Dear DTG, Alex, I doubt you would see this but I request if you do please at least consider it. Steam is great, Modern is good but we need a change, I have had enough of all these modern addons, You don't even batter an eye to steam locomotives, the workhorses that brought us the railway we have now. You don't listen to us, we want steam. So please if you want us to buy your stuff give us some stuff other than modern. We need to embrace our heritage not just forget it. Rail 200 is approaching quickly now. There is no better time to announce a steam addon, or at least just a few locomotives. (AND NOT TTTE) Something we can actually drive like a real locomotive, something that will relight the fire of steam. We need steam back. Not just for us but for our heritage we are slowly forgetting. Don't let the fire of steam die out. Please. Give it some more. Don't send the idea of steam to the scrapyard. PRESERVE IT. SAVE IT. RELIGHT IT. We need to keep our heritage and remember our older side of railways, not just modern... Thanks.
No, they killed Steam in TSW. Over promised and left us with what's left : a pretty incomplete and broken simulation of what a Steam locos actually are.
Matt did say that Modern sells better, but he also said that suggestions and surveys play a major role, so there is still hope if people want it.
Why would you address this " request " to a moderator? They have no part in the decisions about what DTG will or will not make.? I generally agree with the sentiments in your post but it would be better to write directly to the Executive(s) who make decisions about which products to build. Or perhaps, use the suggestions forum, though that's something of a graveyard for proposals about steam traction.
Agree completely, but never going to happen. DTG are chasing the younger generation for sales, and they only like one-handle DMU/EMUs. Give the kiddies a class 101 DMU and they cry "It's too hard to drive. This is trash!"
We are screwed as a species if the kids can’t handle a very simple challenge. Honestly this game really needs to get steam again or this game is doomed to a very slow death
DTG, as with any business, needs to make what sells to survive. Maybe fans of steam, or any aspect of TSW they feel is underrepresented, could work to convince the masses of its appeal and get them interested in trying it out, rather than trying to convince DTG to keep spending time and money developing something they already know isn't working. Doing nothing but complaining about DTG not being willing to commit seppuku and "kiddies" who "can't handle a challenge" isn't exactly going to win anyone over.
If you want steam, write a very strong case for it and get as much support as possible. Probably the only way it'll happen at this point.
Let's say there's a Games company out there called...Loverail games. They see there's a gap in the market for Rail sim on consoles, so they make games and DLCs, this company then makes Product A, Product, B, Product C, Product D and at a later date Product E. Now, they decide they won't use third parties so it's all kept inhouse, Product E is eventually released but is so broken they abandon it despite many pleas from their customers to bring it back and repair it. They ignore those pleas. Eventually they realise that Product B sells more than any other product, so they drop Product A all together with a token release every year. Eventually Products C and D are dropped as well to focus on product B, Third Parties eventually sign up and make Products C and D to wide acclaim. Loverail still refuses to do any more products A, C, D and E stating that Product B is the best seller despite not providing any evidence. Eventually, other companies realise there's a market and start selling games with Products A,C,D and eventually E. It's a rough start but they get there in the end. The player base leaves Loverail games and spends money on the new companies, Loverail are suddenly losing money from other products because they chose to ignore their customers and only focused on Product B, so despite Product B still selling, they aren't making as much money as before and eventually....close shop. If only they had listened to all their customers instead of just one group. You see where I'm going with this?
I do but unfortunately due to publishing rights for consoles everything has to go through Lovetail so they make a piece of the pie on everything made by them or others. No they haven't provided physical proof but if Lovetail is as greedy as people say they are why would they make it up and only build modern traction if others sell better? People keep saying that JT routes sell but since we actually haven't got the numbers who actually knows on these forums where is our proof. Personally I haven't bought either route from them and have no interest in older routes/ content. Having grown up in Canada I have no fondness for BR Blue, and for my career I drove relatively modern traction so thats what interests me personally. I want to drive what I would see if I visited the country recently. Older NA content I might be more inclined to purchase as that would be nostalgic. They are never going to please everbody and there is no way to cater to entire mass. So they pick what they feel they do best and as with TSC 3rd parties pickup the slack.
That's because the vast majority of a modern DMU/EMU around the world are one-handle. These people may not mind playing with independent traction and brake handles, but it is rare on modern trains. This isn't DTG's fault or the players who like modern routes.
It makes me wonder what the demographics are for TSW. The older ones will want a mix between old and new The less older mostly new i guess?
