Dresden - The Definitive Feedback Thread.

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Aug 31, 2021.

  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Are we ready everyone for another feed? I'll probably update my thoughts live in here as I watch. I'm interested to see what comes out of this one.... :cool:
     
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  2. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    I helpfully present a bingo card to keep track of issues mentioned in the thread (in good humour of course).

    upload_2021-8-31_20-2-21.png
     
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  3. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I do really like that night lighting. Shame it's most likely going to be exclusive to Dresden for a while but quite a good step in the right direction I think.
     
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  4. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    The lighting is quite different to what we are used to. In a positive way.
     
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  5. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    The night lighting is great. Massive improvement. Hope it makes it to the other routes ASAP. Love the reflective signs too.
     
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  6. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Enough said. :)

    Cheers
     
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  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Night lighting looks a lot better.Much better.
    I hope this becomes part of the normal build process now.

    Question - will the db323 be available to use on other German routes now?
     
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  8. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I am very very happy with the new night lighting. :love:
    Thank you for listening to the community, DTG.
     
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  9. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Loving the new containers. Keep up the good work. Hope we see some more containers coming through and other rolling stock
     
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  10. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    It's just nice to see a branded container that's not red or orange to be honest :D
     
  11. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    The new autumn foliage looks significantly improved; no more pastel colours. It is difficult to see in the stream compression but it undeniably looks better. I only wish that Clinchfield looked this nice in autumn as that is also the season it is meant to be run in.

    upload_2021-8-31_13-33-54.png
    v.s.
    [​IMG]

    Cheers
     
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  12. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Night lighting looks great. Love the reflective signs. Different color ballast and sleepers. I am definitely looking forward to this route!

    Thanks DTG and second-party contractors!
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2021
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  13. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    Overall I'm quite pleased with what we’ve seen but unfortunately, I do have to mention the obvious lack of overhead wires in this section of track B56AEF6F-23BA-48AA-A3CF-69D7C12B3E9D.jpeg
     
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  14. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    What’s happened to the green speed line in pause screen? Is this broken in core.
    Really looking forward to this route.
     
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  15. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe Adtranz made a hybrid DB BR 101! :o

    Cheers
     
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  16. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    A scenario called Chemical Plant Zone, didn’t expect a Sonic the Hedgehog reference in TSW :D

    Really impressed, route looks nice. Love the new night lights, so much more atmospheric now! Scenery and ballast are nice improvements to previous routes too. I’m hoping that new ballast system can be backdated into SEHS in the future.
     
  17. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    Finally a pleasure to drive at night. The lighting of the cities along the railway surprised me a lot. :)
     
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  18. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    So... after-stream thoughts...

    Great married with terrible

    Positives:

    - first of all - the night lighting is greatly improved, massive credit there, Dresden Altstadt at night looks pretty great, although there are some mistakes there as well (more on that later). Stations are well lit, distant houses are visible etc. Finally possible to enjoy driving throughout the 24h timetable. This needs to be put everywhere it can.
    - the route according to Matt should be fairly busy with 350 drivable and 1000 services in total (NEC BP is about 180/700 IIRC)
    - reworked loco sounds and from the stream, it seems 146.2 is way better mixed (closer to the TSW2020 version) and the annoying wheezing is completely gone... please, DTG, consider completely replacing MSB 146.2 with this if possible
    - reflective signs are neat
    - stations look great overall
    - multiple ballasts (and sleepers)! finally! And there's a nice gradient to the colour, not a sudden jump from one to another

    Negatives:
    - as if the branches were not enough to cut, Dresden Reick has been removed as well, not mentioned anywhere, just missing week(s) prior to release... this would only be two stops "behind" Dresden Hauptbahnhof for S1s and S2s to use, BUT it was supposed to feature an IC cleaning facility, so all IC services (and some ICEs) coming to Dresden would continue here, have a runaround or a change of coach sets and go back for another departure. That's 1-3 services for every incoming IC train (depending on the number of cuts between manoeuvres), so about 12-36 missing services (very different to the rest) because of this unannounced cut. I hate to say I was expecting this to happen, but I guess I have lowered my expectations for DTG.
    upload_2021-8-31_22-39-22.png
    (my bad on this one, I judged from a timetable picture in one of the articles, but Reick was not planned from the beginning)
    - from what Matt said (might be different in reality and probably needs a confirmation) 185.5 has no interactions with the new 363 (although there supposedly is a 363 mainline run from Riesa to Nünschritz). Basically, with the 363, you will only be playing in your little industrial playground with no effect on freight trains. This was one of the best things about the 363 DLC - the services it interacted with that brought trains in and out of the yard. This shows that the shunter was an afterthought and missed a bit of an opportunity.
    - as much as the night lightning is great, DD-Hbf is completely wrong in this aspect. The building has a tarp roof that is well lit throughout the night, but in the game, the roof is completely dark and seems like you're departing from beneath a black hole.
    [​IMG]
    upload_2021-8-31_23-3-5.png
    upload_2021-8-31_23-3-40.png
    - a significant portion of OHLE is missing on the avoiding lines, not just wires, but complete catenary etc. (this can probably be fixed relatively fast, but who knows)
    upload_2021-8-31_23-4-42.png
    - (nitpick incoming) the Dresden Neustadt sign should not be lit up during the day, it's not a shining beacon
    [​IMG]
    upload_2021-8-31_23-5-6.png
    - (another nitpick) Dresden Mitte has a weirdly tilted PIS board on one platform
    - couple of wrongly set lights, no passenger lights, no destinations, etc.
    Thoughts and little things:
    - with night finally being a lot more viable the number of freight trains could be significantly increased during it. As most passenger trains are not running at that time, freight takes over. There could easily be 100 freight runs on this route as it's very busy freight wise even during the day
    - the 185.5 outside Riesa on the second run seemed to have no pantograph up
    - the stream quality today seemed a lot worse than usual, not only the stutters (caused by who knows what), but the overall resolution (or bitrate) seemed lacking on both platforms

