As discussed in another thread about unbranded liveries, I’d like to broaden the conversation and include a few more related topics. Liveries From what I understand, it's not always a lack of resources that slows down development—it’s often licensing issues. Securing licenses can take months of effort. As you can imagine, Train Operating Companies (TOCs) have bigger priorities than negotiating the use of their branding in a game. They’re busy handling contracts worth millions of euros. So even if DTG (or a third-party developer) wants to add a particular train, a missing license can mean that it may never appear in TSW. So, I’d like to ask the community: Would you be okay with a debranded livery—where the colors are more or less correct, but the logo is missing? If the color scheme itself is protected as intellectual property, would you accept a completely fictional livery instead? Or would you prefer having the correct train with the wrong, but licensed, livery? For example, a DB-branded Stadler KISS instead of a WestfalenBahn one—even if the latter would be more accurate for a specific route? Routes What’s your opinion on semi-fictional routes? Not fantasy-style content like the Runaway Elf DLC, but something more grounded. For example, a route that looks and feels like it's in the UK, using accurate infrastructure, signals, and signage, but doesn’t actually exist in real life. Would you pay for this kind of route? I always think of the German route Im Köblitzer Bergland—it’s semi-fictional but remains one of the most iconic and beloved routes in TSC history.
On the routes, in principle yes. For example if the only way to get an Australian route in the game was to build it and make it a fictional UK one then sobeit. Or my frequent call for Yugoslavia narrow gauge. Routes like the one down to Dubrovnik were well engineered and could be easily built as standard gauge and “DBfied”. DTG or at least their predecessors are no stranger to this as TSC… Seebergbahn was based on the BLS around Spiez and Interlaken but given a DB setting. Both instances of Phorum Peninsula used the Isle Of Portland in Dorset as geographical location.
I'd be ok with de-branded, but only if all possible efforts to have it branded and licensed were made prior, and if it was a much requested loco etc. I think ones where licensing is possible should be prioritised. I don't think I'd be happy with a completely fictional livery. I don't think I'd be happy with an incorrectly licensed/liveried train either tbh. I think in the latter 2 cases, I'd rather just a factory liveried train (for example Hitachi 80x units are just grey by default when they are testing usually). Not personally interested in semi-fictional routes.
I have a similar example flying around my head for a while. NationalExpress really doesn't seem to like their RRX logos and/or liveries depicted in simulators (atleast to my understanding), as Train Planet receiced a Cease & Desist from them. If a route around Cologne would ever come to TSW where a Desiro HC is almost mandatory, one of the only few options are to fictionally use a DB Regio branded one as a probably permanent substitute solution.
For me I think the class of train is more important than the livery, I would buy a train I found interesting regardless of whether the livery was debranded, fictional or wrong I think semi-fictional routes could be interesting as long as they take full advantage of the freedom, for example having branch lines, different types of services, industry and freight, variety of interesting scenery, etc. A semi-fictional route that was just a straight line with only passenger services probably wouldn't be very interesting I think the best use of semi-fictional routes would be routes where getting detailed and accurate information would be difficult/impossible, for example historical routes set in the 19th or early 20th century, subways, etc
Yeah No Not sure, I guess I’d have to see in a case by case situation No, I’ll only go for the realistic routes
Debranded liveries, I have multiple times been very vocal in supporting them if licensing is unavailable. Fictional brandings I am okay with to a certain point. In the early privatisation era there were several freight TOCs which had simply put their logos over the old Railfreight sectorised grey livery, Freightliner and Mainline spring to mind here. I would personally be perfectly okay if we got a fictional branding in a context such as this, and to be quite honest, this isn't too unlike what many other games both railway and not are already doing - real livery, fictional company. In some cases, this may even be a viable alternative to just having the train be there in plain colours. But I get the impression that the question was more in reference to a fully fictional livery and branding akin to what we got with the 484, and on that front it's a hard no from me. Now a train carrying branding it never wore... to be honest, I wouldn't actually have that big of a problem with it. It might not have happened yet don't get me wrong, but feasibly one day DB could decide to acquire a Class 70. A Class 68 could be leased out to Europhoenix or ROG. But then in this case it is actually possible that TOCs might not actually want this to be done, not that I can really think of why that might be the case. Fictional routes, also pretty okay with me if they're built really well. A good example, my absolute favourite route to play with in Trainz is called Duchy Days. It's entirely fictional but it is built really authentically and with great detail, set in the southwest in the 1980s with a varied main line, a short heritage railway, multiple different branches for both passenger services and quarry freight traffic, a major depot at one end. When it is done to that degree, where the gameplay opportunities are immense and the detail is to such a level that you could honestly believe it to be a place that really exists, I think such a route could genuinely become one of the best on offer.
For fictional liveries, it depends. If they've fought tooth and nail for them, yes. If they just decided not to try, then no.
I'm quite sure DTG's stance is to get the licences. They got "screwed" over by the WCML, so they mad both the licensed and unlicensed content. You would only do that if there is a chance to obtain the license afterall. And they are still trying to fix that. 3rd parties on the otherhand are just free to do what they please I know that realism is key, but who are the ones that will know?
I'm ok with debranded routes. I mean, look at Chicagoland. The only reason we dont have Metra is because of branding when all the seeds for it is already in the game.
They also now have the keys to build the ultimate fictional route - Isle Of Sodor (I’ll get my coat).
For fictional liveries yes if they tried and failed and it meant not releasing the loco because of it ,or just go ahead and build the route without the correct livery just near as possible the real look . As for routes yes as long as they then use full artistic licence to build a scenic, busy route with plenty of variety in passenger and freight traffic . Also wouldn't mind if they made a real world route that has very little traffic in real life ,but just made a more interesting timetable for it.