It's so strange that people need "proof" that a company is telling the truth about what sells and what doesn't, as if the company's continued survival isn't proof enough. It's also strange that people can, with a straight face, accuse a company of ignoring what the customers want in favor of chasing the money, as if that isn't a complete contradiction.
So just because a company has existed for a few years means it'll never go out of business? Boy are you in for a shock when you find out how business works.
Tecnically it can go bust at anytime but if last years fiscal results posted by Pullup are any to go by they doubled their revenue from the year prior. And are nowhere close to being in jeopardy of closing up shop. So buckle up it's going to be a long rough road ahead if you like this game.
Steam will never be popular in this game as it appeals to a very small percentage of the player base. I personally am not a fan of it either. The era I find more interesting to drive is from the early 80’s up until the current year. I like seeing locations I’m familiar with when I’m driving a train, a 1920’s setting would feel alien to me and I might as well be driving a fictional route.
Actually it would be popular if they actually beeping fixed the physics and added well love steam locomotives like the A4, and not to be that guy but you literally have a ttte profile pic of James the steam engine so I’m confused do you like steam or not. the main reason why steam slowly fell off was because they promised to fix a lot steam issues but a few months later cancelled it all, if those fixes would have happened steam would have popped in sales. If a ton people didn’t like steam we would have never had preserved railways with preserved steam locomotives on them, and we sure as hell wouldn’t have steam rail tours. everyone that says the steam % is low is just blind, because to one look at suggestions and you will see a ton of steam locomotives suggests, probably about the same amount of demand as class 55 and intercity 225. and too add to how popular steam is look at all the models, there’s a ton more steam then diesel and electric. If we could have one more steam route made by a good team this time with at least one new steam train, i would bet all of my money (£800) on it being one of the highest selling routes of that year. we need real steam and not more ttte, we need an actual challenge compared to the modern one handle EMUs that even a baby could drive. I could go around asking people what their favourite type of train is and most would say **steam**. the polar express wouldn’t be half as good if didn’t use a steam train, hell we wouldn’t even have all these modern trains if it wasn’t for steam!!!! anyways I probably went a bit overboard here but man I hate anyone that doesn’t see the beeping obvious demand for steam, also writing this at 3 in the morning so if anything doesn’t make sense blame that, To end it, if I got a nickel every time someone requested steam content I would have enough money to fund multiple steam routes.
That has no more to do with anything I said than ignoring what customers want has to do with how business works.
If you want steam and are sure it would be popular enough to be a commercial success then compile a team and get to work creating it.
We are a very small minority on this forum. Most players are extremely casual and want something uber easy to drive, and unless that’s Thomas you can say goodbye to any dreams of steam.
In some degree, yes, as most of the hardcore train enthusiasts use this site regularly, but a lot of consumers don’t. The problem with what you said though is data doesn’t lie, steam is not profitable for DTG. You can say to me that DTG did a blotch job on how they implemented steam into TSW, and I’d humbly agree with you. At the end of the day though money talks and steam never produced that. I perfectly understand that (challenging gameplay). See I get that when I drive the Class 101, that has recently become one of my favourite locos in the game now thanks to the gear system. I really do hope Steam does come into fruition again as I can tell you’re really passionate about it. More people need to keep requesting Steam so DTG will take notice. I know there’s an audience for steam, but IMO I don’t think it’s big enough, I hope I’m wrong though.
Part of the issue is how steam was done. For starters they should have tested the waters with a small loco add on for West Somerset. But instead, they indulged Paul Jackson’s whim and did SoS which, with the best will in the world, Crewe to Liverpool was a fairly prosaic choice for any route, let alone the first steam era one. Then it was left to wither and die, took over a year to fix the AI SPAD’s which prevented many services in the timetable from being completed. Then we got Peak Forest. A spectacular and lovely route but went from nowhere to vaguely somewhere. As a result it like SoS had an emasculated timetable and the one hoped for follow up (the Class 104 etc. pack) has evaporated into vapourware. Finally, Flying Scotsman, quite possibly the worst implementation of steam traction in the game running artificial railtours on modern day routes. So the reason steam in TSW failed is entirely down to DTG, not the customers. Poor choices, not even following their own LAMPOIL standards it seems, then a distinct lack of commitment to making good on the crass errors with physics and proper coal/water consumption etc.