    There might be more things that could be added to both positives and negatives, but I'm sure there will be many people noticing different things, these are just some I myself have noticed and wanted to share. As someone very familiar with the real counterpart the route looks a lot like the real thing but is held back by all the cuts and has a couple of small and huge problems. Perhaps there's room for this route to improve and squeeze something from what's left of the original project. There are a couple of yards and industries left to fill, use different shunters (maybe Maik's G6) and perhaps add new services.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
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  19. klimi15

    klimi15 Developer

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    Dresden Reick never was mentioned or in the scope. Atleast when I laid the track it wasn’t there and was never going to be there?
    Why is that a negative? It’s multiple stations that need a lot of work
     
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  20. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    It was mentioned in the timetable article and the timetable for the whole section from Meißen to Reick was shown there.
     
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  21. klimi15

    klimi15 Developer

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    Well its important to have knowledge of the yard to make the timetable, never was said it’s included in the route. Atleast im pretty sure
     
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  22. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    Little rant incoming, folks.

    The stream quality - even in 1080p - today was again so bad that one can't really judge the track or any details. You can see that quite well on the screenshots in this thread. There are no overhead wires at all, the tracks disappear 50m in front of the train in brown mud, the whole picture is dark and completely compressed to death (have a look at posts #11 or #13 for example).

    To be honest, the picture quality on your streams is always bad, today it was just poor. I dont know what the problem is there but if I would not know, how awesome TSW2 actually looks on my own PC, I would never make a purchase decision based on that streams.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2021
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  23. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Well-Known Member

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    More freight would be nice, as well as BR155 substitution. I'm not sure about MRCE BR182. And why can't we get Eanos freight cars?
     
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  24. Cash

    Cash Active Member

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    In the stream, we were driving a regional bahn/express (i don't know which one), anyways.. The dostos livery was saying 'S Bahn Dresden'. Is this authentic? It find it odd that a regional train has a livery saying 'S bahn'.
     
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  25. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    In the end the new light system is what I like most. I still think it's a missed opportunity for this route to become the best German route in TSW2, but overall a decent preview.
     
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  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't make sense, at all. RBs and REs are operated by DB Regio using their own rolling stock in their own livery (except where the contract has gone to somebody else like Abellio). They aren't owned by VVO and wouldn't carry that paint.
     
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  27. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Yes, these cars were running on RE50 along the Talent 2s when those were still being delivered. Not sure if that was still the case in 2019 though, but as all doppelstocks in Dresden have S-Bahn marking, as soon as you need some on RE50, it will be those.
     
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  28. mrcharliemiggins2.0

    mrcharliemiggins2.0 Well-Known Member

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    Skip to 5:30 in the below video, and as that train departs you can see the vvo and s-bahn carriages. Although the other Leipzig bound REs are RegioDB livery
     
  29. Huntlosen

    Huntlosen Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    What happened to the zp9 signals at the exit from Dresden.
     
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  30. klimi15

    klimi15 Developer

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    No real mechanism to actually use them. Gameplay would need to implement that. They are fitted though.
     
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  31. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

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    I hope we can get some simular seens to this on the way into London Victoria on the Brighton Mainline, even ifnot to the entire route, at least were it makes sense. Would hate to see this only on a route which I know I wont play much! Always feels like the German routes get a lot more attention given to them.
     
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  32. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    That's not fair (or accurate).

    Nat mentioned over three months ago that what appeared in the timetable screenshot "does not however guarantee that everything on the document will be included in the DLC."

    If you look at the route map before the branches were cut, the route had always ended at Dresden Hbf.
     
