Donner Pass

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by Cyclone, Jun 28, 2021.

  1. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    So this is a bit of a technical report on the Donner Pass route. I just recently decided to tackle the four heavy-duty long scenarios that come with the pack. The result is a very interesting report on technical issues with the scenarios themselves. Sure, I had a faulty signal here and there in the first scenario, but my report covers a major aspect of the scenarios: the Career versions were written with the wrong track timings in mind. Seriously, stay with me on this.

    1) Donner Pass

    The first scenario can be summed up in two screenshots. I ran the standard version of the scenario because I can't see why anyone would subject themselves to a 215 minute Career scenario willingly. Here is a summary of the two images you are about to see: it is expected you will complete a run that requires over 3 hours in 167 minutes to score any points. First image is end of the Standard run, second is the start of the Career one. I think you can see the problem here.

    01.png
    02.png

    2a) Getting Involved

    Sadly, my recording of this did not take, so I'm going to have to rerun this and thus have no pictures. However, this scenario has the same problem. The timings on this scenario are equally impossible. Even the initial 3 minute timing at the very start is impossible. I sped into that siding over 20 MPH (unrealistic) and came to a stop at the train, quickly changed cabs, let sand fly, and would up nearly a minute late. After that, the next timing (going the speed limit, FYI) dropped me into the negatives. I quit the scenario at this point. I think I have the Career video to provide this for DTG's purposes. I ran and completed the standard version way later than the expected finish time.

    Note I did not run the "bad weather" versions of this or the third scenario, so "Powering Up" was not attempted.

    EDIT: Due to footage not being recorded for some reason, I decided to record "Powering Up" as my eventual video footage after all. If replaying it, might as well get another checkmark!

    3a) Together As One

    Looked at the Career timings. Immediately realized they were flawed. Went to Standard Mode to find that the timetable WAS BEING APPLIED FOR SUCCESS OR FAILURE. Seriously? I succeeded by speeding at 30 MPH most of the way. The scenario cannot be completed legit. This scenario needs wholesale replacement. Got the video where I repeatedly say I don't care as I go. The hilarious bit is, after rescuing the train, it detached halfway along (likely would have had the dreaded "you got railroaded" bug I've seen twice if I went to pick it back up) and stayed on the mountain anyway. Was still good enough for the driver to say he owes me a beer.

    As with the above case, "A Joint Effort" was not attempted.

    4) Cold Play

    So I went into this scenario with a sense of dread as I noticed the timetable was showing again in Standard Mode. However, I noticed a quirk this time. The track from Truckee to Colfax was shown as 30 MPH. On the first three scenarios, I was traveling on a track designed to run at 25 MPH. It was a classic "there's your problem" scenario. The timings in the first three scenarios are impossible because they were timed for 30 MPH track, and the timings in the last scenario were apparently applied for a 25 MPH track. Don't believe me? Look at this:

    03.png

    04.png

    First image: goat is to arrive at 11:54 a.m. Actual arrival time, even accounting for missing setting the switch and having to seek permission to reverse back onto the track: 11:22 a.m.

    Analysis

    This is a technical problem with the scenarios. As I said, I found a couple of buggy signals, and I'm sure they can't be fixed without possibly wrecking something, but come on DTG. These scenarios need to be replaced. I can give you timings for the first one from my Standard run to aid with this, and I'll have to retape the second; the third, meanwhile, will require me to rerun it at 25 MPH to get proper timings. I can also give when I arrived at each point on the last scenario.

    My suspicion is both tracks are supposed to be 30 MPH. Alternatively, Colfax-Truckee might be 30 MPH and Truckee-Colfax might be 25 MPH. Meaning that the scenarios took the wrong direction into account IN EVERY CASE. I would argue that you can change the speed limit to 30 MPH on the route, but again, this could wreck something and this would need testing. I maintain that scenario modifications SHOULD NOT NEED TWO WEEKS TO TEST and should be easy to replace. SO REPLACE THEM. These scenarios keep this DLC from being a 10/10 in my books. Such an easy fix. I'm even prepared to modify my review.

