Doesn't Dtg Have An Amtrak License Any More?

The reason I ask is a Kansas high speed freight route with Amtrak's premier Southwest Chief train would be a tremendous idea for a route.

Because it will keep the freight buffs happy whilst serving the passenger popularity trend currently steering DTG's route choice flow.

The Southwest Chief runs from Chicago to Los Angeles and having it in rural Kansas would be similar to what DTG did with the LNER ECML Peterborough to Doncaster route which I love.

 

Why would that mean DTG’s agreement with Amtrak is somehow changed ? It hasn’t changed just because theirs potentially a route they could look into doing.

 

Spending a ton of dev resources just to create a whole trainset for only 2 services makes it undesirable at the moment. It hasn't got to do anything with the licenses. It's a cost to gameplay ratio

 

You mean Cajon Pass and La Plata?

 

BRUH

DTG
VISITED
AMTRAKS
YARD
WHEN
THEY
WENT
TO
LA
FOR
THE
METROLINK
RESEARCH
TRIP

 

While I understand the sentiment - the dev cost to game play ratio is really abstracted from a companies concern. The ratio any company should be concerned about is Dev time to sales. Just because there are only 2 services a day, nothing is stopping people from running those two services multiple times a day, or everyone buys the product because it is in high demand. I agree replayability adds to the desirability of a product, and is not insignificant, but other factors make up a product desirability

 

unless a 2 services route is guaranteed to sell very well, I wouldn’t expect them. The train enthusiast side of that’s how it is that’s the experience isn’t going to overrule the main reason for dlc (the income) that’s the decision factor on said routes.

 

I was responding to developing a train set as the OP commented on, not the whole route. I think we all agree, the bottom line is the total sales of a product which is the decision point for developing any product.

 

no problem just picked up on this section that’s all

 

Would 2 passenger services really matter if its a freight route anyway?

 

It’s related to sales what matters, if a route has only 2 passenger services it’s appeal to anyone who isn’t fully interested in seeing that route reduces, affecting sales and DTG’s willingness to invest in such a route to make it possible.

why do a route what has 2 when you can do another what has more and sells better will be what DTG can take from that.

 

I was thinking more that this type of route would attract those who like freight.

 

If DTG were to make an Amtrak trainset that would run on TSW's current freight routes like Cajon or SPG, I'm convinced it would sell like hot cakes, especially among US players but also among many Europeans.

I doesn't matter how many trips it makes. With even the imperfect tools like the free roam, formation designer and scenario editor, players will run it anywhere and as often as they care to.

A long distance Amtrak trainset would be day one for me and, I suspect, many, many others.

 

To be fair I would buy an Amtrak Superliner set and suitable loco pack, if it layered on to all the existing routes with passenger service.

 

I mean, I wouldnt say no to a modern Amtrak trainset, like Charger 44 and Venture cars... like this:

yeah, Amtrak finally sees nice EU cars and decides to get some and get rid of those old tin cans they had till now... not everywhere, but gradually

 

The only real problem I see with long distance Amtrak stuff on existing routes, is that most routes would need to be revised to handle passengers, as I don't think any spawn on most routes where they would appear. The stations on SPG, Cajon and Horseshoe Curve are empty.

Though if they were to get redone, then you would have people waiting on the platforms for a train that comes only twice a day.

 

It's worth noting the Airo Trainset will only be used on a handful of services, mainly those that currently use the Amfleets or Viewliner cars. Amtrak still doesn't have a replacement for the Superliner I's and II's yet.

 

yes, Airo... but also this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_Venture

hopefully US government puts some more dollars into passenger rail as they did last year and such, since they see how far behind is US compared to lets say EU in terms of passenger rail... like, some corridors are modern and well equipped (rolling stock, safety systems, speeds, frequency etc), and some are like having nothing at all

hell, even Slovak rail, as much flak as it sometimes gets, is relatively present in most areas and has decent service... my profile pic has Stadler Kiss 160, and I wish we had more of those... end of off topic rant

 

I wouldn’t say it’s the minimal number of services as the attract factor, it just depends on the route and stock, but still depends entirely on whether it sells well or not the most.

