Dresden - Db Br 155

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by LucasLCC, Sep 1, 2021.

  1. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    It was mentioned last night that the BR 155 would not be able to substitute on the Dresden route as a result of last gen consoles not being able to handle it.

    I'm saying this as someone who used to play exclusively on a base Xbox One, however now use a desktop, why are you penalising everyone in response to this? The BR 155 is perfectly at home on the Dresden route. In fact, this is probably the most suitable route for them to appear, and it's a real shame that they've been missed off.
     
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  2. Task

    Task Well-Known Member

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    It's not only the BR 155 but the BR 182 (MRCE & DB) and the BR 185.2 (both) are also missing from freight services on Dresden - Riesa.
     
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  3. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Active Member

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    I'm yet to watch the stream, but if this is so, this is a sad shame. I've been worried about stuff like this happening, next gen and pc users shouldn't have to suffer because of last gen limitations. Is it difficult to just leave the 155 out of last gen versions?
     
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  4. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    Lack of substitution is a huge disappointment to me. It's like they are trying to make freight as plain as possible on every route.
     
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  5. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame to hear this limitation affects us all while it doesn't need to...
     
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  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, given there are already limitations on last gen consoles that exist and are known (GWE for example) I don't know why they're not using all their toys on every route going forward (so layers, animations, shadow distances, subbing etc etc) and then tweaking things DOWN for each console type or PC rating (high, ultra etc)
    Makes much more sense to try to be as real as possible and then work backwards for the machines which are limited by their age rather than limiting everyone
     
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  7. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    This is really disappointing. Why can't DTG just make it available for PC and newer consoles? This is unfair.
     
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  8. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    This attitude affected also MSFS and Asobo with their latest update. Don't know what's wrong in making some extra feature available for people who have computers or newer hardware in general.
     
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  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    As I said above, I think it should work the other way round. Make it work the way it SHOULD and then rein it back for those platforms that are incapable until they work in whatever fashion they can
     
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  10. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    I hope the choice is dictated by the idea of adding some new rolling stock in the future such as this one above (ICE-T DB BR 411).
    Save layers and then add new ones via add-ons.
     
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  11. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Whatever. The belief that everybody should have the same experience regardless of the hardware is wrong.
     
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  12. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I hope it will be 'moded' in \o/
     
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  13. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    Why spend money on a next gen console or decent desktop if your experience doesn't differ from last gen? We're supposed to move forwards, not standing still, what if the night lighting turns out to run bad on last gen? Scrapping that as well?
     
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  14. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This is where a separation of what substitutes for AI trains and what trains are selectable to drive yourself would come in handy. A limit on the number of locos substituting for AI at any one time but a full range of appropriate locos to select to drive. It’s only the potential high number of different unique train models loaded into the route that would cause the issues on older consoles as far as I’m aware. This is going to become a bigger issue the more different trains are introduced without such a system or other core improvements. The lack of a 155 on this route in particular is a huge shame.
     
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  15. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    It's been very evident for the past couple of years that many aspects of the game are being aimed and designed for the consoles and as a PC user it does feel that the game on the PC platform is being held back. DTG are in real danger of alienating the PC user base.

    The user interface, especially the livery editor and scenario planner is horrible to use with a mouse and keyboard and appears to have been designed purely for the consoles. I think its about time that the console users accept that a machine costing a few hundred pounds is not going to give them same experience as a PC costing a few thousand.

    The "same for everyone" policy that DTG has is doing more harm than good. The consoles have added a whole level of complexity when it comes to releasing DLC and updates, which seems to cause nothing but problems. I really think DTG should spread their workload by going back to separate release dates for each platform. Reading between the lines, it seems that a lot of bug fixes which could easily be pushed out to PC users are held back until suitable dates are found for the consoles.

    Whilst I enjoy the Twitch livestreams I am finding them less and less relevant, particularly the roadmap streams as more time is dedicated to specific console issues.
     
