Do People Really Enjoy Scenarios Like Antelope's "home At The Depot"?

I just completed the 90 minute scenario Home at the Depot, and it has to be the most boring scenario I've ever seen in TSW. Spending 90 minutes on a 5mph yard on a slight gradient doing the same thing 3 times over really isn't my kind of fun. Do people really enjoy scenarios like this?

 

Haven't played this specific one but I know exactly what you mean. I've never understood the appeal of shunting/ yard work at all. Some of the most mind numbing stuff I've ever done in a video game.

 

No. Definitely not.

When this comes round I'll be doing at 10 or 15 MPH, get it over and done with.

The other evening I did the Journey scenario on ECML where you have to take a knackered Azuma on the depot at Doncaster. That was 5 MPH in the sidings, needless to say I was doing at least double that.

Good job TSW doesn't employ virtual Traction Inspectors out and about with their radar guns!

 

Some people seem to but I find them dull as dishwater. I never played a single depot scenario since the days of CSX:HH, that’s hours of your life you will never get back. Remember that

 

I enjoy shunting to an extent, been doing quite a bit of it in the new freeroam. Forming consists etc.
I don't think I could do it for an hour and a half though.

 

Can be relaxing after a day of real world stress. A place to park your thoughts so to speak..

 

In this scenario you're not forming or breaking up consists. AI brings a formation to the yard, you drive it 1 mile to the end of the yard, and 1 mile back to a parking spot, only to pick up another formation and do the same again, and then again. That's everything you do in this scenario. Not sure that counts as shunting.

 

Well, the slight gradient means you need to make small brake/throttle adjustments all the time, to stick to the 5mph speed limit. Not sure that counts as relaxing. Certainly didn't relax me. :P

 

I mentioned this on stream as I was doing going through the Blockbuster scenario, and was saying how THAT felt like a scenario. It was an event, out of the ordinary, with excitement and pleasant surprises, while still keeping to realism (dare I say?). Something like the scenario mentioned in the OP, should be restricted to the timetable. I don't see a difference between that and the scenarios we've gotten in the past that were literally just timetable runs. Doing yard work IS NOT an event, it's a typical day in the life and should be kept in the timetable for those who want to do them

 

Shunting needs a serious rework, especially if in scenarios. You should for example, form a consist based on instructions, but go about it however you want, figure it out. Make fewer moves, pull fewer cars at once, all up to you as long as you turn trains ABC, DEF, GHI, and JKL into ALHDEBG. Simply following step-by-step with these speeds is beyond snoozefest.

 

That's featured in TSC for ages, marshalling scenarios. There's really interesting puzzle scenarios there, like "Kingmoor Sunset" on the WCML Carlisle - Glasgow. Enjoyed that.

 

It's strange because in Run 8 I actually enjoy running the Industry Locals or operating the Hump Yards. I guess because there is an emergent purpose in that setting out the cars you can return xx hours later to pick them up and form into outgoing manifests.

But switching or shunting in TSW serves little such value. Not sure if it was SPG or Clinchfield where you do a multitude of moves, but essentially ended up with the same cars in their same consists half a mile down the yard.

 

I think it is important to have shunting scenarios also, the timetable A-B runs don't offer such gameplay and for players who like shunting scenarios they absolutely should be there. Everyone can choose what they want to play, if I find a scenario boring I just don't play it.

Completionists will force themselves to play stuff they don't like for some medals that have no use at all... gladly not my thing.

Haven't played that one yet. Time to get into scenario creation on the PC Editor. That's what I've been really waiting for.

 

That exist ?

 

I usually love doing shunting work but the American 5mph limit is just too painful.

 

I actually enjoy switching scenarios, but the problem in TSW is that they sometimes appear aimless. If someone writes a scenario where you can understand the process and purpose, then it can be a rich experience.

The other problem is that we do not have enough actual switchers in the game. TSW is forced to use locos which are not dedicated switchers, but rather regular freight locos. SPG has a couple of those scenarios. There are a couple of German switchers, but US routes use road switchers which are usually too large and powerful for switching duties. The only UK switching scenarios I can recall use the Class 08 on TVL.

Of course that brilliant Clinchfield scenario, " Limited Power ", the best in the game, uses the F7, which is not really a switcher at all.

