Demanding For Ecml Extension And Additional Content.

Look I ain’t no game developer or whatever the hell but I am disappointed yet temping to buy the ECML. A LOT OF ISSUES here.
1. No LNER Class 800, Class 91 and MK4 (in Oxford Blood), (and Class 43 and MK3).
2. NO KINGS CROSS TO EVEN LEEDS OR YORK.
3. Flying Scotsman with MK2???

My first issue is the rolling stock. I do not know when did they took make or take references of the class 801. If they had the green light from LNER and hitachi with making the 801. WHY NOT THE CLASS 800?? (as much as how only 2 operators are using it.) But it is at least the most BASIC bi-mode train that most TOCs is using currently. I.e Class 802. I don’t know can Class 801s do bi modes too but if they can they I am wrong about wanting class 800 in the game. However something that I personally think ISNT wrong I adding in the game are the Class 91s and MK4s (and Class 43s and MK3s). As of the time that the direct went live. LNER’s Class 91 and MK4 sets are still in operation. And sadly the Class 43 and MK3s are no long with LNER, which is why I included the () as they are retired. However why can’t they just reuse the current class 43 and mk3 model they have and make new interior for the model? If that isn’t possible then it’s understandable that the Class 43 and MK3 wasn’t added. However not adding the class 91 and MK4 is the one that annoys me the most. Again it’s still in operation with LNER when the direct went live. WHY did they not include it ??? I am sorry but having a more variety with driving trains is important in train simulation and when the route only has 2 trains (801 and 700). The only other train that actually runs along the announced section of the ECML is the Class 91. Which again still exist and take reference off. I don’t know why they can’t do that and don’t shout at me with licensing issue they can do it. I don’t care is it gonna come in as a DLC like the class 313/2 and even that I don’t mind buying. Class 91 and MK4 sets are WAY better than Class 80X family of trains comfort wise anyway and should be deserved to be put in the game.

Next routing. What the hell did they think it was a good idea to just include the Peterborough (honestly is more like Peterbruh in this case) and Doncaster section?? From the time of me posting this only last week I had a chance to take a class 91 and MK4 (for the first time) from London Kings Cross to Leeds calling at Peterborough, Doncaster, Wakefield Westgate and Leeds. What the crap is the point of the of just driving the Class 801 between 2 stations and NOTHING ELSE. NO SERVICE VARIATION WHATSOEVER. And let’s face it we are all annoyed at Kings Cross. GOD DAMN LONDON KINGS CROSS STATION. THE KEY STATION ON THE ECML NOT BEING ADDED TO THE ROUTE. Not only that, but after Doncaster, if you look on the map. It doesn’t even take long to get a train from Doncaster to Leeds or York (even better adding the depots at Leeds and York like Neville hill but this feels a bit of a stretch already). And hell if they do cover London Kings Cross to Leeds or York. Then they would’ve already covered almost half of the ECML. Another point is that Peterborough and Doncaster and in between 2 stations aren’t even big terminus stations for LNER. So what is the point of even including them in the first place just baffles me of their decision. You’re wrong for defending them for not doing the extra mile of trackage.

And this is a more questionable because why is DTG making flying Scotsman pull… MK2 carriages of all things ??????? They already have MK1 models why not use that??? To my knowledge anyway, Flying Scotmans had never pulled a set with full MK2s before, and even for a far stretch at best in a railtour train set, some MK2s are on the consists of MK1s for some unknown reason and what I can come up with is that the railtour company doesn’t have enough MK1 coaches to fill in the set. But still they use MK2 in game still question me their decision on doing so.

To conclude, ECML HEAVILY needs additional content, no matter is it free or paid DLC it’s needed. Extend the route from Peterborough to London Kings Cross and extending Doncaster to Leeds and York. As well as including Class 91 and MK4 set is a must (and with a more nitpicking with this, adding the Class 43 and MK3s with MTU engines in LNER (or virgin east coast) red and white livery). Plus I guess an addition with flying Scotsman hauling MK1 carriages be causing hauling MK2 carriages just seems and sounds wrong.

