Do You Support The Rmt Rail Strikes?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by shhweeet#4292, Jun 27, 2022.

  1. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    As railway enthusiasts and former railway workers in some cases do you support the RMT in their quest for a decent pay rise, protection of working conditions and rights, and their fight to protect their members jobs from compulsory redundancies. I’m surprised this question hasn’t been asked already on here? I can’t find a thread about it anyway.

    I know it’s a political question but this is the off topic section of a train enthusiasts forum where all things should be allowed to be discussed especially if it’s railway related or is it yet something else that will be cancelled or not allowed because it doesn’t suit the woke snowflakes of today. If we are allowed to talk about this and give our opinions, keep it civil, explain your reasons why you support the strikes or not, and allow others to legitimately respond even if you don’t necessarily agree with them.

    Bear in mind this dispute isn’t about train drivers who are generally regarded as well paid but about the lower paid jobs in the rail industry.
     
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  2. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely.

    As somebody who is a contractor for the railway, I have often (in the past) looked at FTE roles, however it does not make financial sense for me to do so.

    In fact, it’s actually quite shocking how low most roles actually pay, from Driving, to working on the tracks & in the stations, to working in admin.

    Personally I have been supporting these strikes and not taking up work on strike days, even though I am self employed.

    The people who keep this country moving (quite literally) don’t deserve to be struggling, and even then, shouldn’t such an industry, where the majority of roles require particular skill, be well paid anyway?
     
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  3. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Well-Known Member

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    I do support the rail strikes

    but I find my opinion irrelevant in this scernario, if the majority of workers of the rail support the idea to strike, then so they should be able to

    the government keeps upping their wages so why shouldn’t the transport industry’s be upped
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    To be fair (and stretch a point) the MPs don't set their own wages, they instigated a separate committee to do this some time ago. I think the main difference is that this committee is obliged to sit and obliged to give a finding no matter what else is going on, and I don't recall MPs ever refusing to accept the rises offered.
    Funny that
     
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  5. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    I support my British colleagues about the huge strike ongoing. We’re doing almost every month where I live on many lines and we have the same problem: low salary as there’s a big inflation ongoing and the quality at work has decreased as we don’t have the same recognition as before ( I remember with my coworkers being treated like a piece of sh*t by my superiors that were at their house while we were working during lockdowns ). Never give up and keep fighting for what you’re asking, United we stand
     
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  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    In the lawyer business that's what we call a "leading question."
     
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  7. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Leading question quite possibly but I have found an awful lot of people in this world need leading with regards to what this strike is actually about. How many people for example think this strike is mainly about train drivers wages, how many people think it’s all about the RMT specifically bringing down the Tory government as their main aim. Just two examples. Don’t get me started on the pretty clueless media and the so called totally unprofessional journalists / presenters who work for them. It’s no wonder Mick Lynch is coming out of all this with his credit and intelligence more intact.
     
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  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Isn't this true on just about any subject, especially when so many sources of opinion are available and people will "read opinion and see fact"?
     
  9. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    No, they are always striking for no reason. They are paid well compared to alot of people.
     
  10. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Well-Known Member

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    can’t be payed that well when your job is lost

    strikes aren’t just involving the drivers
     
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  11. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    I know that. I'm sick of rmt trying to hold us to ransom while they go on strike. We are all feeling the pinch. We just get on with it it. rmt are greedy and need to be held to account.
     
  12. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    It's not just about pay, it's about fire and rehire, it's about job cuts and the safety of the railways.

    The government is hellbent on cutting back station staff, shutting down ticket offices and reducing on-train staff. These are people who are responsible for the safety and well-being of thousands of passengers each day and can be expected to do anything from helping you catch your connection in time to saving your life. Guards and platform staff are still essential for many disabled and elderly passengers who need help boarding trains and are the first point of call for passengers who need assistance.