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  16. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    This argument makes no sense. Layers on HMA are disabled on the old generation consoles, so just disable the 155 layer in Dresden and let those who have invested money in next generation machines get the full benefit of those machines. If people want the extra stuff, they too can upgrade when they’re ready to do so. It might seem harsh, but that’s life.
     
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  17. Task

    Task Well-Known Member

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    It's not a layer. It's substitution. Substitution doesn't have platform dependency (yet?).
     
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  18. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    It's like Task says:
    The freight services are already in BRD. The Br 155 would not have a layer, but would just be enabled for substitution. There is no evidence thus far that substitution can be disabled on a platform by platform basis.

    At least Matt said that there's still testing going on. I have some fleeting hope that the 155 will make it yet. Probably in vain, but as we Germans say: Die Hoffnung stirbt zuletzt - hope dies last.
     
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  19. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I’ll understand all this one day. I think.
     
  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    If the 155 is the more frequent train on the route then the 155 should be the default freighter on that route, then subbing wouldn't be needed and there wouldn't be additional trains for consoles to cope with
     
  21. grob-e

    grob-e Well-Known Member

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    Well, since DB Cargo has put all of their BR 155 out of service by 2019, i'm sure there will be some people complaining, if it would be driveable on an up-to-date-route. ^^
     
  22. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    grob-e is right:
    The version of the 155 we have does no longer exist and is only used by private rail companies now. It is by no means more numerous than the Br 185 on BRD. Apart from the Br 155 just being nice to drive, the reason it is on everyone's lips is probably because of the historic context. As you may or may not know, the Br 155 was originally called Br 250 and was built for the East German (called DDR in Germany) Deutsche Reichsbahn. BRD is the first route set in the former DDR since Rapid Transit and getting the 155 on it would basically be bringing it back home to the tracks it was originally designed for and ran on using (at least partially) the original historic signalling system.
     
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  23. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    And again another point why (last gen) consoles are holding back the entire potential this game can offer.
     
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  24. Matěj Houska

    Matěj Houska New Member

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    You should realize one thing. Players of the last generations will definitely not move to new generations of consoles now. Because they are stupidly overpriced, often sold out. There are a lot of last generation players and there will be. It will take a long time for players to have a lot of money and luck to buy an overpriced PC, Xbox Series X or S or PS5. It's just my opinion so please respect it.
     
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  25. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    This would be a solution we've practically seen in action by accident. On SEHS the 465/9 was selectable but substituted on practically no AI trains. So they could just... make the same mistake again.
     
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  26. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Having the BR155 would be awesome. I do not care about the other loco's that are "missing".
     
  27. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    This doesn't make any sense to me. The 155 already substitutes on many routes on the older consoles. I just don't get why there would be a performance hit specific to the Dresden route?
     
  28. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Comes down to how many trains have to load into a route, 20x BR 146.2’s takes up much less memory than 20 different locos.
     
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  29. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Because the route includes a lot of different rolling stock already on its own.
     
  30. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I don’t get why we can have DLC that has varying levels of content between platforms, but suddenly a mere substitution is off the cards?
     
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  31. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    I remember them saying they wouldn’t want to hold back anything because of last generation consoles. That’s a big bummer.
     
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  32. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Sice long time the console players are a big part of videogames according to devs business case. So i see no problem in that even if im only using pc.

    The weird part for me is why the "overall stage" of dtg products is based on the weakest platform.

    Ironicly i work for a train manufacturer. The philosophy today is innovation and be on top (move forward, risk new paths).
    Ignoring that means: YOU ARE OUT OF THE GAME...

    I will spend money on digital content in future. If DTG will be the company which delivers the No 1 experience.., i guess time will tell.

    To be honest, right now im getting that whith tsw2.
     
