1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Doppelstockwagen On Hamburg-lübeck

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by seblay1608, Apr 11, 2021.

  1. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,054
    Likes Received:
    4,610
    I wouldn't be surprised if people who leave the train fall onto the tracks
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2016
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    1,114
    It looks to me someone did not assess correctly the implications of not including the high door Dostos (train looks "sunk" in the platform, passengers and players cant get out correctly, it seems the player and passengers are close to hitting their heads when entering). Lets leave aside that it is not the correct model for a moment.

    They had two choices:
    1. Add the high door Dostos.
    2. If not possible to do 1 (probably because they can't allocate "train designer" time) then they should have told the "route design" guys to change the platform heights in all the route so you do not have all the problems we talked about before.

    They did not do that or pay enough attention to it while the route was being built, and here we are now with all those problems.

    Of course the best solution would be to just delay the release until they can make the high door Dostos but it might not be possible because they have deadlines. They could just be upfront with it and tell us: "This is what happened. We did not expect that using low door coaches would cause so many issues. We have to make the release now, but next time we make a route that includes high door dostos we will make them and replace them here". You know, the route still looks good and both main stations (Hamburg, Lubek) look good. The route still has a selling point.

    What did they do instead? Give us half truths and a release with obvious bugs that everyone will notice. Good luck with that!

    100%
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
    • Like Like x 9
  3. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    3,990
    I am getting pretty sure they will sooner or later muster some fix for AI and players to leave these Dostos to make this point disappear. They will lower the platform, get them closer to the track or create an invisible hitbox for this problem to artificially disappear. It has become a big argument for high-entries and it needs to go.

    Dovetail, please...
    Treat the cause, not the symptom.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,559
    Likes Received:
    2,764
    You know, all this "angst" ( to use a German expression), reminds me of the threads that preceded the release of SEHS. Those who knew a lot about UK railways had a myriad of complaints, some of which were subsequently fixed. I, who did not know much about the route, would not have been aware of these issues if they hadn't been pointed out, except for the sound or lack of it. I went on to purchase the route and it has become one of my favorites. Those who know a lot about German railways are finding issues with this route, that I would, again, not notice if they had not been brought to my attention. So, I will likely buy it and enjoy the gameplay it offers. So to misuse the old adage: " a lot of knowledge is a dangerous thing ". Of course, those of us who know something about American railroads have picked those routes apart too. But the only one that has generated a lot of " angst " is LIRR, which is being fixed as we speak. I never thought I would ever suggest that Americans were more patient than Europeans, but that seems to be the case. My advice: Wait and see. Enjoy what looks to be a very well modeled route and look forward to some fixes down the road.
    Have a great day! ;)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    3,990
    Is the gameplay that strong though? Passenger trains up and down the line (or a part of it) and freight up and down the line (with changing trains in Lübeck before going back). The gameplay sincerely sounds lacking to me as well. They've even thrown 112 on freight, which is completely wrong.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2020
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    254
    Delivering unfinished products, be it physical or digital, shouldn't be a thing. But with the ever-increasing online environment, we get approached by more and more "early access" fails that shouldn't really exist in my opinion. It's the equivalent of a start-up project only with games.

    Would you buy a TV if it comes with a remote that has buttons placed in random order? Perhaps you will if it's your first. But then you go to your friends and you discover optimization and a flow behind their remote and you understand that you got hooked by the ones with the wrong approach to the business.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    2,587
    That is exactly what I wanted to hint at but I feel I have twisted myself there :D
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    2,587
    I mean I get what you are aiming at, and SEHS has become one of my absolute favorites as well, but I am not happy with two points here. Firstly, While most likely perfectly fine or at least alright for players unfamiliar with a certain route, shouldn't the players from that country or region be the "first" so to say, to be pleased with it? Surely you would not develop a route with the intent to sell most instances to people not from that region. Sure, bit of conjecture on my part, but seems logical that british players would be the biggest base of possible customers for SEHS.

    And secondly, sure, fixes along the line is not only great and mandatory, but when did it become alright to release content in awareness that there are greater issues already at launch? It has become a habbit for sure, especially with Train Sim World, but the moment we fully accept that we buy first and wait for fixes to come within the upcoming months, we basically have lost. Will we end up with buggy routes and broken timetables every time (like Arosa), because the suits have data that people still buy it regardless of the state? They could cut a week, another week and then another week from development cycles, because, in a year or so, Adam's 4-5 man team will do a pass on it.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  9. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Well, you did notice that the sound on SEH was plain wrong, because it's really noticable. I did too (even though I'm no British Railways expert), and wouldn't have bought the route if they didn't fix it. I too really enjoyed SEH when it came out, so I can see your point.