    Even safety-critical jobs at Network Rail are on the cutting board. Stonehaven 2020, Grayrigg 2007, Potters Bar 2002, and Hatfield 2000, were all the result of infrastructure management failures and yet Network Rail and the Government are trying to cut jobs as much as they can in the name of 'modernisation' which in reality will just lead to fewer staff covering a larger workload. In the wake of Stonehaven, this is sheer madness. Don't let them fool you that the RMT is resisting the introduction of new technology, they aren't, in fact, they actively campaign for it. What they are resisting is the use of technology being used as an excuse to get rid of railway staff.

    Lastly, the RMT does not believe that railway staff should be getting pay rises ahead of anyone else, they are incredibly consistent in their support of other Unions fighting for job security and fair wages across the country in all kinds of industries. Workers across the nation have seen their wages fail to keep pace with inflation. In real value terms, workers have been getting poorer and poorer for years and that is what the unions want to stop.

    So yeah, I support the strikes.
     
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  13. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    You might be happy with the working conditions of the rail sector.

    Personally, I find it to be a bit of a joke that only this year did network rail start *trying* to provide toilets on their worksites.

    There are many, many issues at play here, of which you have clearly displayed, you do not understand.
     
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I work in construction and there are loads of small construction sites where no welfare or toilet facilities are provided on site. Their RAMS would state that welfar emust be sought from local amenities or supermarkets.
    On major site or ones which go on for longer than maybe two weeks, then I would agree welfare on site should be provided, but in many cases it's just not needed
     
  15. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    There are some really weird aspects to how the railways are run, I remember some of the guys I've chatted to a few times at work talking about how they're actually given targets for how much revenue to bring in each day in penalty fares. That doesn't encourage people to do their jobs well or have a customer-first approach and the staff know that. There's always the chance that your phone dies and the sockets on the train don't work or that perhaps you've gotten on the wrong train and your ticket isn't valid. Being expected to hit a target in penalty fares is not going to encourage you to help that person is it?

    There have also been trials of replacing Automatic Ticket Barrier Operators with cameras and monitoring the barriers remotely. Sounds plausible on paper but the job of the operators isn't to check tickets, it's to ensure the barriers are used safely and efficiently. People are almost always getting luggage stuck in the barriers or have tickets that don't work, which holds people up, and in the case of things getting stuck can lead to injury or damage to the barriers. There is a reason why, whenever there isn't a barrier operator present the barriers will be opened, they simply cannot be managed properly without somebody there. Yet the companies are still trying to find a way to axe the job.
     
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  16. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I’d hazard a guess that it’s much easier to find a local WC, when working on a construction site, than it is when you’re working on tracks in the Scottish Highlands.

    Sure, driving around North Wales doing structure surveys for a couple of hours doesn’t require anything in the way of facilities, however pulling a 10 hour shift switching out pads, it’d be nice to at least have a welfare van & a toilet.

    It’s actually quite funny, working shifts for Amey, CRSA, Vital etc, you often find yourself better equipped and have access to better facilities, with better pay than Network Rail jobs.

    Talking purely from the trackside point of view, you’d struggle to find any track workers recommending that line of work, and usually that’s coming from the guys on salaried roles with NR.

    Again, it’s not just about that, the railway as a whole is a neglected industry.
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Do you think there aren't construction sites in the Scottish Highlands?
    Just wondering as that's a very strange answer

    And you think undertaking cement laying or doing drainage runs wouldn't have a similar requirement? Driving isn't the same as undertaking construction

    Amey - 2020 turnover €1.46billion. Not really that surprising

    I understand that, but there are many many many things more important than whether there's toilet facilities available at each worksite (which to be fair could be accommodated in the MOMs or engineer's vans
     
  18. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    My point was that tracks tend to be more remote than construction sites, and much less accessible. In any case workers from both industries should have access to basic facilities, especially when working on remote sites for extended periods.

    As for Amey, their rail sector certainly isn’t turning over that amount, and the way that Amey is currently being ran is a whole other discussion.

