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Disappointed In The Attitude Of The Community

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by matthewbguilford, Jun 13, 2020.

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  1. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Are they really though?

    I know they have said they are and it's getting an upgraded UE engine, but and this is something only DTG has access to at this time, will it look drastically different to TSW2020?

    If you put the two side by side will you really be able to notice a big difference?

    TS1 to TSW, that was starting afresh and they are totally different. Anyone with any knowledge of both would be clearly able to tell you which was which.

    Somehow, other than maybe a few tweaks to the HUD, I don't think that they will be that different, but time will tell and we wait for the next output from DTG.
     
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  2. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    except they aren't. We already have datamine evidence that proves they are just updating existing code. I know that you and many others are under the impression that this will be an entire new game, but it won't be, only the title will be different. It'll be the same old TS2Prototype.
     
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  3. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 is about as much of a new game as Railworks was compared Rail Simulator. The base is exactly the same, except upgraded with new features. The difference is that Railworks actually brought a bunch of improvements and new features, therefore it justified the new release as a separate game.

    TSW2 literally just gives you wheel slip and slightly better clouds simulation wise, and the scenario and livery editors. But none of these even work with the old routes. Let me just remind everyone that Railworks/Train Simulator fully supports even the first Rail Simulator add-on, the Isle of Wight route, with the new features.
     
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  4. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    Lets transfer that to the real life:
    Updated game -> old UE 4.16 updated to the new UE 4.23 (the same like changing your hair style from long -> cut them to short... will that be new version of Anthony started over fresh ? - no basically the same Anthony just with different hair who is thinking that he is completely new as somebody else told him that he is new)

    Starting fresh = new Train game completely new starting from 0 code (dump all DLCs, not compatible as its completely different code - can be the same engine and it will take more than just 6 months to do it 2 - 3 yaers) -> transferred to the life example: starting fresh (that can only your parents do - it can be the same engine, different engine but still different code, new Anthony not compatible with old Anthony - take 9 months to deliver).

    Hope you finally understand what is NEW and what is just UPDATE called like its a new game which is really not.
     
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  5. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Active Member

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    Great, another DTG fanboy telling everyone else what their opinion should be.
     
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  6. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    as always
     
  7. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Active Member

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    Their honesty? So, how honesty have Dovetail been? How long have they been shilling TSW, promising fixes and content for three years, all the while they have been making TSW2, knowing that they weren't going to add content, fix issues or no longer support TSW. We supported them, had an open mind and they lied to us. They took money for a game they knew they were not going to support. You can be disappointed in the community all you want. Those of us disappointed in Dovetail are still going to voice our opinions.
     
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  8. Kestrel33

    Kestrel33 Active Member

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    He's not just any fanboy, he's fanboi #1.
     
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  9. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    What I love about train simulator is the fact that I can pick any train and run it on pretty much any route. I can run the newest train on the oldest route and vice versa with no issues.

    This was also how Train Sim World was sold. With an editor in the pipeline and various other features supposedly coming.

    Perhaps, just perhaps, we will get an editor one day. However, at this rate there will be no dlc to use on it, as everything will be preserved and unusable.

    As I've said many times, when I purchased the M3 a few weeks ago, I expected the bugs to eventually be fixed. I expected more than three months life from it. As for the class 20, it's been killed off before it has even appeared.

    Charge for an update by all means, but make the old stuff compatible.
     
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  10. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    That is the point I was making. I don’t mind paying for new features though as long as they are reasonably priced and actually work as they are supposed to do.
     
  11. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    If the developer of the Class 20 earns his/her crust based on royalties.... then they'll be fuming about the lack of clarity on support for the product, and the serious implications that this will have for sales of the loco.... Hint, hint.

    PS: Although, maybe they intend to make the bulk of their cash when they re-release the Class 20 under TSW2, and sell it a second time........ ;-O
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
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  12. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

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    TSW 2 is hardly a fresh start. Sand Patch has been brought over from the original game, which means that it was easier to do this and fix the few bugs that popped up than to build a new route. Any features in the "new" game could have been added to the original with some effort, which as a paying customer I would hope is what would have happened. TSW 2 is nothing more than a cash grab and a way to end support for old content so DTG don't have to waste time and money fixing those pesky bugs.
     
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  13. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    As others have already mentioned, it's not. This isn't fresh or new, this is an updated TSW. It's like the Cities XL franchise. If you can provide us proof that this is a totally new base game, then please do. The importing issues with old routes seemed to be (iirc) a bug in UE4. Although that takes time, that's not because this is a new game, that's issues with just importing content from one engine version to another.

    Instead of getting what we've asked for (more control of settings, better lighting), we get a format that looks like old DTG ways. What we get in this year's version is decent content wise, and you luck out more as a console user than a PC user, but it raises questions. My theory stands of dumping the old reviews, comments, etc while allowing for a large source of cashflow. We could see updates for old content too (they just aren't promising anything), but only for TSW2, and not as a remastered version, just to fix issues we have.