Last night British Locomotives Studio announced their latest route for TSC - The Spa Valley Railway. Yet again I am irritated and frustrated that that old game is getting more love and attention with Steam/Vintage content while TSW gets nothing. Why can’t DTG make development more accessible for these 3rd party devs to come over to TSW and create that kind of content many of us would love. Surely it makes commercial sense to do this as well.
It’s also the fact becoming a third is difficult and they tend to avoid steam content in the pc editor tab, like there’s so many mods for steam which deserve to be third parties
Have they applied to join the TSW 3rd party program? do they even have the inclination or time to learn Unreal? It’s not as simple or as straight forward as saying we want to release XYZ on TSW unfortunately.
That’s like saying does a software developer have the inclination to build their software on the latest version of windows instead of staying on Windows XP. In this case it’s like Microsoft aren’t giving the developer the tools he needs to build on the latest version of windows.
Accessible doesn't mean simple. It's up to the 3rd parties to say yes and be willing to deal with a huge learning curve. Unreal engine is not simple to use and 3rd parties. Dtg can only do so much. It's up to 3rd parties to be willing to take on a challenge and see the financial viability of it
Going off what I hear from the US side of things, the main complaint with the Caltrain set of F40s, as well as the ALP-46 for NJT is the manually lapped brakes, similarly the brakes on the German stock on Linke Rheinstrecke also have a bit of a learning curve as to how to apply them. By comparison, the newer US locomotives (pretty much all of them) have much easier automatic brake systems to use, which is why most preferred driving the MP36 with the Baby Bullet, as well as the Metrolink locomotives. But atleast it's still 2 seperate handles, so you need to still be aware of what is coming to stop accurately; cutting the throttle and applying brakes. Compared to pretty much all UK/most Modern German stock...2 handles is too hard for these kids... With the one handlers, EMUs in general, but especially those with one handle, I can doze off, realize the stop is coming up in less than half a kilometer and, still at full speed, accurately come to a stop, albeit roughly, accurately. The saving grace for German stock is the extreme safety systems. As someone who loved the F40s from Caltrain and the Gallery Cars, because it felt like...driving..well..a train, you can imagine how boring I find most EU stock. DTG won't, as they have said themselves, but older locomotives will be a thousand times more engaging and entertaining to drive.
Except it's true. Dtg can't force developers to do things against their will. They can only do so much and it's completely up to the 3rd party devs to take the next step and dtg are required to respect that. It's also true game development is not easy. Have you tried using unreal engine and building an entire dlc? Only then would you know how much work it actually is.
There are multiple threads trying to explain to those who won't hear how difficult it is to develop a dlc as a third party - including from existing developers, such as TSG. Please bear in mind that those with such skills are likely already to have a main job in game development, or something similar. As the old saying has it - why work for a company for 8 hours a day when you can work for yourself for 14. Been there, done that - tough if you have a family.
I never understood this sentiment, since even older trains are pretty easy to drive. The only trains that were remotely challenging was the Steam engines, because some of them just bugged out or the BR101 Expert Series. I think, that the reason why younger people prefer modern trains, is that they never actually lived in the times where something like a Class 101 DMU was in service in their area. Therefore, there wouldn't actually be that much interest in simulating it for most people who want to drive a train they saw pass by in real life. Unless they're trying to explore new things, it's just "an old train" and not much else. The personal experience with this game, is that I always leaned towards trains that I've been able to see IRL. Often times, those were modern EMUs and Locomotives. From what I know, there's alot more going on with them that unfortunately isn't implemented in the game, which is why the Expert Series BR101 ETCS is one of my favorite Add-ons. Now put me, in some old BR Blue Locomotive from an era long before my time, in a country i havent stepped foot in much and my interest is gone. Its a train ive never seen before, a train thats long gone aside from maybe a couple of companies still keeping them in service or heritage events. Throttle and braking, takes very little adjustment to with how DTG have simulated them in TSW. But why would someone if they just aren't interested in it? To some, it might seem challenging but it really isn't. It might just be that it's incompatible with alot of people's priorities and desires for what they want to drive in TSW. Steam Trains, may have the chance to be the exception due to their rather majestic appearance and history. Alot of people have expressed enthusiasm for them in TSW, with DTG unfortunately fumbling the bag and possibly contributing to the lack of demand from the average crowd for them. However, I don't think it'll really guarantee it's success if DTG were to come back to it. They're fun to drive for a little while, you will learn alot from them but the demand for them are somewhat low. A good approach probably would be to fix the physics for them so 3rd parties can properly simulated Steam trains.