    Recommendation

    My easy fix for the first three scenarios is to make the Colfax-Truckee track a 30 MPH track to match that of the final scenario. Sadly, I don't think this will get done as it would need testing, and this route would still take two hours to drive for each test. So I'm not holding out hope for those. That is still, however, one fix. The other is to rewrite the timings for every single scenario, or convert them to "start with 1,000 and be penalized" format. This would also fix the final scenario being done 35 minutes early.

    Conclusion

    Unfortunately, I can't see DTG giving a rip about this technical report because I already reported Sherman Hill scenario issues - even replacing all of the cars in Introduction to Sherman Hill with a successful run - and it hasn't been fixed for a year since. So I don't predict this will get fixed, either. That's sad, because these are very clearly scenario issues. They should be run as the standard 'start with 1,000 points and lose points for speeding, etc." format. These can easily replace what's in the pack. Because DTG thinks that changing out a scenario will break something in the Workshop (HOW?), it'll never be fixed. Can't wait until I get a maximum score of 600 on PDL for one scenario.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2021
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  2. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    If you think how long ago Donner Pass was made the chances of DTG Changing Career Scenarios is Nil.
    I have that route and the Manual is dated 2011 - 10 YEARS ago
     
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  3. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    These have been broken since the railworks days. The issues have been reported many times and they have never been fixed, just like the many other bugged and impossible scenarios in the game.

    What really annoys me, is that we constantly hear from DTG how they want to make the game a better experience for players especially new ones, well start by sorting out issues like this!

    Sadly, we are starting to see the same problems occurring in TSW2, with various scenarios and timetable runs still broken over a year after release.
     
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  4. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    DTG is starting to give itself a reputation of "Make it, ship it, don't offer support for it". That seems to be the vibe I'm picking up. Which is a shame given they expect people to spend thousands of dollars if they want the little pieces that make up the full game, not even counting the third-party content.
     
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  5. DIFFLOCK

    DIFFLOCK Active Member

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    I was sure I'd completed at least some of those career scenarios, but I no longer see any ticks/stars. I've had this happen before and I think it's when I've verified the game files... Oh well, I'll have to revisit them! I cannot recall if I did the 3 hour plus scenario in career or standard - I may have been that person who willingly subjected himself to the torture :D
     
  6. DIFFLOCK

    DIFFLOCK Active Member

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    Well, I certainly didn't complete the Getting Involved scenario until today - I just unlocked the achievement :o ... with minus 20421 points in career!! In addition to the dodgy timetable, the consist itself cannot maintain track speed (25 mph) on grades in excess of 1.9% anyway! Phew. I feel like I've taken one for the team too :mad:
     
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  7. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    If I remember correctly the only career scenario that can be completed with any chance of getting a positive score is the downhill run with the fuel tanks.

    I am not sure how correct this is, but on one of the previous discussions about these problems (might have been on the steam forums), somebody suggested the scenarios worked correctly when the route was first released, but then an update or something similar messed with the loco engine/power output seting, which meant that line speed was no longer achievable and thus you get later and later, accumulating a huge negative score because of the late penalties.

    I believe at one point there somebody made workshop versions with a more sensible timetable, whether these are still available I couldn't tell you, but it might be worth a search if you have a 3 or 4 hours to spare for a second run!
     
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  8. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Excuse me, what do you mean by starting? Donner Pass was 10 years ago, and DTG have had that reputation for basically that long. Possibly longer seeing as people weren't exactly thrilled with Rail Sim when that came out, it took several years for it to really catch on.
     
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  9. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Wrong word, let's go with "continuing".
    I'll take a look and get back to this post. At the very least, they are so long they should be 1,000 point start format with operational errors reducing points, and no points for each checkpoint.