 

Please can people just stop going on unhinged rants about all this. This is a terrible summary and you haven’t stopped to think about any of it. There’s already posts for this. Go there and give your short summary AFTER you’ve had a proper think about it.

 

The thread title amused me so I clicked into it, then saw this wall of text.

Honestly if someone is so upset about it that they’d expend this kind of energy on displaying that upset, then you’d think they’d do it in a way that would have half a chance at being received by DTG.

No logical mind can honestly say that this type of post would be taken notice of by DTG.

 

I think it was about when these wall of text posts started up about how "bad" TSW3 was going to be that I took almost a year off these forums. The leaks that started up a few weeks ago brought me back. It feels like the same cycle is starting again lol.

 

They didn't put the Class 800 in because they only got access to the LNER 801 for the time being. Their preference was the 800, but they didn't get to it yet. They would like to add it in the future if they can.

The HST is no longer operated by LNER, so wouldn't be on here anyway.

 

I would like to counter by saying i'm personally 100% happy with the route of Doncaster to Peterborough.. not everything has to start and end in London (we already have London to Faversham, London to Ashford, London to Reading, London to Brighton...)

i'll admit i'm a little biased as i live on the route and know it inside out, but if anything that just makes me really excited for this as i know first-hand how amazing this route will be for the game.

maybe i'm a realist but i don't expect dtg to give us 100+ mile routes with 4+ trains in one release.. if somebody from dtg came up to me and offered me Doncaster to Peterborough with the Azuma, i'd have snapped their hand off, we finally get a long distance stretch of route with a variable calling pattern (some will run non stop, some will call only at Newark, some only at Grantham, and some at all stations).. ultimately i don't see the point of all the negative chat on this forum in general, i'm happy to give credit where it's due and i think dtg nailed it with this choice

 

Hi Katia I’ve got a question for you on this Doncaster to Peterborough is it just plain running or are there level crossings as well?

 

there are lots of level crossings on this route throughout, at least 5 between retford and doncaster (rossington, ranskill, torworth, sutton cum lound and botany bay), and loads more all the way down to peterborough too.. and there are pedestrian only foot crossings throughout too!

 

a flat level crossing (mentioned in the stream as the last one left) has been mentioned so they are their.

 

Can I ask what so different about the 800? I was so confused after reading the OP I had to look it up if I misread but it looks the same train to me.

I do understand there will be a difference between the two but I really wonder why it's so upsetting they chose the 801 over the 800?

 

Plenty of level crossings along the route. Around my local station (Retford) there's a number alone.

 

I completely agree with Katia above and actually this is my favourite section of the route with plenty of variety in the services. Not having the 225s is a shame but not out of the question as there was a point where there reliability was shocking so it won't damage the immersion too much. Not having the 800s too is a shame but the 801s made more sense to include as we have more of them. This is the section I wanted most so it is the best route possible to have in game for me. Posh to Cross is an incredibly dull section of line along with Donny to York so you're not missing out, though York or Leeds would have been nice to have.

Plenty of level crossings including a traditional hand operated one, bridges, tunnels, embankments and a flat crossing. It is a lovely section of line.

 

The 801 is purely EMU with a single powerpack to essentially give it a limp mode. The 800 is a Bimodal unit so it can be powered by either diesel or electric power, the number of engines depending on if it's a 5 or 9 coach unit. We have more 801s in real life than 800s.

 

ok, I understand the allure then. Still not disappointed

 

Same I am absolutely beaming about it!

 

Flying Scotsman coming with Mk2's is actually very realistic for the modern day railtour setting that they're going for.

As for all the extentions and extra trains, the answer to that is simple, dev time and cost.

 

There is a difference between a level crossing for cars to cross the railway track, and a track crossing as described in the DTG article where different railway tracks cross each other at the same level at Newark.
Mike.