  33. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    For anyone who didn‘t catch today‘s stream, there are some slightly optimistic news.
    Matt is going to oversee a re-evaluation of BRD‘s timetable since it doesn‘t deliver the rush hour feeling they were aiming for. Of interest for this thread:
    1. There will be more freight services since only a fraction of the real-life freight traffic is currently represented as services in BRD.
    2. Matt acknowledged that not having the 155 on the first major East German route (with freight) would be a terrible shame and will instruct the responsible engineers to try to enable more freight locos for substitution. Mentioned were the Br 155 and the MRCE Br 182.
    None of these changes will make it for release, but are expected to arrive as an update roughly around the time when the UK Brighton route comes.
     
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  34. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Matt mentioned that the timetable isnt "Rush Hour" enough so it gets revised for more traffic.
     
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  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think there's a big difference in "being risky" when your customer base is very small but your item cost is in the millions compared to a small software house working in a world where there are literally millions of other games that could be played, even of only a dozen are direct competitors.
     
  36. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Sure thats true, in my post i ment to take a risk in new and creative solutions. Here an example which doesnt particullary fit in the br 155 topic anymore:

    Since Train simulator 20xx exists, they are following the same kind of "short" type of routes. I Posted this in the suggestions, why not try something new and develop an entire GWR Route from London to Penzance?.
    There is nothing wrong with the Routes now, just think with the new unreal engine there should be possible more and will be people buying that too.

    Another example:

    Yes the customer base is small with "gamers". But there are tonns of trains running out there. Actually there are Devs making Flight Sim products, which is used by Military for Simulator Training (A2A Simlations made a T6 Texan II trainer, not available for Public).
    There must be Train Operators with interest in a simulation for Training purpose. (Sifa, PzB, AFB / Route learning / Locomotive Training..etc.) Even if those Products would not be available for Public, they could leed to new core technologies.

    Well im neither DTG, nor a software developer, so i guess i miss something XD.
     
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It's about developer time and development cost.
    A route in TS1 costs x amount to build, a station in TS1 costs x amount to build, a loco in TS1 costs x amount to build
    IN TSW multiple route x 4, station x 6, and loco x 20 (numbers plucked from the air) but that's about it... So if you can buy Paddington to Reading for £25 and it took six months to develop, how much is it going to cost to develop to PNZ? Ten times more?
    And it's not even that simple. Lines in and out of Paddington are NOT complex. There are two fast lines and two slow ones. Moving between them happens at specific places. There are a few branch lines, but they all use the same stock (the 166 when the line is set)

    When you move beyond the SouthEast you then introduce different traffic flows, different consists, different branding... Think about it, in Reading to London you have four "brands" (GWE, TfL, LUL, freight), but once you get out towards Bristol you also have CrossCountry, SouthWestern etc... You also have loads of other trains and consists, short form HSTs, Classes 153,156,150/1,158
    So it's not as simple as "well just extend it". There's a hell of a lot of work to do to get anywhere near the required detail which TS1 only has because of a decade of development by several companies
     
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  38. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    I have the strange feeling it will be like the Bakerloo line... so no new timetable at all despite being promised.
     
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  39. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I remember Matt saying he'd have loved to have done GWE all the way to Cornwall, but it was a case of see you in about 10 years (and that's assuming the company would survive that).

    Despite popular opinion, the game (and also presumably the dev team) are perfectly capable of doing that, but it just takes too long - further compounded by the roadmap, if it's on for too long, people will get impatient and think DTG have forgotten about it or pester them about it (see the Class 313), but if they get on with it and don't put it on the roadmap until nearer release, people are going tog et suspicious (tbh they'd get suspicious anyway if it goes on and then releases within a few months (see Cathcart where people were seriously saying it'd have absolutely no scenery in parts because it's a thing to keep the work experience kid busy - those ideas proving to be unfounded), and basically would defeat the point of the roadmap.

    TS1 gets longer routes simply because the devs are able to produce a longer route in the same amount of time (I think partly because TS1 routes overall command less detail than TSW ones, and TSW requires more time be spent on gameplay, but there'll no doubt be other reasons).
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
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