    Also, you are correct. "Cold Play" is the only beatable timetable, but as I detail in the OP, it's still a senseless timetable. You can finish half an hour early. That ain't right, either. I think uphill was once 30 MPH and downhill was once 25 MPH. That's my theory.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
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  10. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Dovetail barely fixes new releases, what makes you think they will care about an old RSC route from way back in the day?
     
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  11. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    They won't. I'm sure of it. Doesn't mean I can't keep fighting for them to at least do something about it and others. Sherman Hill got a similar report, and I will continue to report others and record scenario video as a way to make other players aware of problems.

    Of course, if DTG fixes those problems, I would be saying good things about that instead.
     
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  12. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    More investigation of the problems with Donner Pass: the achievements (I know, who cares) all require you to play the Career versions of the scenarios. So it's bad enough we have to torture ourselves with impossible goals: we have to do it for every single scenario and complete all six (remember, two are alternate versions with different weather) to complete the bulk of them. We then have to apparently do that ten more times with either set of the scenarios in order to complete the 3,144 miles goal, of which I don't even have 314.4 miles yet despite having done all of the basic included scenarios. Did they really think we'd be running to do random Roseville and Sparks quickdrives en masse? Or can we actually just do Workshop scenarios or the scenarios with other trains that take place on the route to do the mission?

    I know I have to look for the other two trains for the goal of driving all five trains, but a shame that scenarios weren't just created for all five.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
  13. DIFFLOCK

    DIFFLOCK Active Member

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    Another one for the team with minus 21181 points on the powering up scenario. Once again the consist is under-powered and cannot maintain 25 mph on the steep grades.
     
  14. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    You'll save yourself a lot of trouble if you consider it a sim instead of a game and just turn career scoring off. It's just making you stare at the hud all the time. Hauling freight in the US is about safety not racing. And 1] Donner Pass does not take 215 minutes. Roughly 170 minutes. It's just the wrong number they put in the duration field which has no effect on gameplay anyway. Donner Pass is a nice route, looks good for its age. Be sure to check out the workshop for the reworked Donner Pass Redux route from ericmopar. :)
     
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  15. sphexi

    sphexi Active Member

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    This...
    Every time I get a new route and they have timetable/schedule based North American freight scenarios I shake my head and ask why.
     
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  16. sphexi

    sphexi Active Member

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    And a second recommendation for Donner Pass Redux. But if I remember right the catch is you have to own Cajon Pass too (which can be harder to come by for newer non-USA TS20xx players.
     
  17. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    The game has to have a schedule to work to
    They give us Career Scenarios so some people can say " I got a gold star" or "I go so many points"
    DTG are encouraging us to play the game like idiots and race along.
     
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  18. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but you're free to turn the scoring off and enjoy. And in recent times they changed to giving you 1000 points at start and not use freight scenario timings. Like all the scenario packs and workshop scenarios from the great High Iron Simulations / Gary Dolzall. This is how it should be done!
     
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  19. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Assets needed: Donner Pass Southern Pacific and Cajon Pass or the U.S. Loco and Asset Pack, European Loco and Asset Pack.

    The US assets (Kuju\RailsimulatorUS) are the same assets that came with Cajon Pass. No need to have the route itself :)
     
  20. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    If the Career Schedule has very tight timings just turning off the Scoring does not relax the times allowed.
     
  21. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    FYI, Just Trains has a bundle with the RSDL 08 and Cajon Pass. A very curious bundle. Of course, I own Cajon already from a 2012 key, so I asked about getting the RSDL 08 individually instead of paying $30 for a package. No can do. I downloaded the Major.Wales pack instead, which coincidentally got me other copies of reskins that would otherwise be available as separate Marketplace items or, again, in the full RSDL package. Piecemeal livery acquisition is not cool, put them all in one package.

    Also, the scenario does take over three hours (180 minutes). See my first screenshot. I have arrived in that shot at Truckee. Three hours and 11 minutes after setting off.