    The community is right to be angry, the issues I listed are a subset of a larger group, and some people are not as respectful with their language with their concerns about them. Anyone is free to be upset at that, but the core issues at hand should not be ignored or sidelined based on how people raise them.
     
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  14. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    Fresh. Sure.
     
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  15. Sumit

    Sumit Member

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    It was a hint for us that TSW is a prototype

    Anthony Pecoraro 2
     
  16. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Yes! Engine upgrades, features added and doing things such as taking questions from the community and having an hour long Q&A with yes and no answers whether or not it’s what some of the community wants to hear and aiming towards being more transparent in general. Other then the editor a lot of these “promised features” are missing from TSW are comments made during streams where an enthusiastic and optimistic developer stated what they would like to do and was received by the community as 100% fact. Do I believe a lot of the negativity around DTG moving on from TSW and focusing on TSW2 is justified? No, I don’t expect updates to routes such as NEC that was released more then two years ago and I find it fully acceptable especially with the features being added to fully put their attention into TSW2. We all got our money’s worth from TSW, if you didn’t then it obviously wasn’t the game for you. Criticism is fantastic for everyone but I find no need for people like that to try ruin the part of the community that does enjoy it.
     
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  17. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree with you Matthew.
     
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  18. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

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    Some of us are just upset about development of TSW and are expressing our opinion. I'm sure the intent of the majority of people here isn't to diminish anyone's enjoyment of the game. You're simply one of people who believe DTG have made all the right choices, and you are most definitely entitled to that. But so are those of different opinion and must be given fair space to express themselves. Blaming will only incite useless conflict.
     
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  19. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    In what way is the criticism ruining it for you? You're still going to get what you're happy with.

    If it wasn't for people criticising and taking DTG to task, do you honestly believe that there would have been a 90 minute Q&A?

    No, there wouldn't. There would have been a 5 minute promo video telling you what you are getting followed up by a stream a couple of days before release.

    As for the over enthusiastic developer, maybe you are right but no one forced them to make promises, they chose to put up an hour long video of the wonderful editor (which seems to have been removed curiously). To be honest, he's not just some lowly graphic designer responsible for making the ballast look pretty or an engineer for coupling animations, he's the Senior Producer for TSW, so it would be expected that he would have some authority and knowledge of what was and what wasn't being included.
     
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  20. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    I hope all of them criticizing DTG always should ask them selves if they self really never made a mistake.
     
  21. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Those criticising DTG aren't asking you for 24.99 every time they make a mistake though!
     
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  22. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Do you really think all the TSW customers that bought all TSW content like me would do that if they aren't satisfied with the product.
     
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  23. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    No, and not all are criticising either.

    I would guess that everyone in the forum has paid money either directly to DTG or indirectly through Steam, Sony or Microsoft.

    I am one of those customers too, so if I spend my money, I have a right to express my opinion on the quality of the goods or service I have purchased.

    And it's not just a case of I have the base game, I've spent a lot of money on TSW. I will continue to buy TS1 DLC's because they're good value at the moment and right now I believe it's better than TSW.

    What I won't be doing is spending any money on TSW 2 unless something drastically improves in the next few weeks.

    I may consider it when it's bundled in the steam Xmas sale for under 10.00 most likely.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
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  24. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Except their mistakes cost people money as well as delivering non existing hope and lies after lies. There's a difference..
     
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  25. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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  26. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    No that is equal rights for all. We are all working in the real world. And even the (german) labour law is accepting the fact, that simple mistakes could happen without punishment for the employee even if it costs the company or the customer money.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
  27. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    And my opinion is that sure TSW has some cons, but the weight of the pros is more heavy.
     
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  28. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    And I respect your opinion and in no way is it affecting my enjoyment of this community.
     
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  29. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    you do realise they literally said they won't be putting the new features on 'preserved DLC' right? So nothing will improve for NEC. And the fact that you call NEC an "acceptable" DLC doesn't make you look like you have the bar set very high in the first place in my eyes. Also, how does it being 2 years old justify that it won't be u̶p̶d̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ FIXED. If you wait long enough, everything gets old. This is like finding out 2 years after constructing your house, that due to a design flaw, your entire basement one day fill to the brim with water. But you think to your self, my contractor made this 2 years ago, why would he even bother to fix it. And then you tell me it isn't that bad anyway cause you can swim in that basement.
     
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  30. sinnere

    sinnere Active Member

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    Agreed with the post above. I never understood the "it's an old DLC" argument.. I guess to hell with the future users who'd like to run those routes?
     
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  31. nielsmallant100

    nielsmallant100 Well-Known Member

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    Also, the Q&A was only as clear as it was (yes and no answers) because Sam forced it to be (thank god for that). If it would've been just Matt and the chat (no offense to Matt) it would've been the same unclear answers as usual
     
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  32. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    I'm locking this thread here as it's one part doing laps of the same posts, one part an opportunity to flame those who don't have the same viewpoint.

    There's nothing wrong with the subject matter, but get the tone under control please.
     
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