Overall though, there needs to be one or two switching scenarios for each route.

 

I must admit - 5 mph yards are not the epicenter of excitment, but are part of the railroading scene. Sort of like scraping barnacles off the bottom of your sailboat - just part of the deal.

I don't mind doing such scenarios occassionaly since the are a nice change from straight A to B frieght runs. I must admit, I don't jump on those scenarios first thing, but will run them when I am in the mood.

 

I'd be happy if they removed them entirely from the game. So painfully dull to play and you often have to do them to get 100% completion.

To anyone who does enjoy them- what do you see in them? What makes them fun?

 

I know some people like them (Matt seems to love them), but they're never been my cup of tea. A cup of tea I'm forced to drink, it seems, as that %^%^&^ Quick Play gets quite fixated on sending them my way. Just like Creator's Club, where you can't filter by route or train, Quick Play is one of those ideas that could use another buff and a polish. Despite owning almost every DLC, opening up thousands of choices, it keeps obsessively returning to the same shunting ones again and again and again. A minor annoyance, to be sure, but still an annoyance. It's like it created a list once and insists I complete everything on it before being allowed to do anything fun. Just like the wife, in that regard, lol.

 

I've not played the scenario in question, but what comes to mind are the slow yard transfer services in and you of NEC Trenton. It's painfully slow, no real yard work at play, and you never really test your abilities with safety systems or maintain speed during the whole thing. I don't care how real these are, but these just aren't fun to do. That said I get having these services in a timetable, however I really don't see the point wasting time making one of your scenarios on something like that. If I want to do three short yard climb services in a row I could do that in timetable mode easily.

 

Those of us who do enjoy switching recognize that these operations are part and parcel of the real railway and its daily grind.

To us, TSW is more than a game chasing points and " completion " , whatever that means. It's a simulation that reflects day to day life on the railway.

Try " completing " Limited Power on CRR or a TVL shunting scenario. They are a lot of fun and a real challenge.

And they're not all at 5mph. That's an exaggeration.

 

I like them because of the challenge to keep within the speed limits - it is all part of "simulated" railroading -- I enjoy buiulding consist as you do with the switcher on the Penninsula corridor. I know they are not for everyone, but I feel a big part of railroading would be missing if they removed then entirely. I could ask the same qustion on commuter lines --- what is the thrill of being a glorified bus driver -- open/close accelerate deaccelerate open/close repeat... (tongue in check for those suffering from humor impairment) It is all part of railroading and if you want to be a 100% competionist (how can you be on a simulator?? ) then there you go -- get the thrill from finishing them.

Of course, it does take a bit of patience - I guess I have honed that skill from crossing the Pacific a few times at 12 knots, or mowing forty acres with a 6 foot brush hog ... sometimes the pleasure is just from doing...

best

 

I enjoy shunting, and I know Matt does, but when I asked once in a stream about a yard-focused DLC, he said that segment of the players was too small to make it viable. Shunting fans seem to be a niche within a niche, so to speak.

Something to consider when working in the editor, though; lots of track and rolling stock, not a lot of scenery, and plenty of opportunity to create logic puzzles.

 

Good point.
I suppose it goes to forming a pretty big chunk of derail valley's premise so it can work, but it needs context as other have pointed out. There's probably more to consider in addition but I only have a small brain.

 

That was a Clinchfield scenario, absolutely hilarious stuff. Especially considering nobody noticed that during making/testing... or they ignored it.

 

I tried to drive a bit quicker when I twigged i was doing the same thing a few times.

I was then held up by long waits and waiting for buttons to recognise.

Agree though, repeating the same thing was a bit sleepy for me

 

It's not only scenarios, it's timetable services also.

Just yesterday I've been doing Charity Javelin (Part 2). Well, it starts where you ended part 1, so few handred yards from Hitachi hangar on one of the tracks. Then, you have to arrive to Ashford platform, but that is real pain. Why?

First, you're prompted to move another few yards, via cleaning machine - where max speed is 3 MPH. After that you're being put on hold for about 9-11 minutes (depends how much you obey the "cleaning speed limit").