    Regarding career scenarios in North America, these could all be converted to start with 1,000 points and remove the time markers, simply penalizing for speeding and errors. I could edit and post on the Workshop in minutes if I wanted to, and I very well might at some point. So if I can do it in minutes, why can't DTG go and fix the scenarios and update the package officially? It's just silly. I'm looking up ways to edit Scenario.bin now, but this may not be a perfectly doable thing to do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
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  22. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Allocating time for somebody to fix faults - especially old faults - has no profit.
     
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  23. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree. It may not have any immediate profit, which seems to be what the management at DTG is mostly interested in, however it would promote customer loyalty and higher customer satisfaction which promotes a greater willingness to purchase more products from the same company at a later date.
     
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  24. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    This is what I'm pointing out, Peter. Let's say you were to buy a bicycle. It is revealed after you buy the bicycle that there is a problem with the pedals and that the wheels don't turn as they are supposed to. It doesn't stop you from enjoying the bicycle and the average customer might not notice, but you being an expert on bicycles knows there is a problem that affects the quality of said bicycle. You write the manufacturer saying it needs to be fixed. The manufacturer simply laughs at you and says we got your money and we no longer sell that bicycle, sucks to be you.

    Are you likely to buy their bicycles in the future? No, you tell people to avoid them and not buy their bicycles.

    DTG is feeling safe to not fix content that doesn't work as intended because the average consumer doesn't care whether the content works. Heck, the number of people who actually have achievements on older DLC is very limited, and even on the year-old WCMLS the number stands at maybe 0.01% in some cases. So 99.9% of people don't care whether it's possible to get that achievement. This is why DTG doesn't fix content. If more people demanded properly working content, I guarantee you they would fix it to work on keeping customers, but they feel they don't need to.

    This is our fault as consumers. We need to demand better and expect accountability for older content.
     
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  25. JaneyBananey

    JaneyBananey Member

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    Without wanting to quote your entire message, I one hundred percent agree with this. Yes, I know the "classics" line is discounted, but that does not equal to it being sold as abandonware, effectively. Nor should that be the case.

    DTG really do know how to pull out all the stops when it comes to stuff like this.
     
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  26. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Yes but you don't have to care. That's the difference to standard scenarios with timings. If you arrive in standard at a waypoint to too late, you get a X and the task is failed. In Career mode though, you get a checkmark even if you are too late as it just reduces points which is irrelevant when scoring is turned off.
     
  27. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    It's worth noting that the third Donner Pass scenario does this. I even lost some cars off my train that detached themselves but had to speed along at 30 MPH to make my timings and couldn't go back for the missing vehicles. Line speed? 25 MPH. At least in Standard, you can speed. So if you clear that scenario (as I have), and get the checkmark, you effectively cheated.
     
  28. jeff.engle

    jeff.engle Active Member

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    It seems in TSW2 there is more specific effort to fix older (preserved) routes. I see the same in X-plane and MSFS. It is not fair or smart in my mind for DTG to abandon TS especially with TS being a Steam best seller and such a great active community (buying lots of add-ons). Those new users will likely get disenchanted with poor support for “older” routes. It’s hard for a new customer like me to understand all this.
     
  29. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    They are trying to just make the same routes using better graphics in a new game instead of putting better graphics on the old game. I think they know they have to give free updates to existing owners, so hence the new game method instead. Seriously, people with the existing route in TS ought to get a discount in TSW2 if they jump over.

    That said, they took a TSW2 train and exported it into TS, noting they had to change how it works in TS, including the graphical dip. So they are going both ways too where it's convenient. The shiny 313 in TSW2 won't jump over, though, since we already have an AP one on Steam. Maybe the 387 will jump over, though AP did recently put out their own based on the Chatham Medway 375.
     
  30. dkreveller#9240

    dkreveller#9240 New Member

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    Freight routes broadly speaking can be hit or miss with realistic schedule to adhere to. Faulty signals they probably could fix but apart from the mentioned age of the DLC, it's not likely any overhaul of this would happen as it won't make them any money to do so.
     