 

An extension I would love is the Lincoln lines

 

totally agree with this, anyone who knows this part of the ecml well will understand why this is a really good section to choose

i feel london to peterborough would have been boring in the long run.. all lner services would be either non stop or call at stevenage only, just because you can layer class 700 etc doesn't automatically make it a better choice, if DTG get the timetable right on Peterborough-Doncaster this route has so much long-term playability.

also on level crossings (ie the ones where road meets rail at barriers/lights) there are loads on this route.. the 5 alone i mentioned previous between doncaster & retford, there's so many more.. from memory there's even one on approach to peterborough that is a level crossing with 6 tracks crossing in the same location, so a lot of variety on that front too

 

the basic difference is class 800 can run electric or diesel, class 801 electric only (well it can run on diesel but only in exceptional circumstances, never in regular service)

there are more class 801's than 800's in real life (and more 9 car sets than 5/10 car sets too)

the class 800's are needed for the non-electrified lines (so on services that branch off the ecml towards Lincoln, Hull, Aberdeen, Inverness and places like that)

there are only a few services per day (i think 4 to aberdeen - 1 of which starts in leeds so actually doesn't use this section; 1 per day to inverness, maybe around 5 or so to lincoln)

i'd personally like the lincoln services added to this route even if not 100% accurate (ie represented with class 801 in game whereas in real life it's class 800)

there's actually very little visual difference between class 800 & class 801.. the main difference is simply one can run on the diesel lines like lincoln, hull, inverness, aberdeen etc and the other is restricted to the actual mainline.. so london-leeds/york, newcastle, edinburgh & glasgow central.

hope that helps!

 

Yes a very iconic section of track.

As I have said elsewhere Posh to Cross is a complete borefest.

Way too many level crossings yes! The one you talk about is just outside Peterborough with, as you say, six tracks and I is the longest in the UK. The first after Peterborough, however is just before Helpston and is Woodcroft Crossing which is certainly very interesting, different and unique as it is still a hand operated crossing with traditional gates.

 

agree 100%, i've said for so long now that if we ever got the ecml i hoped it wouldn't be kgx-pbo, as it would honestly get boring very quick.. and from a gameplay perspective is frankly too similar to a route such as gwe (express train with no stops (or 1 stop max) and a commuter train..

we already have dlc like that, we have no dlc like doncaster-peterborough out there, it's so perfect as a choice.

and interesting about the hand level crossings too i didn't know that! There was one north of Doncaster at Shaftholme but that got replaced by a bridge a few years back, interesting to know there is still one in the peterborough area!

 

Yes I believe it is the only hand operated crossing left on a 125 mph section of mainline in the UK.

 

Would you like a partridge in a pear tree as well?

Your expectations left reality in the dust about three hours back. Four new trains? A 200-mile route including two (or three) major termini? Please give me your drug dealer's number, he obviously sells potent stuff.

 

Scotsman probably comes with MK2s not MK1s because there are already air braked MK2s in game whereas all of the MK1s are Vac (and the SOS ones have the unmodified windows). But anyway, its not inaccurate. West Coast have a fair few MK2s in their fleet and they use Scotsman on their tours a decent amount

 

I would have loved a Lincoln branch for the route, it would have been great with the recent MML DLC

 

Agreed a lovely little section of line, though would have needed an 800.

 

I don't get people's dislike for Peterborough-Doncaster.

Yes there is only one train, but apart from Retford, all the other stations open up other possibilities. (Retford does to an extent as I believe the low level is served by traina to/from Lincoln.)

I'd say it was a good starting point.

 

I don't want to get anyones hopes up but IF DGT wanted to make a modular route with future extensions, then this might be the perfect section to pick.

If you're thinking of making A + B + C route, making B first makes the most sense. That way players have a choice to buy A or C without being forced to buy an intermediate route DLC which they may not want.

Of course the risk is that people don't but it in the first place.

I have no information or serious expectation this will happen, just a potential justification for choosing this section rather than the north or south end section of the line.

