Hey folks, for a few weeks now I'm considering to bring this up, but I'm in a mood now for completely different reasons, so here is the time. When I started coming here a couple years ago, this felt like a friendly place. People would come and share their experiences, screenshots, and like others to show support. "Hey, I've seen your post, was nice." Of course, some don't meet the thresholds. Cozy friendly little family. Fast forward to today, there is pretty much no feedback anywhere. I started checking profiles, only to notice most frequent posters with a 3:1 received / given ratio (or more), showing new attachments as activity with the odd like sprinkled in. Basically it feels like most people just come here to dump their junk, or farm fame and appreciation, without spreading the love themselves. It's not really about preferences. Some people only like in a certain thread, loco class, or 3rd party product exposure. (Myself included to an extent.) With a big enough community however it shouldn't feel like it, one might get fewer likes but most everyone has an audience. Including, asking about things to improve. It's entirely possible that the reasons are a bit complicated. Such as the restrictions on the official thread made some people neurotic about (not) using Reshade / AP, or somesuch. Is this something that only concerns me? What I wish is people to start appreciating each other a little more. What I do not wish is people to open my post history and press like just because I brought this up. I will be perfectly happy if I get no likes as punishment for a week, month or forever, but notice that others do.
Is this a comment about the TSC forum in general, or specific to the Creation Centre? I'm not sure what you want? Is it more likes being given out? Does that make a community? With regards the screenshot competition, I think that's a special case. I deliberately don't give out likes, as I think sometimes DTG get lazy and award the winner to the screenshot with the most likes. As a competitor I'm not going to do something that might help someone else win. Would you?
Technically speaking, yes and yes. I did always like posts that I did enjoy, or found helpful. It's just the equivalent of a real life "nice", a smile, or "thanks" - bonding basics. It's pretty much Creation Centre focused indeed. There is very little discussion here, basically people just share a few pictures. How do participants know whether people enjoy, care about their content? What's the point of sharing if nobody cares? I do, yes. Of course I verify received/given/history now, and don't like any posts by like farmers. I understand your view, but I find it sad at the same time, for the reasons outlined above.
I would also like to talk to others more, as I usually only frequently post in the Screenshot and Unofficial Screenshot Contest as I enjoy seeing the interesting DLC that others own, the awesome photography skills in terms of screeshots and interesting scenarios that people play and it's always fun to take part in that. My problem is that I can't seem to find much that I can add to a conversation in the general threads and I used to be more active in most discussions around the beginning to the middle of 2022 and I don't know if it was just me, but it felt like I could add more to a conversation because the topics were broad. Like I mentioned earlier, it would be great to find the opportunity to contribute to more threads but unfortunately a lot of the general threads at the moment are things I just don't know much about. Could be about the games coding or a specific DLC that maybe I don't own so I can't comment on. I try to be active on the Armstrong Powerhouse WIP DLC thread because I'm a huge fan of their DLC and I enjoy discussing it with others. But this post has certainly inspired me, I will try and be more active elsewhere on the forums rather than just screenshots. Also sorry if I said something that was phrased badly, I'm not that good with words!
Good points, Blazin I think it's often enough to participate in a conversation, no need to always add something useful. I agree about observing what others enjoy. I'm a bit salty about 3rd parties, I wish their products could be integrated to Steam, and something else. I also agree with IronBladder's observation. So many people moved on to TSW... Lots of nice creations there though. Slowly but surely getting the variety in.
Still here my friends. Can't understand how one could move to TSW. The forum's active there - but just because TSW's list of serious bugs is growing FUBAR. Could never enjoy something that claims to be a simulator but is so closed and restricted - they have apparently still not managed to integrate a proper reliable LZB system for example - something that was already working very well 15 years ago in the freeware Loksim3D which got me into trainsimming. I love TSC because I can do what I want here. Set up any consist I like and run it where I like to. And I've got a massive amount of content that'll keep me playing this for years to come. I think the only DLC I don't have is the bulls*** NS SD70M from TheLocoFlop. Even though TSC it has its bugs, most of them can be fixed by us, the community. DTG's decision not to release proper editors will keep TSW from growing up. It's an arcade game, nothing more. Collect chocolate bars from trackside. Great. Eye adaption - a joke. Awesome lighting. Nah.