Debranded liveries I have no issue with. Fictional routes, semi or complete I have zero interest in. Holiday Express DLC was a fun novelty as it was clearly based on when we had train sets as children but I won't purchase anymore.
But that's exactly what i was not talking about regarding fictional routes. I mean "realistic" routes, which just do not exist irl, but *could*.
Ah ok my bad. But yeah those routes are also a no from me, unless it was a closed route that was done as a what if, so for example Nottingham Victoria to Rugby Central on the old GCR but done in the Modern day.
i am not against fictional routes so long as it is sold and advertised as that and has its own place in the game menu not just under routes but under a new section named fictional
Not the GC but I believe someone made a layout based on Towcester on the old SMJ but in BR Blue days. I could definitely go for that, nice little network Olney and Blisworth to Banbury and Stratford On Avon. Class 31's or 25's on the Stratford trains and 2 car Class 105's on the Banbury line. Or ultra modern, 158's from Blisworth to Stratford and 153 from Olney to Banbury.
Yeah that would get my money for sure. Last year I went to an event at the Great Central Railway and they had their two 153s running and someone did the old regional railways window stickers as a "what if", it was a nice touch and something I'd like to see replicated.
I think a what if version of HS1 and the Eurotunnel would be cool, where ICE and TGV trains for example ran to St Pancras. Then the licensing issues with Eurostar can be avoided
I'm okay with entirely fictional routes and locos too. Thomas is fictional. Why not have the whole island of Sodor while we're at it? It's not "incorrect" if it's "accurate" in the lore. Or the Hogwarts Express. Or the made up lands they have in Derail Valley or Railroads Online. Give it a story and stick to it and it's just as good as the "real world" since in the end we're not driving IN the real world, we're still sitting at out TV/Computer screen pretending in a chair anyway.
It reminds me of this one route that exists on Trainz based on the line from Cambridge to Huntingdon. In reality it was closed years ago, part of it was pulled up while part of it was left overgrown until it was eventually rebuilt as the Cambridgeshire Guided Busway. But this Trainz route remade the line as though it were instead reinstated as a railway, set in the modern day with refurbished stations and OHLE installed, ending at a new small terminus directly beside the Huntingdon ECML station.
Really cool to see that my question has turned into a discussion. One important part of that which I haven't seen mentioned here is getting the railroads' blessing to use unbranded trains. I definitely would not want DTG to sabotage present or future relationships. For myself, I'm fine with unbranded trains and fictional liveries, but fictional branding seems a step too far away. Routewise, completely fictional routes like Holiday Express or Thomas are fun and fine, but I wouldn't be in favor of realistic fictional routes as a substitute for a real one. For example, if an entirely fictional passenger route was created for Chicago in the absence of CTA or Metra licensing, I'd have zero interest.
What if it was a fictional place called "Windy City" and just happened to be superficially similar to a certain midwest location?
Not sure if I would wanna give money to wizarding world and the author of this universe. I keep thinking of fictional TSC routes like IKB v3 reloaded or Projekt roter Knopf, which were great routes although fictional. And I'd love to see a 3rd party doing that for TSW. Honstely, I hope DTG continues with real routes, but if it's a 3rd party I wouldn't mind that.
The Hogwarts Express runs from London to somewhere in the Scottish Highlands so that's a bit outwith Dovetail's range methinks I'd say make the West Highland Line extension and have the Jacobite with a fictional 'Hogwarts Express' variant/journey to attract that fanbase to the route/game, a similar idea to the Thomas pack, - with a Picture-taking scenario at Glenfinnan included, of course!
I’ve been re-reading the Harry Potter books and the Hogwarts Express journey is a little enigmatic. Platform 9 3/4 is concealed from “Muggles” at Kings Cross but it’s most unclear whether on departure the train emerges on to the national rail network or has its own infrastructure. The journey is described as being very long with references to the scenery becoming wilder as the train progress's north but the only other station mentioned is Hogs Meade. No junctions or passing other trains en route. Which is at odds with the “Night Bus” which seems capable of getting to its destinations much quicker than Muggle equivalents. It also needs to be borne in mind that the Hogwarts Express cannot rely on any electrical components as according to the lore these will not function where this is a strong magical aura. Which is why Hogwarts couldn’t call in the RAF or other military to assist in the last battle as none of their equipment would have worked. So it would certainly be an interesting one to figure out. Also the timetable would be very sparse as from what I can glean the HE only ran a few times a year, usually at the start of the autumn term and end of the summer term.
It’s just the Branding, Same with the Flirt 3 XL from Abellio before and now DB The Train is owned by VRR
While the google AI is of course not the best source in the world, he is right. RRX is actually a branding owned by the state of NRW. NX is just the TOC, which is carrying out the operations.
I wouldn't mind trains without branding ( for instance a Metra train which was just all silver- painted with locos in, say, red, white and blue livery. But I would have zero interest in a fictional Metra route because there would be no need to make one up. At least two or three routes are owned by BNSF or UP. It's been done, albeit by a 3rd party ( The Racetrack ).
Personal opinion, but fictitious routes or branding could be useful to explore plausible future (real) routes, former routes that no longer exist, or generally an alternate timeline of an operator.. If I had the tools, I’d be making a fictional but plausible metro system in my home city. I’d use my own branding, that I believe would make sense in this place, but use existing rolling stock. The route would be far from reality, but to me it would real. A ‘what if’ in TSW form. Imagine having the chance to make the Woodhead Route, but as what it would be like today? Would it still be wired.. would there be long-distance services. How would a post-beaching survival rationalisation have affected the line.. To me, fictional is an opportunity to explore the ‘what ifs’ of our railways pas, present and future!
