So I've been looking at some of Just Trains products on their website and I've been thinking, gosh these are expensive! Like is it worth to pay 32.99 USD (45.80 Australian Dollars) for a Class 222 for example? However it just may feel expensive to me since I'm only a 14 year old who doesn't have a job.
Do what other people do and wait for a Sale - they had one over Christmas The 222 is also on Steam so it will feature in their sales - at one point it was down to £12.09
Just Trains are quality products but some are more expensive. They do have a few sales, but the products in the sale are selective, so you may have to pay full price if you desperately want something that doesn’t appear in any sales. Recent sales have mainly concentrated on Midland Main Line and it’s add ons and a few locomotives and not a lot else.
I also do tend to find they are on the pricier side, so I haven’t indulged too much, sticking to one or two MML routes, the 222 and have just treated myself to the 20! Are the routes that much better than DTG? Or more miles per route? You get a fair number of scenarios, but also with them a fair number of dependencies.
I also find their prices a bit expensive... and even worse is the list of dependencies. I only recently bought one of their routes but on Steam. The Frankfurt U-Bahn has been on my wish list since it became available on Steam. This past sale was the best price I ever saw for it, so I grabbed it right away. No dependencies. The route is fantastic in every way. It has me wondering if all their routes are this good. I am now watching their site for sales, though the last sale did not have anything that caught my eye.
Biggest problem with JT pricing is their older (and by todays standards) inferior products are still sold at full price, quite frankly the quality (or lack thereof) should be reflected in the products pricing now.
I do wish they would also have a full Website sale. I mean, if you have sold less than five units at a retail price of $30 USD, you're better off dropping it to half price and potentially selling twenty units at that. In the end, you make more money than you did at retail price for something that would otherwise be sitting there gathering dust.
The worst offender is the S7+1 and S8 stock packs. £21.99 each yet the only difference is an extra coach and some minor interior differences in passenger view... You would have thought they'd be sold as one combined pack. Worst still, if you buy the Metropolitan line you need to buy the S stock separately or pay more for the bundle that contains it, despite it being shown in all the screenshots (I bet that has caught a few people out).
The Scottish ECML being an example where there is levitating grass above the platforms at Dundee station - you have to turn off procedural flora temporarily to deal with it. One additional point about JT products is that they are only licensed for one computer, I think, since you have to sign in during the installation process. I presume if you tried to install on a second PC, it might not let you? (Happy to be proven wrong here, as I’ve never tried it.) At the risk of sounding like I’m indulging in too much JT bashing, apologies, I do find that the summer foliage is just too green: it’s rather overpowering and doesn’t look natural.
I'd love to buy Metropolitan Line but I'll wait until a) comes to Steam or b) comes down in price. Thanks to this thread, I think I am going to do a run on Frankfurt U-Bahn.
They do work when reinstalling to another PC (I think the limit is 5 reinstalls/activations) but knowing JT they'll happily give you a new access code/permission if you contact them and explain the situation.
The Met line is available on steam, although at the exact same price. Another thing that should be mentioned is that although some JT products are on steam, they don't always have the same content as what's included on the website based versions, or aren't always the most recent version of a product if updated. So be careful if buying via steam (even though they do go on sale more frequently there).
Fortunately the Frankfurt U-Bahn on Steam is the exact same as on their site, but was at a much better price. I will check out Metropolitan. My biggest gripe is that some routes have far too many dependencies and the prices tend to be higher. Just completed a run on Frankfurt U-Bahn and I must say, this route feels complete. They have all 9 lines and it is fun to drive. Stop announcements are great. I heard WCML Trent Valley also has stop announcements... I shall play that later this evening.
I don't have the Frankfurt U-Bahn route yet, but I've heard good things though. Tempted to give it a try next sale particularly because of the tram-trains and announcements, even though German routes aren't really my thing. Just beware with WCML Trent Valley the announcements only work with the included Class 350 which is somewhat limiting.
JT products are top notch, and unfortunately to do that well all the time costs money. For the level of care and attention they provide, it's justified against other DLCs I think.