Torf, I’ve said it before, you are my hero. Exactly what I think as well. I have 80 pages of Locomotives in the QD list, so serious investment.
why not move to TSW? if it is just the bugs Train Simulator Classic has way more bugs in it I own both games and I like both despite their huge bug list's
I have no blockers with TSC. I own content yet to play, whereas I would need to pay for the same things again in TSW. I did watch the start of their Thursday stream and I wasn't convinced at all, neither visually nor the sounds. In many ways it's prettier but somehow it doesn't add up for me, like an overall downgrade even, feels less realistic.
Well, on my end the answer is relatively simple: I got promoted in RL, have much less time for things like Train Sim in general. I still play TSC, just that due to less time I might spend less on making screenshots, editing and positing them etc. As well as less forum activitiy in general. But I'm not planning to go over to TSW anytime soon.
In TSC the bugs can be sorted by the community using the editor. Try that in TSW, oh you can't there is no editor.
Three years ago, I think it was quite active during lockdown for obvious reasons. Then busy life just gets in the way for a lot of us. Sadly since I started back here in the last few months I have noticed that there seems a lot more antagonism and even personal attacks. Shame really, as I’m sure it puts many potential new contributors off.
I certainly agree. When I joined in discussions in late 2021 and early 2022 it was a much kinder environment then before I feel like. Often I see threads with people arguing and being rude to others which is a real shame, sometimes even the Dovetail staff have to get involved it can get so bad.
I have to hold my hand up as guilty when TSW users spout off on this site by accident (?) or otherwise. If I have appeared at any time as being rude, I apologise. Petty arguments about you said, he said etc do spoil the forum.
The lockdown makes sense Fortunately since my posts things got nicer a bit. Consequence or unrelated, doesn't matter. Things are a bit more lively. Some good threads, too. There are a few posters who seem a bit sour, the reception of recent US offerings has been sad to read. Creators must find a balance between perfectionism and profitability - they could, after all, go and work on something else. I can find fault in any product, but they've been at least on par with offerings from a similar timeframe. It's funny because when I started, Just Trains has been held on a pedestal, but I read a lot of negatives about them since. Expectations, I guess.
JustTrains have their upsides and downsides. I personally find their midland UK lines perfectly fine, if not cheap. However they do have many other UK routes of much lower quality but still charge the same high prices as for their midland routes. I think that's what irks a lot of people about JT - that their older or less detailed products are overpriced. Just my personal opinion on the matter.
Perfectly fair and polite. I'm a moderate fan of product specific discounts as they suggest you should buy old stuff. Like the old ECML really isn't the same value as the new PDL. It's possible to make informed decision, but really tough to prioritise.
I always do. I only take part in the unofficial one, and there's no evidence that whoever judges it picks the one with the most likes. Even if they did, I would still vote for others. If everyone had that attitude, then there would be hardly any votes, as judging by the amount of votes posts receive (in both threads) it would seem the only people voting are the ones who are actively involved with it. It's just good sportsmanship to vote for the entries you like, whether you are taking part or not. If everyone also did the same, then there wouldn't be an issue. Some people just take it all way too seriously, and they get way too competitive. It's taking part that matters.
I don't even know what that means precisely. How can you 'farm' likes in here? You post something, and people will either like it, or they won't. It's not like you can control that. My advice is, stop worrying about "likes". Who cares if people like your post or not? The "helpful" button is far more useful, and should be used more, as it encourages people to offer help and advice.
I think your above post above "good sportsmanship" - or in general, camaraderie - answers it well. When someone keeps posting, gets acknowledged, basks in the glory, but doesn't reciprocate it. I also noticed that some people share and upvote AP products exclusively. It developed into an itch. Basically, if people reliably ignore some posts it can mean: they're poor or boring. Either way, unwelcome. I paid attention because I wanted to improve but now I feel that the main way to improve is to fork out some money on AP website and share a million Class 37 liveries with AP cloudy summer setting and RWEnhanced. As for the official, I didn't figure it out, lately it's top likes. I kind of dropped it, just answering.