 

Personally I think a route with very low number of services probably anything under 20-15 isn’t very appealing to myself unless it’s a route I’m particularly interested in, when the alternative is a different route with more services I’m not going to favour a route with less.

in all honesty I often see a route to be quite quiet as anything under 200, it gets very noticeable on those routes.

 

if the service is good, then I can still replay it to death... like with new own liveries... or so... like BR 101 on Koln Aachen ... actually I love now how Rosenheim Salzburg has tons of services for that one

 

So because they aren’t adding a route you want it means they’ve lost the license?

 

same service multiple times i see as getting boring very quickly, just my thoughts though, my usual thing with TSW is to go through my collection select what I want and do a service what’s undone, any service done is something I avoid, unless it’s the only option and I really want to drive that train.

more than happy to do them again once I get the other stuff I’ve never done done, (thats very unlikely to happen I have thousands to do) but then it’s not the same as i wouldn't keep selecting the same service it would be just as mixed.

 

The problem is that there's no one size fits all. From what I've read, there are numerous different passenger coaches dtg would have to model which takes a lot of effort. If the same 1 coach was used everywhere, then it would be easier but it's not

 

Amtrak over the first fifty years of its existence lost a billion dollars each and every year. That comes to-- 50 billion dollars. Last year our railfan President sank 66 billion dollars- that's more than the total Amtrak red-ink sea accumulated over half a century- to do... what? Shrink the United States? Increase its population density? Conjur passengers out of thin air?

Intercity passenger rail is not economically viable in the United States, outside a few special cases, like the NEC. We are not Europe, we do not have large populations crammed together in a small space. Passenger rail was not only dying by 1970, it was collapsing so hard it threatened to bankrupt the entire rail industry - THAT is why Amtrak was created- to get the passenger-rail monkey off the industry's back and put it on the taxpayer's. And, no, new shiny trains and multiple services per day won't change that, if there is nobody willing to buy a ticket. Nobody is going to spend 20 hours on a train when they could fly the distance in two.

 

probably not without proper changes being done, a lot of “core issues” with American infrastructure, ownership, urban planning, more trains isn’t the solution like, at least not with them issues.

America has an interesting possibly devastating future for the transport sector, especially if electric cars aren’t all they are trumped up to be, it’s what comes of investing a large part in non renewables (cars/fuel) suppose it’s similar to oil rich countries in the Middle East, oil’s drying up no matter what so what’s your income.

 

well, the way some stations and corridors are built in the US, I am not surprised it went that way... redundantly huge parking lots near stations, stations in the middle of nowhere or near highways, with little to no facilities... and I could go on and on

if it is done well and conveniently, the passenger numbers will eventually rise... I know Austria isnt very good example in terms of proportions, but look at how they do stuff... stations in even very small town, nice stations, easily accessible, with adequate (not overbloated) parking lots, accessible by wheelchairs etc etc... convenient access, good ticketing, frequent and nice/comfy service...

US, if they put their minds to it, could do it... they could be even better playground for highspeed and other passenger rail than China, but they mostly just hurl excuses left and right... if passenger rail is done right, it eventually also persuades ppl that even living outside biggest population centres makes sense cos they can commute and travel nicely

and passenger rail cannot compete at super long ranges with air travel, however, if we talk a couple hundred miles and such, it can be a good option, also cos it doesnt have the hassle with baggage control and such

oh well, I guess this is a topic for another debate... I keep track of advancements in US passenger rail, Amtrak's efforts for coming yrs to bring its fleet closer to modern standards, and I keep my fingers crossed they do well... US deserves at least decent service in rail

 

Being condescending and acting like a 3 year-old child isn't really going to help your case.

