back and created layers in an earlier route to incorporate a later train. Now, it would be very cool were they to do that, but to add layers into an existing route means rebuilding the whole timetable. HMA was built with the timetables for 146s and 425s and freight already built in.
     
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  16. kuchen0125

    kuchen0125 Active Member

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    The differences between S-Bahn Munich 423 and S Bahn Cologne 423 are too big. The BR425 is a standard edition that can be found almost everywhere. For example, there is no difference between the interior of Rhein Ruhr 422 and S Bahn Cologne 422
     
  17. ILied

    ILied Active Member

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    I think for S19, they could add something that gives you the layer because of RRO if you only have that, otherwise with HMA, it could then substitute for the right train. It doesn’t seem difficult to implement to give you an option depending on the routes available. So it’s not adding a layer as such, changing a layer.
     
  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That does make sense. In fact, some time ago I posted as to how conceptually it would be done- currently a route checks to see what other DLC is installed and activates whatever locos it finds that it has a timetable (bespoke or substitution) for; all it would take would be a tweak to the routine so that it checks for HMA first, and if not found then checks for RRO.
     
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  19. ILied

    ILied Active Member

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    Now as well, it’s perfectly possible for someone to own HMA but not RRO. It would be useful if we could get the most relevant layers for the routes.

    We’ll see what happens with Hamburg-Lübeck.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
  20. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If it could substitute in, that would be as far as they could go. Then you get to choose what you drive for the services.

    Changing the layer for it can’t really happen for several reasons, each with big problems associated with it...

    Firstly, if they were to replace the train that the services use, some players would lose the services. That can’t happen.
    Secondly, they can’t have the same layer having two trains as a default, or two layers for the same services, as you would end up with overlapping layers. There is no system where the game searches for the most appropriate train, and they aren’t going to make one for such a small issue as this.
    Thirdly, if they did introduce a system, some players may not want the train changing, they might want to keep the train they have now, that would mean adding a menu choice to the new system too. More work that’s just not going to happen for this layer.
    Lastly, the timetable might act differently with a different train, which means testing the route all over again. This may be why even substitution can’t happen.

    The biggest thing is that there is absolutely no motivation for DTG to be messing with a timetable layer that already works and is fine for most people. Adding new systems is a lot of work and we know they can’t do the work without it being paid for. It needs to generate revenue. This is basically a free layer people get for using a train they might already have or get in the future, and it doesn’t warrant new systems being added to the game to change it. If the system of how layers is altered in future updates, and it facilitates this kind of change with the choice for the player, it could possibly be retrospectively introduced on existing routes but that’s a long way off if it does happen. It’s not going to happen for this one layer.

    The best you can hope for is that it can be added as a substitution option.
     
  21. ILied

    ILied Active Member

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    I appreciate your point and is well argued.

    However, DTG in the past have added tech to a DLC to ‘test’ it and then add it to routes when the need arises. PIS is a great example of this. HMA added more accurate screens (and one’s that display information), then LGV and SEHS have drastically improved on it, especially in SEHS to give us train formations & operator. These are then being retrospectively added to ECW, MSB & RT. It’s possibly a route will do this in the future for layers and then other routes gain the functionality after.

    Although I think this might be something to ask Matt on an open Q&A stream.
     
  22. kuchen0125

    kuchen0125 Active Member

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    We need a BR423 with an interior like the BR422. Crazy S-Bahn Munich BR423 in Cologne, very crazy. S-Bahn Cologne BR423 are like the BR425 - very old inside and out.
     
  23. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    They have said that it was technically possible if I am not mistaken, but if teh services are not accounted for in the timetable, adding a whole layer means reworking and testing the complete timetable. They need to lay down the routings and have the dispatcher working for the new and the existing services together.
    Then there is the substitution system, but that only works if the unit that is used is the same "type" in terms of loco, 4 car EMU, 6 car EMU and so on. if that is not matching, it is not possible to add a substitution. This has become evident when TSG said that they might need to make use of the alternate tiemtable function added with the diesel legends pack for HMA, in order to make his DB BR 420 playable there. Apparently the game can't handle the 420 as substitution for the 423 because they don't have matching number of cars.

    One interesting bit of information, HRR has an ICE route that has been laid out already and is usable in scenario planner, which might indicate that this line has been implemented into the route even though there is no rolling stock moving on it - which could then again imply that the upcoming DB BR 101 will use these exact routes and therefore won't be as complicated to add to the timetable than it would be to add it on other routes that don't have such a line already included in dispatcher functionality.
     
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  24. ILied

    ILied Active Member

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    Matt did say around launch, the paths were there for S-Bahn services on SKA, despite RRO not being in preserved collection at the time (the locos were available in scenario planner being the same in HRR which did come at the same time as SKA).
     
  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    However, these obstacles don't really block the present case, SKA using 423s from HMA in place of the 422s borrowed from RRO. The timetable already exists, you'd just be using a different train on the same schedule. And conveniently the 422 and 423 are both four-car units, often doubled up as 4+4s.
     
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  26. ILied

    ILied Active Member

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    They might even be the same train on the outside. The only difference is the build date and then the interior, although I think for what we want to do the interior isn’t important.

    Then the question is whether there will be correct PIS if it’s done. Currently the train will display “Nicht Einsteigen” (Do not board) when there isn’t destination data available for the train.
     
  27. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    If the 423 were to be added it would have to be the DB S-Bahn Koln DB BR 423. The DB S-Bahn Koln DB BR 423 has a different interior, pis, and livery compared to the DB S-Bahn Munich DB BR 423. Adding the DB S-Bahn Munich DB BR 423 to ska would be unrealistic as that train runs on a completely different S-Bahn Network so technically a new train would have to be made
     
  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    If that's the standard, then it's never going to happen. DTG are not going to a) create a whole new train for SKA just to give it away free, or b) make a paid DLC which just substitutes in for a train everyone already has, because nobody would buy it. In other words, the only option on the table is layering in the Munchen 423 as-is, take it or leave it.

    There is a theoretical future option, but only theoretical: if a future Koln-area route includes S-Bahn 423s, those conceivably might be layered in-- but to date, DTG have never layered a newer loco into an older route.
     
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