People often sort by discount or price, which may lead to them purchasing predominantly old / poor / basic content. Removing price from the decision will enable them to freely choose the content matching their interest, based on topic and quality. Discriminatory monopoly works okay if you blanket discount everything based on age, up to a cap. Still, it encourages people to wait. (I guess DTG has some comparative info after their latest Steam sale, having applied full discount.) Not sure which is better, I think (have read) I'm not alone with overpurchasing during sales. You get more individual items but you play them much less (or not at all eventually), so they aren't cheaper per hour, often the opposite.
I stil have plenty of things bought over 2020-21 I haven't yet touched, so have plenty to keep me going for a long time. Therefore I was much more restrained over this last sale. As you say, there is a risk of buying stuff you won't use - I was sorely tempted to indulge in some of the German routes on sale, but the paucity of space on my SSD helped steer me to a sensible decision to leave them for now. In terms of full price, I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the items I have paid full price for, and still have a finger or two spare, iirc. This first thing I paid full price for was the AP Class 411/2, then I think one or two JT MML routes, and their Class 20. With sales happening every few months, there's no real need to pay full price.
They don't have a list of dependencies apart from the extra Scenarios YOU have a choice of running the Default Scenario which only require the EL&AP which most people have IF you want to have different stock Alternative Scenarios are provided but that costs money - only if you have not already got them And it was not likely to have any extra dependencies as it is totally stand alone route. Although other U-Bahn sets are available so you could call them extras
I am guilty of buying too much during sales, and even ocasionally buying some DLC not on sale. This is because for some reason I just like having lots of DLC, I like collecting them and it just feels satisfying to have and then play some of them, I have a couple routes and trains which I just have not yet touched too, but I always feel the need to get more. (Which is a bad habit, my wallet does not forgive me for this)
OMG Nice to know I am not alone. I only stumbled across TS20xx at the start of the Covid lockdown in early 2020. Since then I must have spent close on £2000 on this new found hobby. Must admit I don't regret a penny. I come home from work now and just chose a country /route / scenario that suits my mood and just go for it. I admit I am very fortunate that I am in the later years of life and have now accumulated a rather large play fund. Pre Covid I would be down the local pub spending probably £15 per night (in my local that is 3 pints) Times that by 30 days and it is a staggering £450 per month. Invest that in TS & I now own the entire AP catalogue / most of the DT / SSS / CW catalogues and still have change from what i would have ususally spent down the pub. I appreciate there are young / non working folks that also play this game and can not afford to throw shed loads of cash at it all at once. To you guys I would just say choose wisely / buy wisely, and like myself "HAMMER THE SALES"
Overpurchasing is not a big problem but it would be most effective if TS had some kind of a dynamic system to use them as AI, even in core scenarios. Having so much content means I mostly just run career and workshop. Quick Drive fanatics have it, mostly. In this sense old DLC (like those soon coming back, unless High Iron is busy creating) is best, since I had to create my own consists. Or even the SP F7 freight shots, I'll use the Cab Forward stock with it. So, well, as mentioned earlier, JT is practically fine and dandy, as they do include their trains in a nice, versatile way. It's just that maybe a subscription model would work better. Admittedly I've spent a significant amount (nearly 10000€) on physical models 2018-2020 (only to find out they are so finicky, I stopped).
I think I have too much stuff I was running out of space and I binned the RSC/DTG US Routes and locos by unticking them Even then I'm at 780GB + on my TS22 installation
Looking on the bright side, you're not going to run out of room space as you would for a model railway!
Content in US dollars isn't really that expensive – now AP, as much as I love their content, when you convert pounds into Australian dollars, then that's expensive - however well worth it in a sale
Look at it this way, think of TS as kinda like a model railway, only way cheaper. Most models are around AU$350 for one loco and AU$150 for a couple of carriages/wagons. You could buy a heap of TS content for that, especially in a sale.
The next stage will be the links supplied with freeware routes or realistic scenarios and you're like "ooh, I've got that already, and that and.. Oh didn't even know I had that... or that"..
Indeed, when you look at the cost of models, think what you would get for the equivalent price with TS….
It's nice to look in my library and find a route I forgot I had. I could never get bored of this simulator.
As an Australian myself, I must admit for the quality you get from AP products, it's definitely a fair price, for example most AP enhancements that are top quality cost around 20 australian dollars, where as an average quality Just Trains Product would go for around 30-45 dollars!