    We can go back and forth on the smaller points all week, but the simple fact is that the working conditions are subpar to say the least.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
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  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not disagreeing generally. Just seemed to be a weird point to pick up on
     
  20. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    I support the rail strikes. Members of the RMT do a good job the railway needs more worker's not less.
    I wish though commuters would strike about cost of rail tickets. As proven by the rail sale a few months ago it is possible to have cheaper rail tickets.
     
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  21. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I support their reasons to strike and right to strike. What I am a bit peeved about is the recent strikes which were every other day. Three days in a row would have been fairer to the public. As it was they disrupted the railway for 6 days but were on full pay and working for three of those. That isn't fair on the public and they would do well not to be so antagonistic they lose public support.

    Yes it was to maximise disruption, but doing so at the least expense to them and the most expense to the public, thats not really on in my book.
     
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  22. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Maximum disruption at the least expense to themselves who are on a rubbish wage compared to the cost of living and most expense to the public, ie the company’s / employers customers, for which read revenue that goes towards them pocketing big millions of pounds bonuses and massive dividends to the shareholders seems to me to be a well organised strike by the RMT or any union who would organise a strike like that.

    You go on strike as a last resort so you want to win it by forcing the management to get around the table and negotiate a proper fair outcome. Being soft isn’t going to win you anything and the managers would just laugh at you and let you carry on losing wages for however long you would be prepared to lose them.

    Yes it’s hard on the public who are the ones who end up suffering, but the public need to look at the bigger picture. After all it might be one of them one day who needs someone to stand up for them in the work place.
     
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  23. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    It isn't a joke wheh you hold the public to ransom. I love the railways, however i disagree when it comes to passengers being held for randsomn. Don't try and tell me what i understand.
     
  24. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    You love the railways yet without hard working properly paid staff fully trained in how to run them safely etc you wouldn’t have a railway that any of us could really claim to love. Many will be forced to possibly leave the industry as many members of the public sanctimoniously say they should ( Like it’s that easy getting proper paid contract work these days ) to be replaced by fly by night even more poorly paid and less well trained desperate for work agency workers on zero hours contracts working long exhausting hours covering two or three peoples jobs etc.

    Dunno about you? but that’s not a railway model I’d want to love and probably more to the point a railway I’d like myself or my family to want to travel on because safety would be put at increased risk. The owners, higher management, and share holders won’t be bothered about any of that though whilst they are all sunning themselves somewhere exotic and making merry drinking and partying on a beach whilst counting their bucket loads of cash.

    I mean it’s not just the railway industry who is under this diabolical threat from greedy miss management in the endless pursuit of massive profits at all costs for those at the top, it’s happening in lots of industry’s. If putting up with disruption is the price the public has to pay for the ordinary worker to be able to fight back surely that a small price to pay for every working person including members of the general public to get a fair days pay and decent working practices A lot of people might disagree? but I think they are just selfish with an I’m alright Jack attitude which is fine if those same people weren’t the first to whinge and moan about companies being run down, services reduced and safety compromised when the inevitable accidents and reduced service happen.

    [edit by Protagonist - watch the language]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2022
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  25. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    :|It would appear ASLEF the train drivers union have voted to go on strike now. Probably going to get a lot of flack from the public because they are pretty well paid at 60,000 a year and their argument is harder to justify. Still it’s all relevant I suppose because they haven’t had an effective pay rise for 3 years, In reality they have taken a pay cut whilst those at the top have been absolutely raking it in for themselves and their shareholders and there is the problem at the end of the day. It’s the total imbalance between management and shareholders and the foot soldiers who do the everyday work and make the profit.

    There is a sea change happening these days where unions quite rightly are fighting on behalf of their members for their fair share of the pie when it comes to wages v profit along with all the other issues like job cuts, fire and rehire, safety arguments etc. ASLEF might well find it harder to justify their forthcoming strike action to the public but the bigger picture is so much bigger and worth fighting for and enduring the disruption if the gap between those at the top and bottom in UK industry isn’t going to be even more exploited on a daily basis.