 

sometimes I say that Amtrak/US rail ppl should come visit even Slovakia, or better, Wien Hauptbahnhof and spend some days using Vienna / Nahverkehr Ostregion railways to see how sh.t is done... now THAT is how you do excellent rail... also Vienna International Airport station and how it connects to IC network and such :P

 

K

 

The main train stations used to be downtown. They went broke.

None of your recommendations will alter the fact that New York and Chicago are 1200 km apart

 

I have. In fact, I grew up in Germany. Those excellent regional rail networks exist because there are enough people to create demand. Low population density = few passengers, and it doesn't matter how nice the trains are.

 

Fact to point is, the US has developed at a point where intercity transport only really benefit corridors where there is higher urban density in close proximity to each other, and most places you cant get anywhere without the use of a motor vehicle.

 

Slightly OT but in the UK electric cars are being used as justification for the massive hike in motor insurance premiums. My current insurer wanted to virtually triple last years premium from just over £200 to £600. They refused to haggle so shopped around for another provider but still costing me over £400 which is more than double. Apparently anything more than a scuff or minor damage and they're written off. I have a hybrid but apparently this is being applied across all vehicles including pure petrol/diesel.

Basically they want people off the road at which point decent public transport, both in town and inter city becomes essential!

 

never been but I would say go see Luxembourg, free public transport is a dream for England

 

lets take Hainburg an der Donau as a little case - a small town on Danube, roughly 7k ppl... it has 3 stations (then there is also terminus Wolfsthal of a little over 1k ppl)... this small town lies on a railway that is modern version of oooold Pressburg-Vienna tram/train line... it has 2 trains to Vienna per hour on most days... which take you to very heart of Vienna (Wien Mitte, Praterstern and such) in a little over an hour in a nice, comfy, fast train:

(near Hainburg - Personenbahnhof, on a viaduct near Danube/Donauradweg)

which means it is great "haven" for those who lets say want to work in Vienna or at the airport but not live in the middle of the hustle of a big city... if you dont really have to check the schedule and have this kind of service, you are encouraged not to use your car as often (plus Vienna itself has one of the best transport networks not only in Europe, but in global terms)

maybe I am a bit naive, but who would use a car when you could take such a nice train blasting 100 mph at times (this one specifically goes nuts when it rounds the Schwechat Rafinerie, for example)

 

well, public passenger rail is almost never a thing that earns money by the heaps, and if it is treated as sth that should earn tons of money, it is bound to fail... it is a service and it should be taken as such... again, Austria and a lot of Europe... like, Lower Austria is mostly made of small towns and villages and yet they have a very decent rail service... the rail is sustained so they have access also to job markets lets say in Vienna and such

if you can move ppl, it will eventually benefit the economy even if the rail itself loses money

 

not to get too political but things for the benefit of people and not economy in America is probably way too “communist” for there liking, and if it requires political support to get things done well at least half the country is going to have issues by how the big 2 parties are split almost 50/50

 

True. The hassle of flying, even domestically, means that routes like Chicago to Milwaukee, St Louis, Indianapolis and other Midwestern cities are very viable and economical. And the same is true for East and West coast cities. Plus Bright line wants to link Vegas and LA with high speed rail.

Speaking of long distance routes, there are plans to link New York and Dallas and increased service between Chicago and the Twin Cities among other projects.

Passenger rail is not all doom and gloom in the US.

Most every country in the world subsidizes its passenger rail, including the UK and Germany. So Amtrak is not the poor relation it is painted to be by some on the forum.

 

You're very fond of telling us how things are " hard work " or " too hard " for DTG to do. As if the folks in Chatham are terminally tired and worn out from their labors.
Since you're obviously very tight with those guys, maybe you could encourage them a little instead of constantly apologizing for things they " can't do "?

Dollars to donuts they would welcome you cheering them on.

 

At 250km/hr that's just under five hours. What's city centre to city centre by air, including check-in? Ok, to get speeds like that would require massive investment, but it's not impossible.