Although this service begins around 4 a.m. in the morning I thought maybe there is a reason I have to stay there for that 9-11 minutes, so I get out of my unit and walk on foot to Ashford to check if there is some other train shunting or ocuppying my platform. Nope. Not a single soul on the platform not mentioning a train. So I carefully checked if there is any hole in the depot's fence I could fix - there wasn't - and come back to my Javelin.

After those amazing 9 to 11 minutes I had permision to enter Ashford platform. AT LAST! But not so fast my man, because you know what? I don't think one cleaning is enough for that Javelin of yours - let's do it again!

Yep, you're right - after 9 to 11 dumb minutes you have to AGAIN go through cleaning machine, AGAIN obeying 3 MPH speed limit.

Then departing from Ashford finally the ride was quite enjoyable as you don't have to stop on Ebsfleet nor Stratford, but at London finally, so going through that stations at full route speed was exceptional.

But still, never again!

 

Im feeling triggered just reading this description. Personally for me, I'd need to be playing some of my favourite tunes alongside a bottle of my favourite tonic to make this one bearable

 

They shouldn’t be removed, not at all. What should have happened though is something extraordinary worthy of a scenario. As it is, the scenario is essentially just three chained timetable services. That’s a pointless scenario. When they teased the last train potentially suffering a fault, they should have followed through with.

Have the loco break down and another coming to the rescue. Or have us set out the loco when we’re done to be looked at in the shops. Have some traction motors suddenly cut out. Anything at all. That would have been a nice scenario. You get in the habit of real yardwork and then something out of the ordinary switches things up.

 

Enjoy shunting generally but those 5 mph yards on gradients that require constant adjusting between notch 1 & notch 0, can be soul destroying. I did the broken Azuma scenario at 15 mph and still received a platinum, which does make a bit of a mockery of the new scoring system! IRL that would have been tea & biscuits and a P45.

 

Does the traction unit concerned not have a low speed cruise control function like the class 66?

 

801s do have cruise control, but it's not featured in game. I don't know if it functions as low as 5mph.

 

Tutorials didn't mention anything about any kind of cruise control. Traction on this particular scenario is the typical Antelope Valley consist of loco and cabcar.

 

Ah ok. I wondered if there might be something people were missing. I know on the UK Class 66 its got very useful functionality in that regard. Pity.

 

DTG Matt can possibly shed some info on this then?

 

I don't and probably will not even attempt to do it. 5 MPH does not sound like fun at all.

 

Shunting work scenarios and services are definitely a difficult thing to make. Sadly, most shunting work in TSW is pretty boring.

The way they could be improved is by trying to make them less repetitive - there are many istances where you are just doing the same move over and over again. And try to avoid needing to go 10 minutes at 5mph where possible.
Also to spice up the scene, AI traffic around the player is necessary.

 

Yes, 5mph is obnoxiously slow and should be increased to 10mph at least. Do the math, that's double the fun! That way anyone who enjoys the 5mph can still do it without repurcussion. As I say, Dr. Ian Malcolm was right, "Must go faster".

 

Absolutely. Stopping points need to be more flexible too.

Why should I have to pull a cut of cars twice as far as I need to before being able to reverse into another siding? It's very unrealistic.

 

I did the "Job Center" Scenario on ECML a few days ago and it was not fun at all. You take a class 66 from Doncaster to a siding near the Doncaster International Railport Terminal. Once you reach the siding, you then switch some points for 4 trains leaving and entering the yard. Then you couple to some empty container wagons and take these to the other side of the yard at 5mph, uncouple then return to a stabling siding near Doncaster Station. I did this scenario because it was rated at maximum difficulty, but it was way too easy.

Has anyone else done this scenario? If so what are your thoughts?