    Off topic. I see my previous reply has been edited because I used a swear word abeit not actually used but hinted at using stars even though the swear word is part of a well known phrase here on the UK so was perfectly valid to use as far as I’m concerned. I mean censored, finger wagged, and admonished like a naughty primary school child for that? Really! I was careful not to use the word in full but even hinting at a word by using stars is not allowed in these politically correct / woke over sensitive times. Sigh! Yes younger people use this forum but let’s get real here, they know far more worse words and phrases. than I ever will . Sod climate change ( And yes I know that’s important ) a more immediate and just as important and scary threat is constant attacks on all aspects of politically incorrect none wokery society. Sad times. :( I’ll probably get another ban now for saying all this? If so then so be it. Ridiculous!:|
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2022
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  26. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I don't support strike over pay. There's millions of people in this country that are payed shite wages and have no say in it. And i mean shite like 20k a year or less for a lot more work!

    Conditions and safety yea maybe.

    Putting the whole country in shite with the strikes I'm against.

    I can't remember the country but their bus drivers weren't happy with the company, instead of leaving a load of commuters in the learch they let every one travel for for free costing the company millions. They soon agreed to the staffs terms.

    They are lucky they have a union! There's not many left. Last job interview I went on was going great. Looked like the position was mine, then I mentioned union and that was the end of that career!
     
  27. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I know that the drivers were talking about still doing the job, only to the letter though, no OT/favours/anything outside of their contract.

    I do think that those striking over a 60k salary will only undermine what the rest of the industry is after, and to an extent, other industrial action taking place in other sectors.

    I don’t see much support happening for this, and funnily enough, most the drivers I’ve spoke to (mainly DB, GBRF & Freightliner mind) aren’t interested in this action (or at least aren’t willing to admit to it).

    Of course the TOC’s that do underpay their drivers are liable to see strikes, however there is more room for drivers to move between TOC’s that offer pay on the higher end of the spectrum, so that may resolve itself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2022
  28. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    It’s all in the rules you agreed to:
    Source
     
  29. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Ahh fair cop I guess. I should have known there was some woke rule in the terms and conditions somewhere.
     
  30. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Creative Director Staff Member

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    So you're aware I created those rules in 1998 when I first joined the games industry. Yes, including the use of asterisks in place of letters in order to bypass any language filtering.

    The reason for not allowing swearing is very simple. It's far less about stopping little Timmy seeing naughty words, far more about little Timmy's mother seeing what he's reading then phoning up the Daily Mail to complain about the scandalous behaviour a video game company is promoting. Also, if you can't express yourself without swearing, try harder.
     
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  31. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Well the slide into political correctness and wokery didn’t just start overnight it’s being building up slowly over a good number of years. Ha! ironic then that little Timmy’s mothers and probably fathers of this world along with little Timmy as well probably use colourful and descriptive swearing themselves sometime in their every day life although good lord should the ever be stupid enough to ever admit it. Even those who have nothing better to do with their sad lives lives than complain to the Daily Mail are guilt as charged. I bet if your honest you do as well sometimes. The perfect moral human being has never been born yet which is why this politically correct woke society we have endure now in our daily lives is trying to constantly brow beat everyone into a force manufactured Stepford clone of supposed perfection??? Filtering out swearing? I say your filtering out real life and that is seriously scary and quite depressing tbh.

    Anyway moving on and back on topic. Whats your view on the recent rail strikes and possible forthcoming strikes that look like happening in other industries? Or are you not allowed to comment. ;)
     
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  32. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Creative Director Staff Member

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    I personally come from a long lineage of trade unionists. DTG have not officially taken a position.

    On the subject of language, there's a time and a place for it. Has absolutely nothing to do with political correctness. Please consider yourself warned anyway, if you can't keep it clean you may find yourself suspended.
     