I think the only route I have from Just Trains is Franfurth U-Bahn... unless another one of my DLC purchased through Steam are from Just Trains. I am very pleased with this route. They put a lot of care into creating an incredible and complete route.
Here's a list of Just Trains items on Steam, there are loco's and wagons in there as well I couldn't narrow down the search to just routes unfortunately. >> Just Trains Steam content
In my opinion, Just Trains routes can make a great route, or a terribly lazy bad one. For example, like you mentioned Frankfurt U-Bahn is good however Just Trains DLC like Sheffield - Derby and Leicester - Derby (according to the reviews) Aren't that good at all.
I don't know what reviews you've found, but most people would say that JT's Midland Mainline collection is very good, to be considered amongst their best products. I've got all of Midland Mainline except Barrow Hill and I would give them an easy 8/10.
It's the Steam reviews I've been seeing, people say that there are floating platforms and objects, assets don't show up, scenarios dont work, etc. However this could be because of issues with Dovetail altering files when Just Trains gave them the route to put on Steam. For example every single review I have seen for the Sheffield - Derby route on Steam is negative, same goes for Leicester - Derby.
Perhaps this is worse with older routes? See some discussion of floating grass, etc, on the Scottish ECML here: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/justtrains-scottish-ecml.33272/
You don't get anything with TS, nothing physical. Those models will always have 2nd hand sale value. Computer games and addons, you don't even own them. The respective vendors, loan them to you.
At least a good half-dozen in there best purchased direct from JT, and two I would suggest not to even give the time of day in Marylebone and Chiltern. Heck, JT still prices Chiltern at a full $42 USD and it's one of the less well-reviewed routes from them, mainly due to its age and the fact it's rightfully not worth that much today. As examples, do not buy South Devon and Cornish from Steam. Just get the original Western Mainlines and add on both routes direct from JT for the full Paddington to Penzance route. Or get Western Mainlines itself and download BHBP after picking up other requirements. That will get you the full route anyway, except for the Oxford to Bicester branch (I don't think BHBP heads up to Oxford ATM). Hard to believe, but true. BTW, Danny apparently tried to do a merge using South Devon when it first came out on Steam. I think people attacked him for that one and he wound up taking it down. Not sure if he tried to merge it with SWE or with Cornish - likely the latter - but now that I think of it, if computers can handle it, merging South Devon and Cornish with SWE might be an interesting idea. Not sure how many services would run from Penzance, or even Plymouth, to the new locations on SWE, but it would not be a merge to add Reading since Western Mainlines and BHBP already clear that one. And now that I think more about it as I type this up, I think BHBP covers the entire route (I mean, SWE is a requirement).
I think they've been reviewing a different product from the one JT sold to me. Maybe it's a problem with the Steam version. You've also got to question the judgement of a reviewer who criticises a route for being 36 miles long when it's clearly sold as being 36 miles long. What else did they expect?
I tend to take Steam reviews with a grain of salt. They seem to be overwhelmingly negative. If I were to go by them, I would never buy anything. I have seen DLCs where the reviews have people claiming it's a mess and unplayable while others say its great and perfect. It is not a good measure to me. If anything, a DLC which receives a great deal of praise may actually be a good DLC since the overwhelming sentiment in Steam reviews of Train Simulator products is negative. I would much rather read this forum and watch YouTube videos to make my decisions. And yes, there is more to a route than the length... and if that reviewer was so concerned, why did he buy it when it clearly states the length? My love for this hobby grows by the day and this forum is extremely helpful.
Personally I don't think JT products are expensive compared with other 3rd party creators for TS22. The route prices seem about right and mostly align with DTG prices. Ok, their older routes like SECML could be reduced due to their age but their newer routes like MML are actually fantastic products and very detailed in most areas. There are a couple of niggly areas on said routes (flora across tracks at some points) but it is well done. Their class 220 and voyager advanced trains are great and have good sounds. I've had many hours of play from their MML add-ons and it is definitely better to buy direct from them as you get extra scenarios using the AP and JT train packs, whereas on Steam you only get the scenarios using default stock and the routes cannot be merged. Another good thing about JT is that when you buy from them, you get points which can be redeemed against future purchases.