  31. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Once again, that's a short term consideration. I look at the long game.
     
  32. dkreveller#9240

    dkreveller#9240 New Member

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    i agree with what you mean, but whether you classify it as short or long term consideration, the roadmap will be the only way of knowing if it does get onto their agenda.
     
  33. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    There is no roadmap for TS. This is due to a lot of it being third-party and they cannot control it.
     
  34. dkreveller#9240

    dkreveller#9240 New Member

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    surprising that is the case, even with most being third party, making an collaborative roadmap for TS would ease an lot of questions people have
     
  35. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is a developer announces something new and another party undercuts them with another version.
    Why do you think DTG don't announce new products until they are due for release?
     
  36. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Hello there,
    I noticed that restarting a scenario will mess up consist weight, thus if you care, just restart the game between scenarios.

    Passenger track speed is 30, freight 25 between Colfax and Truckee, with some slower switches.

    I did run these aplenty in 2016 (given the Coast to Coast achievement) and I remember that all trains can climb at 25. The heavier consist requires about Notch 6-7, the easier 2-3. Maybe a minor drop on the 2.7%. Regardless of speeding, neither train has enough power to meet the timetable except #4 and Bonus (F7 winter night).

    As for restarting, or playing as 2nd scenario, I remember running Elphaba's SD45 scenario from Roseville to Colfax, I stalled. I have many further examples.

    There may be a few additional things to this. I also remember a GG1 scenario that was like 6 minutes late, so I ran with 100% power all the way from Trenton to Philly, reaches about 130, only to get blocked by an AI. Also had to do +40kph in a München-Augsburg scenario, thought I'll topple like that poor ACS-64 a few years back. The other aspect is the double-clock, you can get blocked or mistimed because the ETA clock is faster than the world and AI clock.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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  37. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know this, but my runs were generally for the original boot, without restart. I can try a run with a fresh boot to show what happens.

    The passenger train in Scenario 1 is run at 25 MPH. I have video of even that train having difficulty climbing. Comparatively, I decided to try a freight run on another route here I ran at 15 MPH in a 25 and the timing was still a accurate. They got the Donner timings wrong. Completely wrong. This is proven by taking a freight train at 30 MPH in the other direction and being half an hour early. They screwed it up completely. End of discussion.

    At 100% throttle on a 2% or so gradient, I lose speed. This happens on Sherman Hill in The Midnight Magnet as well on a 1.5%. I cannot exceed 40 if I'm under that on the hill, and drop to it from above. That said, the timing at Dale and Hermosa is still correct; it's the run to Laramie that is not properly timed there.

    I have not played Donner outside of the original scenarios or the Workshop set I ran (the Workshop set was properly timed even with restarts).
     
  38. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Ok but that won't get us anywhere as scenarios are almost never being fixed. Why not turn off career scoring and just enjoy the driving. Or clone the scenario and adjust or remove timings. Whereas not in this, but in scenarios in which you let another train overtake you while you are stopping in a siding mid-scenario, timings are needed sometimes for the dispatcher to work.

    There is this scenario in Norfolk Southern Coal District where the timings are impossible. Turned out to be due to a core physics update. Saw an old video on YT scoring 1000 without problems. And many older scenarios suffer from this. Maybe it was possible before that update.

    I have much more enjoyment when driving a route I know just with F5 hud. No blinking display yelling at me SPEEDING just because I'm 1mph over the limit. And that's what this game is about for me.

    And to be honest most of the scenarios shipped with DLC are crap, hastily put together. Wasn't always like this. On old Ruhr-Sieg there's many great scenarios like Historic Freight Train, and there is AI action all along the line from start to finish. You see shunters in sidings working as you pass by. Definitely they took their time before release.