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  33. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    I dont support them. My other half is a nurse. If anyone should get decent pay, it should be them. Just imagine if nurses were just as greedy and striked
     
  34. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    The majority of people will agree with you 100% including me but that doesn’t mean other people in other lines of work shouldn’t fight their corner in their particular industry.

    Divide and conquer is what these unscrupulous managers, owners, and governments seek to achieve, don’t play into their hands.
     
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  35. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Well-Known Member

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    The train industry has many more professions than the driver. Something of which the government seems to try hard not to mention.

    On the point of the health service though, I wouldn’t regard them as greedy for a strike and would assume they would use it as a last resort.
     
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  36. zefreak

    zefreak Active Member

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    Of course I support the strikes, and anyone who thinks they are bad because they disrupt public life doesn't understand bargaining or labour history. Support your fellow workers.
     
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Please. I’m about the opposite of ‘woke,’ and one definite Old School rule is that swearing is bad form.
     
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  38. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Bad form if used frequently within a sentence and for every sentence as your main source of communication. Agreed.

    Not bad form if used sparingly to quote a well known and often used phrase or to drive home a particular point especially if a compromise had been made using stars. Descriptive swear words have been part of the English language since a Noah was a lad. It’s as much a form of legitimate communication as anything else. To deny it and censor it when used in this way because someone takes offence to it is to deny the real world and to pretend we all live in some sort of parallel perfect universe.
     
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  39. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    All well and good, but that is actually illegal in the UK, so the Unions quite literally cannot take that course of action.
     
  40. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I guess it was probably illegal in, I'm sure it was Italy.

    Don't get me wrong if they want to strike for a cause, that's their right. I just don't see the strikes affecting any one but the public.
     
  41. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    It was in Japan if I’m not mistaken
     
  42. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I think you're right there.

    Thanks.
     
  43. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    It's unavoidable really, the only way to 'force' the hand of Train Operating Companies is really to take away as much of their income as you can.

    You can negotiate all you want but if Unions aren't willing to strike then they would have no cards with which to play.

    The Unions have to be willing to commit to striking otherwise the TOCs will simply refuse to take the Unions seriously.

    Yes, the public gets caught in the crossfire, but if the TOCs are unwilling to offer an acceptable resolution, what other choice do the Unions have?
     
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  44. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    Support and solidarity to all workers on strikes, and especially those who have to face not only the leeching, parasitic corporate employers sucking the life out of them, but also a deeply reactionary and conservative British media that is hostile to all efforts of progress, economic welfare and recognition of working-class people in the UK while spewing lies about rail workers' salaries and demands, twisting debates into directions aimed at creating division among workers and the rest of the public, and licking the boots of political and economic elites by uncritically adopting their talking points. Mick Lynch and his union are absolute legends for knowing exactly what they are fighting for in the face of a decade of Tory austerity and neoliberal economy that has subjected working people to ever-shrinking material conditions for the benefit of private profit maximisation for a few.

    Novara's Barnarby Raine put it perfectly, we all live in the corporate media's "ideological framing that's hardly ever challenged on TV, where poverty is very sad until people start doing something about it, and then they become the villains".



     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
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  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes all I can do is chuckle at pathetic old tankies pretending they aren't irrelevant, still tossing around the rhetoric of 1968
     
  46. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    One can only despise complete nobodies serving the ideology of the parasitic fat cats like the ones mentioned above, by littering online discussion spaces with non-arguments sprinkled with Stockholm Syndrome and directed at other working-class people in service of those ripping everyone else off.
     
  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Che is dead. So is Marxism. Get over it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  48. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    Imagine being so insecure that even though you know you can only come up with slogans illustrating the sorry state of your intellect and integrity, you can't help but keep self-screening publicly. Pathetic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Imagine being so lacking in argument that one has nothing left but childish insults.
     
  50. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The internet at it's finest
     

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