I think you have to approach these comps as an optional bit of fun, don’t get too serious. Getting overly obsessed just spoils your enjoyment, let alone any potential impact on mental health.
I stopped liking posts in official contests due to issues where someone submits a screenshot, and its later revealed they used a 3rd party asset that isn't allowed. So I just let DTG be the judges.
This whole idea that you can judge people by their "like" ratio is a bit silly. I click like if I like something. This idea that one has to reciprocate just makes the whole like button redundant. If I like something I click like, if I don't, I won't. I wasn't aware that I had to monitor my given to received ratio, and maintain some kind of parity. That would mean I'd be clicking like on things I don't actually like, just to maintain some kind of status quo. I've never checked my given/received ratio ever until just now, and it's around 3:1, so according to triznya.andras, I'm some sort of misanthropic sociopath who is not part of a community, and I'm only here to dump my junk and like farm. The worst invention in the world, is the like button. People end up being psychologically dependent on it, and get really stressed if their 'content' doesn't generate enough 'likes'. Seriously... stop worrying about likes. They're meaningless. It's not a useful measure of anything, especially as you've pointed out, people will just randomly click like because they feel pressured to maintain some kind of given/received ratio. Do they really like it? Do people who type LOL really laugh out loud? Are your Facebook friends, really your friends? You'll never know. I hear people mention community a lot with regard to forums, subreddits, hobbies etc. The fact is, no community is this harmonious nirvana that people try to make it. You can force it through moderation to some extent, but like real communities, you will have clashes of interest, clashes of personality, clashes of opinion etc. These sometimes result in a heated conversation. Kinda like real life. If you want my opinion, for what it's worth, you know you have a community when it functions like a real one, not some massively moderated, virtual gated community with rules about the lawn furniture.
It was even more fun when there was a dislike button too, bring it back I say, let's give the neurotically unbalanced and unstable snowflakes really something to ponder their existential crises over. How 90% of the internet survive out in the real world truly baffles me. P.S. Plz Gib Lieks
I deliberately did not like that post, even though I liked it. Whatcha reckon to that?? Yeah... I just want to watch the world burn.
That's fair and simple The thread was conceived at a moment when I noticed minimal interaction between posters. It's not about my posts getting likes or not. It's about others, too. As such, the BR Blue thread(s) were great because they brought people together. Sure we disagreed on nuances but we could learn some specifics from you where the game is quite wrong, whereas you may have observed acceptance. This is also good. Gives perspective on how people function, again to both sides. If I talk to someone, I can see their faces. There are questions and answers. The internet can be like a lonely person talking loud in their apartment, just to maintain sanity. It can feel like the mad priest in Skyrim who just keeps shouting about the gods in a park without anyone listening. Neither of those is a discussion, just people shouting into the void. Also, is it a well trained dog?
I don't even give likes for most of the time. 1. I don't want to give likes to mediocre posts that end up winning. 2. i give likes to ones that are better than mine. 3. I sometimes get barely any likes for some nice pictures which they give to ones that are worse. Here are 3 problems with the likes. As fas posting goes i post on both TSW and TSC and suggestions. I like TSW for it's trainspotting mechanic and TSC for it's tons of content.
So the official screenshot competition is just a case of most likes wins? That's terrible, as those with the most "friends" will just keep winning. It also breeds this "why should I help someone else win" thing. Doesn't someone judge the competition? You should all use the unofficial thread. Far more sportsmanlike, and you can have a million likes, and still not win if the judge doesn't think it's the winning shot.
1. The official one is based on DTG's input, while its likely the post with the most like will win, there are times where DTG will pick someone with less likes on their jurisdiction. It used to be based on likes when they 1st started out but it had the problems you listed. 2. I rather not do the unofficial contests due to the winner having to judge the next week contest.
Surely that makes it more fair, and interesting, rather than have the same people/person judging every single week? People have preferences, and biases, so changing the judge on a weekly basis gives shots of varying styles and methods a greater chance of being voted for.