    I hereby recommend my main source of driving fun, the workshops from Not.Silent, Coasty and High Iron Simulations. Great to see the latter is still making free workshop quality stuff although he's making money with the (brilliant) scenario pack DLCs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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  39. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Not.Silent and High Iron are two I know of, and I once listed all of High Iron's scenarios in a file to figure out requirements to purchase. Sadly, many use BNSF content. I also jotted down agsieg's collection and many others with over 100 in them. greendragon32 also has a large collection if you're interested, some being for the payware Suburban Glasgow.

    You may be right that the scenario might have been possible. Do you have a link to this video in NS Coal District? I can do a quick run of the scenario myself and possibly provide a comparison showing how scenarios are getting broken by core updates, and that updating old DLC is absolutely necessary in this circumstance because they broke it. Otherwise, anyone with the DLC ought to get it for free on request (or another comparable DLC for free) it's not going to be fixed. It's not the customer's fault that the DLC got broken. I'd like to do a comparison of my own run before making such comments, though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
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  40. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Here you go. This is not achievable anymore. Which does not mean the physics update wasn't good. Seems the locos were overpowered before. It's just that an update to the scenarios would have been needed. But DTG will surely not do anything concerning this. They gave us the editor ;-)

     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  41. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Btw I will drive this exact consist in Run8 Train Simulator running up a similar grade and see how it should behave. The physics there are approved by real railroaders. UnSerzing the scenario.bin I can figure out the exact mass of the consist.

    Edit: Just checked. The TS physics seem to be right after that update. This train (13540 tons) has 1.4 Horsepower per ton. It won't go faster than 15 mph on a 1.0% grade. Seems correct. So in the video the train is way too fast.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
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  42. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    So the scenario relies on the train to be way too fast. This suggests the Sherman SD70 in The Midnight Magnet is likely registered as having timings that are currently too fast. Heck, I know for a fact you have to be traveling 45 MPH in that particular consist in the 40 area, so there is that.

    I'll run it sometime from Sunday when I get home, more likely during next week sometime. I'd love to compare my run to this.
     
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  43. sphexi

    sphexi Active Member

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    How did the RUN8 drive go? I'm often curious about RUN8 and will probably get it at some point, but it seems like limited route types and I really have no interest in the "dispatch" aspect.
    And the few times I have watched a "comparison" between someone touting RUN8 vs. TS20xx, they pick the oldest TS20xx route/locos possible and complain that the physics aren't up to scratch. Having said that, it sounds like RUN8 makes the physics consistent through all routes/locos.
     
  44. torfmeister

    torfmeister Well-Known Member

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    Well yes it has limited content but enough to drive for many hours, from Bakersfield to Seligman, Barstow to San Bernardino, West Colton, LA - San Diego all linked together And some Florida routes I think altogether about 800 miles. It is maintained by a small group of people (who made the original Cajon/Tehachapi/Donner Pass for MSTS) and is very stable and reliable. You can do everything in realtime, place new trains, easy-to-use consist editor, and if you want to play alone there's not much dispatching. About the same as in Freeroam. The graphics are of lower quality, but the overall lighting is very good, especially in the morning/evening and the cab light looks very real, and the headlights don't illuminate the tracks like crazy in daylight. The point is it just feels so real. Rolling stock is GP40-2, SD40-2, SD40T-2, SD45, ES44DC/AC, SD70ACe and Amtrak P42DC in different variants and liveries. The Knorr CCB II brake system is well simulated. You click the brake key once and it rests in the Minimal Reduction position, then if you keep pressing it it slowly reduces EQ/brake pipe pressure. No accidental overshooting to Emergency.

    As the Coal District Route is not available I tested this train on Cajon Pass. Like I wrote above it is underpowered. Just out of San Bernardino I struggled reaching 15mph. I put two more locos at the front and then I had 2 HorsePower per ton which is ok. But then I broke the couplers a few times. But in Run8 you have the possibility to use DPU fencing. That means you can control the Distributed Power Units (the two locos on the back) independently and run them a notch higher than the pulling locos as there is too much stress on the couplers otherwise. You can learn a lot there and it just lets you do what you want. And if you don't have all rolling stock there is placeholders.