    However on SEH they fixed the noticable issue (sound), and here they won't. The difference isn't only visual like for example scenery, it affects other things, mainly the NPCs glitching out and the player falling down, and that is noticeable, even to the untrained eye.

    I think your comparison between wrong dostos on HHL and missing scenery on SEH is wrong, and the wrong dostos should be compared to the lacking sound on SEH initially in both severity and noticeability.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,559
    Likes Received:
    2,764
    Well, the absence of sound on the SEHS, especially the Class 395, was kind of fixed in short order, mostly because of the uproar here on the forums. Isn't it possible that these wrong cars on the Hamburg- Lubeck route will be replaced for the same reason?
     
  11. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Eh, doubt it. The sounds were a honest mistake, and not what they planned for. They already had recordings lying around, they 'merely' needed to fix the mixing.

    Making new dostos is a whole other thing, and I do not expect them to be able to create correct ones before release sadly.
     
  12. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    513
    I fear the hopes regarding SEHS may be a bit too high for this one.

    Despite its issues, SEHS offers quite a lot from a gameplay perspective which makes it unique and - in my opinion - one of the best if not the best route in game:

    - a fantastic timetable mode with lots of services, nearly every single one slightly different
    - high speed services (395)
    - lower speed services (375)
    - even freight with shunting (!!)
    - from 5 minutes to 1 hour

    And with the 395 at least one new model. Optional another one for 15 € if you decided to buy the 465 - which I have and didn't regret.

    The issues there mainly were scenery - wise. If you don't know the area in real life this gets better to look over. The main area which I find not very well built is the riverside around Strood and Rochester - one or two more hours of work would have made a huge difference here.

    I don't see that happening now on HBL because I fail to see what actually new features this brings to the game, esp. if you own RSN and RT.
    It's another mid speed electric mainline with some freight and Dostos and not very diversified scenery.
    You can have the same experience on nearly every other german route, maybe someday even on RT. Empty main stations and sidings can be witnessed there as well. If you drive the cab car or turn the sound off you can even drive the Dostos at a speed of 160 anywhere else.
    My point is I can't see a single new thing added with this DLC - everything featured is already in game.

    One of the main questions before a purchase a customer asks is probably what new experience is offered when I buy this DLC? And the answer of HBL does not look good in this case.

    SEHS, LGV and even Arosa had answers to that question despite their individual issues. That made them somewhere attractive and enjoyable. HBL has a much harder task here.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    1,630
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    1,635
    I personally don't find it that much of a problem, after all, not every route can be completely unique. I mean to me every british route is the same, regardless of rolling stock, as I don't care, but look at british train enthusiasts being excited for every release Same here, even if it's similar to all the other german routes at first, those who know german railways and love the area will know why it's unique.

    But of course, to make it more unique, the high door Dostos would've been the perfect way... But to me the problem is not with how unique the route is, as it actually looks kinda nice, I liked what I saw on the streams. But having the wrong passenger cars when everyone was looking forward really much for new Dostos, is pretty sad.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Nei4024

    Nei4024 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2021
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    64
    I have an idea that maybe has already been raised, or not. But it would be nice if he got to Dovetail.

    Due to the complaints that this route has, most of the reused rolling stock minus the changes of the 112, which is practically a 143. My idea is that they leave this route to launch with Rush hour along with the other routes. And at the time that time, they include the high-entry Dostos and a new locomotive, a German diesel, a br 218, for example. In this way the route would be perfect and not with the excuse of time and many more people would buy it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    975
    Likes Received:
    2,257
    Wow, good thing many here don’t utilize TSClassic since not ever route comes with new rolling stock or locomotives. In fact several use the stock “KUJU” European or American stock, but yet that simulation has been around for years and has a strong user base and is continually being supported by not only DTG, but other 3rd party companies.

    This toxicity over routes that have not even been released is starting to get way beyond tiresome, this used be a pretty decent community where issues could be discussed, but now most threads degenerate into DTG is being lazy and they are nothing but a money grabbing company that doesn’t care about what the “customers” want. I can read those type comments in about any game / simulation forums anywhere on the internet.

    I leave these discussions for those that enjoy such conflict and will evaluate the product once it is released

    cheers
     
    • Like Like x 8
  17. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    2,587
    From a business point of view that is not going to happen, all the dates have most likely been locked in at this point to guarantee a timed release on the consoles, which have a lengthy certification process. And they have allocated a timeframe and ressources (money/workpower) when planning this project, so if they were to delay this project now and even add further content to it, the chances of recouping the investment with the sales get slimmer each week.