 

I think at its core the problem is that slow speeds don't feel at all rewarding in a sim.
Maybe it's that our brains get bored, I personally often find myself thinking "why can't I skip to the end of this and continue with the fun stuff?".
Maybe it's that we don't actually have time when we play. I certainly feel like there's often a way more rewarding service five clicks away, unlike IRL.
Maybe the environment is just not detailed enough or fun to look at at such slow speeds? I guess IRL that would be equally as boring. But IRL a driver would know what POIs exist along the route, in a sim you know the scenery is always going to look the same, IRL you would see some unexpected things sometimes
Maybe it's because we're doing it purely for ourselves with nobody depending on that work, or really no human interaction whatsoever?
I don't know, but I feel there should be a solution to this somewhere. My suggestions:
Multiplayer would add a human component, but would be unbearable if having to deal with griefers. A simulation speed dial or skip button would take away some of the slowness. A different points system or maybe even online ranking which rewards you for completing tedious tasks would add a little bit of a human component as well. Being able to save & send replays of your driven services to friends may also add a little of that. Perhaps you could take it as far as adding another component to the online hub where you can show the services you have driven and get a "like" or so from another human being?
More dynamic environments would be nice obviously, but yeah that's not going to happen, it's enough work to create scenery for a route as it is now

 

Depends on the person. I know some that found it mind numbing in real life too, but I didn’t when I was shunting. That was with 5 and 10 km/h speed limits.

I think the problem is a complex combination of things. In real life, it’s work during work time and not entertainment in the hours off. That changes your perspective. Also, shunting in TSW is very formulaic and strict. In real life, shunting is a lot more interactive/dynamic and obviously serves some real purpose, which is often lacking in TSW. There’s no interaction with a signaller and others on the ground. The yards are usually dead and you’re the only one moving. There’s no workers and drivers walking around.

All in all, shunting is just a difficult thing to properly replicate in a sim.

 

It'd be good if triggers could be set so that once the consist is ready, a loco on standby moves up, connects and hauls it off. The new portal system might come in handy here for sending finished shunting tasks off map in scenarios..

 

I also don't like shunting very much. Don't have TSW4 but I know a really boring scenario from LGV were you had to shuttle between the yard and the nearby station. I believe you had to do the same thing 5 times. Two was enough for me.

 

The flight sim equivalent of a shunting or depot scenario would be taxiing planes between gates or to and from a hangar for maintenance. i.e. tedious and rather pointless if you never get to take off or land. Just because it’s part of real life doesn’t make for good entertainment in a simulation.

 

I’ve tried to get into switching as there are a couple of seriously good switchers/shunters in the game. But I just get all bored and itchy after 10 minutes or so. Maybe I need to give it another go and look for something that might be interesting.

I think if it felt like there was a “point” of doing what we were doing, it’d be more interesting and engaging. We move some cars around but don’t get a feeling of why or what happens afterward.

Maybe if we just worked the yard for a while and got to see our consists get picked up while we were continuing to work on other consists, etc… Switching/shunting probably benefits more in sandbox when you’re doing it for a reason.

 

Even then though taxing is much more interesting, some planes are squirrelly and take some real effort to keep on the tarmac. And if you're taxing large aircraft like airliners around you have to be mindful that you're not gonna hit anything. And all in all it means you're still engaged with the run, because it is entirely possible to crash your Cessna or A320 into a building or dump it in a ditch after your three hour flight. Taxing is slow for sure, but that's because the alternative of trying to speed 50 knots around a 90 degree turn is genuinely risky, and thus not practical.

The problem with Train Sim World is the speed limits don't matter much of the time. In real life many of these yard speed limits are there to ensure the safety of people walking around the yard, which is pointless in a game where that's a non-issue. And even when you're talking when it should be a issue around sharp bends or switches you can take them at speeds well above what should be possible, One of Hyce's videos has him going through a 20 MPH switch on SoS at nearly 70 MPH. Speeding is only a issue if you care about scoring at all, otherwise you have zero motivation to be taking the speed limits into account, and that's what make it real annoying.

 

I did it while on a Discord call with some friends to make it more bearable.
Absolutely dreadful scenario. It's not even interesting in terms of where you go and what you do.

I can't believe someone at DTG sat down and played through that in it's entirety and thought "yeah that was fun, let's put that in the game".

 

They probably got the bot to test that one!

Or the intern...

 

Maybe keep 5mph for timetable shunting, but do 10mph in scenarios, so it's a bit more dynamic. Scenarios are often non-realistic anyway, this wouldn't hurt. You can put in an achievement for doing it in 5mph.

Perhaps it's similar to walking. We don't mind walking IRL, but who walks in games? You always run to get to the next task and eliminate dull time.