    So, the TS physics are good. NS The Monumental as we play it now is correct. And I like all of the sims I have. TS for its huge content, great routes, steam simulation. Run8 for the real life experience, you can configure industries so that you put some empty hoppers there after a while they are loaded/unloaded, get a new tag and you have to bring them somewhere else again. TheNorthernAlex has some nice videos and it feels just like real working shifts. I like Zusi3 for correct emulation of german railroading (PZB, LZB, CIR-ELKE, ETCS...). But somehow I can't be bothered to play TSW.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
  45. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Those cars are prone to disconnect anyway. Pretty much every hopper (and more) in the game tends to separate, a notable exception being CMP. Going to hold back my usual essay of two pages, only noting it to say that there are aplenty :) and it's not really related to consist size either. I've lost my baby trains on Rascal & Cottonwood and Fort Kent to Eagle Lake as well, if exceeding 25mph ever.
     
  46. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I've only really had problems with the boxcars. It feels like they are copy and pasted from route to route but never worked properly in the first place. It would be nice if DTG would fix them, but I don't feel that's going to happen. In any case, I've had the experience of repetitive boxcar separation on the one Sherman Hill scenario and separation of boxcars (required for a delivery, BTW) on Cajon.Pass; I am worried about taking a batch along Marias Pass or any other route that has them now.
     
  47. sphexi

    sphexi Active Member

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    I still find the huge list of routes keeps my interest in TS, but I think I will have to pickup RUN8 sooner rather than later. Of course, the other train "sim" I want to pickup is Derail Valley :)

    Re: TSW2...I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just doesn't draw me in. I picked it up during the free week via Epic and have played it several times, but it just doesn't stick...
     
  48. sphexi

    sphexi Active Member

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    Argh...the Sherman Hill route is one that came with TS2013 when I started playing for a while and that scenario frustrated me so much at the beginning. You're not really doing much other than driving a train up long hill...and bingo some more cars have been left behind. :mad::mad::mad:

    ...but I'm feeling better now...
     
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  49. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Trust me, it was the first non-tutorial scenario I even played. I literally went to the Discord server and asked if I was doing something wrong. Nope, I was told, it's been doing that for seven years. This led me to start making a point of literally pointing out every mistake that DTG needs to fix, and stressing that ignoring these mistakes is a case of bad customer service.

    Let me look for instance at Euro Truck Sim 2. They are talking about redoing the UK map. This is the ORIGINAL map. It's not even a DLC, it's the base game, as is Germany - which already got a facelift - and connecting areas in the Netherlands, France and others). So they will gain nothing in the short term by redoing the UK. However, they are still working on new DLC going to Moscow, which isn't even in Europe. People will revisit and drive around the new map of the UK. There will be videos and livestreams driving in the new UK. And people will be interested in the new UK and want to drive the new UK and buy the game. Win! They also do sales up to 70% off - and that's a permanent 70% for every sale once it occurs, not a fluctuating deal from 75 to 55 to 70 to 60 and so on. So from that vein, DTG's customer service at the point of sale is sloppy, and product support for legacy content is sloppy.

    DTG needs to revisit and fix the older content, and now that I'm back home, I plan to run the Coal District scenario referenced above to see if I can pull it off...or if it's indeed impossible. Video comparison will be interesting. If the side by side proves a physics change broke the scenario, it's proof the scenario needs to be updated - as would every other scenario I've pointed out that may have once been timed correctly, but now has impossible timings. Donner Pass is among them. Stop playing the short game. Play the long game and keep people potentially interested in a route and scenarios that work as they should. Otherwise, they should just be given away for free. Because there is free content out there that works better.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
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  50. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    People say DTG should fix older content but there is no profit in that.
    There is more chance of the community fixing the older problems
    Donner Pass was released in December 2012 which is a long time ago in gaming.
     

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