    Well I am happy I never played the old TS classic, but regardless of which rolling stock was copied in which condition and when and for which route loses its meaning when you can compare the releases to each other. Which you can since they cost the same (on TSW2 at least). And it has been usual that one of two rolling stocks has been reused eve nfor TSW and it is mostly fine. The thing here is not only that you get copied freight wagons, passenger wagons and trains, you also get the copied/semi-new locos with old bugs and errors, and a 112 that has a front inaccurate to the real thing. It is the lack of effort that has been put into the rolling stock for this release that tilts me.
    Yet I am still expected to pay the usual price at release. Which comapred to other releases for TSW2 just does not feel right.

    I see nothing wrong with letting DTG know we are on their case and won't easily suck up anything they put out. They will still be happy since the route will sell like hot cakes, the 20 people on here who pull through and resist buying it immediately don't matter in the long run. We surely have been calculated as sales buyers in the planning phase of this addon already.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2019
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    486
    So I think that the wrong Dostos are an issue. But even though I’m from germany, I know a lot of it’s trains and look at the small details, I wouldn’t have noticed it very soon that these are the wrong Dostos. I would have noticed the problems with the AI and myself getting out, the height would have been a bit confusing and I would have definitely been sad about the fact we get no new Dostos here. But that’s it. The fact I’m more upset about is the lack of more freightcars. We have a lot of freight cars that are used on only one route, have a lot of chances to upgrade them or reuse them- in different liverys!
    E.g. the Containerwaggons: There are new Containers from ONE and Adam already told us they will bring them onto these waggons for more variety- but there are other solutions for more variety:
    Use 20 feet containers from Hamburg Süd and Hapag Lloyd, repaint the standard waggons for more dust, rust and so on!
    That would help so much!
    Well, because that is not done I’m gonna give it a try in the livery designer, but unfortunately the waggons I repainted so far have never appeared anywhere...

    Well, I will still buy the route, because the stations look lovely, we get the first electric mainline loco from germany you can use in the livery editor and it was one of my favourite routes in Ts...
    And nevertheless the fact with the PIS on plattforms, the stations getting wet (I really hope they added thsi more or less old feature in HBL) and the variety of passenger services are very cool.
    But I would buy it with much more confidence if it would have some new freight waggons-even if they would have been repainted or those used we haven’t seen very often...
    Cheers!
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
  19. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2020
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    999
    Why the low entry dostos on HBK are so big problem? There are many timetables, that contains incorrect trains, such as DB BR 422 as S-Bahn Köln and DB BR 425 on RE/RB services on HMA. And dostos on RE1 service on SKA are also operated with high entry dostos.
     
  20. Higgybaby90

    Higgybaby90 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    196
    Because this time the services are not a "special gift" you get additional to the services with the delivered DLC, using layers. This time you pay exactly for this inacurate stock.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
    • Like Like x 5
  21. grob-e

    grob-e Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    511
    Well, it somehow feels like...

    buying a model-railway starter-kit H0-gauge, but the coaches delivered with are N-gauge. On SKA it's more like buying a starter-kit completely new, and to have more traffic than the delivered locos would give, you're buying some second-hand additional rolling stock...

    Nothing against the BR 112, there is no reason why it shouldn't be modelled in the game just because it looks similar to the 143. and it is still a very common loco.
     
  22. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    3,990
    In all the cases you've mentioned the services are layers from other DLCs, the base DLC itself provides correct rolling stock, here the base DLC rolling stock is wrong, not a neat value improvement for older DLCs, but a wrong content for a full price. That's what makes it flat out bad. If they gave us 648s, a black Taurus and some new freight car with the wrong dostos being a substitution from an earlier route, it would be fine... but they're CHARGING US FOR THIS. (of course... only if we buy it, I know, I am talking about value for money)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  23. Mephrite

    Mephrite Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    23
    Honestly - did "WORK IN PROGRESS" showed worse graphic/elements anytime in history than in final release?
    Every single time it looked the same - or worse. Don't be naive people, what we see is what you get. Unless there will be graphics nerf, because of performence.
     
  24. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    2,320
    upload_2021-5-9_22-53-23.png
    I appreciate this isn't really concerned about the stock but didn't warrent a thread in itself IMO - is the image in this promo so low res for everyone else?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  25. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    3,990
    Foreshadowing the DLC quality :D
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Having the same issue :).
     

Share This Page