 

Well I'm stating facts. Matt explained why a p42 with every single coach isn't a wise use of resources for how much you get out of it

 

If you're talking sales, I already suggested that such a train set would likely be very popular this side of the pond and maybe the other side too. No-one can predict how well something would sell with certainty, but sometimes you have to run it up the flagpole and see who salutes. Maybe it'll turn out to be a dud or, just maybe, a roaring success. DTG isn't a tiny company on the razor's edge. They can afford to take a chance now and then.

If you're talking gameplay, I would venture most players would know how to run it on a number of routes already in the game and it could be layered in to others either now or in future routes.

If you're talking fun, I think we'd have our share of that. People having fun is the wisest use of resources I can think of in a video game.

Anyway, well -meaning though you may be, you're not actually DTG ( I think ). So let's have them tell us why things are " too hard " or " are too much effort " or " not a wise use of resources ".

 

how many coaches are we talking here ? More than 5 ?

 

It would be the following.....

GE P42DC (Loco)
Viewliner Baggage Car
Superliner II Transition Sleeper
Superliner I/II Sleeper
Superliner I/II Diner
Superliner I/II Lounge
Superliner I/II Coach
Superliner I/II Baggage Coach.

However, each variation of the Superliners share mostly the same exterior shape (Most differences would be Windows and doors) and trucks (Aside from the I vs II baring the trucks) so most of the work would be the interior of each car.

The Waggon Union MD-76 trucks of the Superliner I vs the GSI-G70 trucks of the Superliner II.

 

Americans (including Canadians and Mexicans) and Australians and even New Zealanders with a similar sized land mass to Japan don't use trains like Europeans and Asians. In Japan trains cover a huge majority of the country and are very convenient.

Even I hate driving in Australia I would rather drive a car/SUV/truck/etc than touch public transport which is riddled with anti social behaviour. And also it takes you 200% longer to get to your destination on public transport.

Even on Train Sim World I catch myself driving Glossop or Main Spessart Bahn rather than American freight which I enjoy. You need to allow 1-2 hours for american freight where you can do the glossop in half an hour etc.

I just wish it would be a 3:1 ratio which Matt I think even said sometime ago.

For every 3 American routes you would get 1 freight or freight/passenger.

Anyhow it will happen sooner or later. Either DTG, 3rd party or a community effort where people contribute either money to make the 3d objects or build them and donate to the route construction.

 

I would also observe that DTG have yet to find it necessary to include every coach in a standard passenger consist; notoriously no dining or cafe cars on UK trains, and German ICs with just 1st and 2d class coaches (or for OBB, just 2d class!)

 

250 thats what considered economical by DB aka what they consider is economically viable to build or upgrade to, but thats Germany... in US you could easily do much more... modern Shinkansen sets and similar ones, can do 300 or even 350, so that means even less travel time... of course, it is also more expensive to build

 

also Dallas to Houston is very likely... if not Amtrak, then Brightline... look how fast they managed to get the Florida route going, even extending service to Orlando, and now that is some nice distance, doing over 200 kmh over long stretches with modern diesel MU beats me how Brightline managed to negotiate with freight companies and get a deal to use some of their tracks so quickly and seemingly so easily

it can be done if there is will (and money of course )... and pride, lets not discount this aspect - if you provoke enough ppl saying EU is better in something than EU, then you might get a "hold my beer" effect US worse than Germany in sth? Hold my beer, I will build a 1500 km highspeed madness

 

Miami to Orlando is just over 200 miles. Dallas to Houston and LA to Vegas roughly the same. There are some highly particular routes where passenger rail might be viable: people will put up with a two-hour train trip.

But a comprehensive nationbwide passenger rail network? We had one. Used to have the biggest on earth. Hardly a small town in America that didn't have rail access. And you know what? It went broke. Complete fiscal collapse. There just isn't the demand to support it.