 

What’s bro yapping about

 

Being a " furener " I have very little knowledge of this route, though I'm sure I traveled on it at some point in the last 50 years on one of my infrequent visits to the UK. I will wait in judgement until its release, and if it turns out to be LGV (UK), it can sit in the closet with the other unplayed routes. I'd like to be surprised by some interesting gameplay and AI traffic. Is the Azuma a one joystick push and run with a restricted windshield?

On a different note, starting a thread with the word " demand " is a surefire way to get the ignore tick from DTG or any company.

And when did this business of multi-paragraph ranting get so prevalent. It's common on a lot of threads at the moment. Most of it's gibberish. I guess these folks missed the class on conciseness. As someone suggested, they should compensate DTG for the wasted bandwidth.

 

Yes and no, lovely big windshield.

 

Perhaps OP has imparnumerophobia?

 

Will the blood and custard coaches finally be added to SOS & PFR timetable services as well in TSW4?

 

This was a fun read. Demanding additions and extensive extensions to a route that isn't out yet . No chance any of these ideas would be implemented anyhow as they'd have to start building new parts of the route which is probably at the point near release not to mention building new locos from scratch less than a month to release

 

i must admit i really don't see why as soon as a route is announced.. there are so many comments along the lines of it should be extended here or there, or this loco should be a dlc for it.. don't get me wrong i get it and it would be nice but other than southeastern high speed, there has never been an extension to an existing route, it just doesn't happen.

in reality a route is announced and that's what you get, i personally think just enjoy it for what it is, as in all likeliness that's all it will ever be.. and i for one am fine with that.

 

WCR moment, they have maroon MK2 coaches for railtours.

 

Demanding things don't usually get them. If fact it usually has the opposite effect.

 

Married life teaches you that!

 

Phew another useless forum post

“Look I ain’t no game developer” is where you lost my interest

 

I want I want I want typical youth of today

 

800 is bi mode but has 5 engines along the train where the 801 only has one engine for emergencies or slow depot moves

 

I am probably the only one to Agree with you on what you said. Having the 91 would of been amazing and Also KGX would of just been stunning. KGX to Doncaster Would be amazing. Honestly. I actually really enjoyed reading your Thread, it shows you care. It was very well detailed, It was easy to read. And it is a boring section unfortunately. Having no terminus is a biggie for me. I love Terminating at stations then having a turnover time so I can do something for a bit and get back to it.

 

Its only recent that i learn that this route is somewhat based on another one from Train Sim Classic that is Peterbrough to York. And i am still mad that they didnt include York at all. They couldve also branch out to doing Leeds too, to fully make use of some of the available timetable mode runs with York and Leeds is ever included in this route. And honestly screw new trains. I think a lot of us would prefer the Class 91 and Mk4 too, just so there could be a contrast between a modern and old/classic electric train. Especially when the class 91 and mk4 dvt are about to retire or phase out at around 2027 (i hope the new trains would be delayed). So while DTG or any 3rd party developers have the time to grab refrences and make the model. They really need to do it NOW before they its too late and no references can be taken. (I get that there is also the HST but during the time the route takes place, pretty sure all hst is gone already on the ECML).

 

I like both the 80xs and the 91s. I think they can co-exist in the tsw4 ecml. I do agree with your point though about the timing - even in terms of getting real sounds. Personally, my thoughts would be even if they don't intend to make the loco just now they should gather their references and sounds so they have it when the time inevitably comes.

 

York was a missed opportunity, but I guess with only LNER it would be empty (well, empty-ish with no other train operators present).

They could have still included it and built off it I guess, but it is DTG we're talking about here.

 

Honestly i feel like most cases for DTG or any 3rd party developer are just either laziness or this "tight schedule" of theirs they have to keep. I am just saying, just get rid of this tight schedule and put in more effort in the right place and i am sure a route can be amazing. And hell having the class 91 and mk4 as an addon is still on a table for them to gain extra revenue.

 

Ah yes someone throwing a temper tantrum on the forums.... Like always.

 

If Dovetail wants to do another East Coast Mainline DLC they could do London's King Cross to Peterborough section and in the future if they came up with a method to merge the Peterborough to Doncaster section with the line to King Cross.