The official one is based solely on Jamie not "DTG" (The way you sell it is like it's the whole staff have a board room meeting to decide the winner, mega lol), I'm reasonably confident that it's just Jamie and to be perfectly blunt some of his choices are bloody awful and chosen purely on the basis that it's someone new. Don't get me wrong some of the entrants always produce outstanding shots given that it's vanilla and I include you BnR in that along with Ironbladder and (the guy with a Labrador as his profile pic that for the life of me I cannot think of his name right now, starts with an M I'm sure) and therein lies the problem I think, there are a handful of really decent contributors and a sea of mediocre ones but Jamie feels in the interest of fairness and inclusivity that the mediocre get to occupy my screen time for a few weeks, I just wish we could turn it off, I paid for the game, I paid for the hardware the game is displayed on and I get to choose what i want to look at, except for these bloody official screenshots.
That's even worse then, as it's only one person, week after week judging it. There's no allowance for personal preference or bias, or agenda. I'm not suggesting anything untoward is actually happening, but people do have unconscious biases and preferences when it comes to making subjective decisions on things like this. Personally, I don't pay much attention to the screenshots. On routes where I've not had to unpack the AP files, thanks to fastload, I often only get a fleeting glance at the first one, and if there's a DTG promo shot up first, I don't get to see any of them. On routes where I have had to unpack the AP file for some reason, I either go make a brew, or go for a whazz while it's loading
I honestly do miss Dmitri running the contests, they seemed more enjoyable back them. Man I feel old now.
I also prefer the unofficial. The obvious reason is well, because I use lots of 3rd party enhancements! But the main reason is that the unofficial just feels like a much friendler and fairer contest to take place in. I have been participating in the unofficial now for almost a year and from my memory, only one argument broke out which was swiftly dealt with a big rule stating that the unofficial contest is purely for fun and negative and rude comments are discouraged which I very much agree with as it makes it a much more welcoming place for new people who would like to share some screenshots. I feel like there is more I want to say about the unofficial contest because I enjoy it so much, but I just can't find the words! Edit: Actually just thought of another reason. Because of the changing judges and allowing of 3rd party content in my opinion it allows much more creative freedom with your screenshots! Especially with the rule that states it should be some way linked to the theme but with the allowance of very tenuous links to the theme too which I really like. Like I mentioned, allows lots of creative freedom.
I will also note the one time I did win an unofficial contest, I messed up the week after due to pc issues.
You could just include a note that you don't want to judge, or even included, like myself last week, was happy to contribute to a stalling thread, but. Don't worry about the judging. My main issue with these threads is being thematic, so I either fish my old screenshots or have to do something I didn't plan to. But that's kind of the goal, to have a small community event. I'm just not the type, I don't do events in MMORPGs since 2009. Plus of course it's really hard to beat enhanced shots with AP stock, you really have to produce something miraculous to beat a mediocre shoot with good rendering and a nice livery. (A trade-off.) Point is, if you just contribute, I'm sure it's welcome and the thread starter is ideally happy to see stuff matching the topic. For many weeks now it's the one with most likes, occasionally there is a tie. To be fair, with this system we cannot blame Jamie, except for not choosing, of course. There might be a few reasons for declining quality. Mine could be summarized as putting in the effort, not paying out, stopping to. Others might look to improve further and install all those fancy things which are outlawed and then stop looking back. And of course a lot have left for TSW, which may have been the root cause for my observation. (Which is not personal. There have been a lot more contributions a year or two ago, of course we had various stages of lockdown, and the game is aging...)
Because it is the likes of your good self that have kept it it going as long as it has. I have been involved with this thread since its conception. It was first started as a bit of fun, with a life of maybe 6 weeks, but here we are 2yrs later with a well liked weekly comp and long may it continue. As you say it is all about creating a friendly welcoming environment that will not accept the negative attitude and touch wood to date we have all achieved that. The quality of screenshots shared on this thread have been phenomenal. (And with the AP Weather V2 pack being launched) I can only see the quality of submissions getting even better. We currently have a core of subscribers that contribute every week. I personally would like to see that core expanded to entice newcomers to the thread. Any advice to that effect will be gratefully received. Cheers