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  33. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    The night lighting on this route is greatly improved compared to previous routes like Cathcart. It begs the question - why wasn't this done before and why can it not be retrofitted into other routes that suffer from this problem.? Will the next route, BML, have the improved lighting? Why wasn't the same technique used in Boston Sprinter?
    The lighting overall is so inconsistent from one route to the next.

    Headlights are another inconsistency. The F40PH-3 has good headlights, the ACS-64 does not. The headlights on the loco used in the first half of the Dresden stream were rather poor, I thought.

    I don't know. Once again, I'm scratching my head over this issue. Losing what's left of my thinning hair.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
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  34. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    good to see the nightlighting being improved this way,the thing that dissapointed me was the 363,since it has no effect whatsoever on traffic it suffers the same issue as the 204. "go shunt a bit in your corner,or don't,doesn't really matter"
     
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  35. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Two second-party contractors did that specific work for Dresden.

    Perhaps DTG didn't have the time or manpower or expertise to do it "before," (or it's related to improvements in 4.26)?
     
  36. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why, but I feel a bit disappointed with what was shown so far on the stream. While the night lighting was great, there was nothing else to excite me - just to be clear, I'm a fan of the reused German rolling stock so that's not a problem for me.

    However, there's a few things I felt a bit meh with. To me, the route still felt a bit empty. Yes I know it is supposed to be the real life timetable, but most of the bigger stations were empty - a huge contrast to Boston South for example. Although, 350 playable services with 1000 in total including all AI ones does sound good, maybe some better services to show off the Rush Hour feel in the next stream would be good? There also seemed to be a lot of playable services which seemed to average around 30 mins or less, maybe not so bad if there's variety, but I'm unsure for now.

    Also, personally for me the route did not look the most exciting to drive on.

    I'm a big fan of German routes, but I'm unsure as of yet if this route is for me. Conversely, I was happy after the first Boston Sprinter stream at this stage.
     
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  37. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    I feel I need to clear this up properly. As Lukas said above, DD-Reich was not part of the scope. The table we showed has extra stop times to DD-Reich to help provide more context.
    [​IMG]
    If you have a look at the Dresden area of this table, the extra info allows you to quickly see which services terminate at Dresden and from which direction. The timings also allow us to make a better estimate on when the service should depart the portal. Had the branches not been part of the scope, I probably would've included Coswig to Meißen on this table, again to help with portal timings.

    My apologies that this image has mislead many. In future if we show this sort of thing again, I'll crop those parts off or add a disclaimer.
     
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  38. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    All I can say is this night time lightning is amazing and so much better and very Realistic, This Is how all routes should be like at night time From Now On, which i reallly do hope that Dovetail team- Adam, along with Matt, and everyone else realized that, this is what the team should bring to all their upcoming routes and preserved route as well. This is definitely what people should be paying for. I really do hope that we see more of these improvement. So Far the team especially Adam and others have really step up and make huge improvement. Hopefully it won't be too loong to see this lightning improvement added to all their upcoming route along with preserved route, and we will also see Dynamic Weather, added before the end of this year. All I can say Is Keep Up the Amazing Work Team. :):)
     
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  39. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    So true, if you were to compare it to the real life world. I hope they fix this before they released it.
     
  40. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Fair point then, I accept my mistake here.
     
  41. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I was very impressed with the night time lighting. This feature has to be quickly implemented in existing routes and should be included in all future routes, including BML. It’s also strange that we have another 146 which is vastly improved, but we still have the not so improved 146 in the game. Having multiple of the same locos is definitely confusing.
     
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  42. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    That track type looks brilliant!
     
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  43. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I just hope we see consistency and the improvements made in this are in all future releases. I’d wait longer for BML so it is. I put money thr lighting in Cornwall will look nothing like this. It’s frustrating when a good route takes a step back in the next
     
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  44. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Cornwall will be dark at night...within seconds of leaving the towns you are in the dark wilds of the countryside. In the 1990's there was even more countryside than there is now.
     
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  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't done before because the game is developing and progressing so when some engineer or 2nd party comes up with how to do it, and to do it efficiently within budget (both money and GPU/CPU cost) then they develop it. It's no different to level crossings etc
    We also know there are different engineering teams working on different things at different times and paces so it's not so hard to believe that things will come along and then be included on one route even following on so closely from the development of another route. It may well be that BML isn't lit the same way, or DTG can hurredly go back and apply it to that route between now and when that route gets released.

    Hopefully the technique isn't too intensive engineer wise, though I fear it means adjusting all buildings and surfaces along the route to provide lighting and reflection attributes, and that would be a heck of a lot of work
     
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  46. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Tbh I don't expect the new night lights to be introduced in existing routes.
    On the other hand, as somebody mentioned above, it's a bit silly to have different versions of the DB BR146: one old and buggy and one patched and new. This is something we have seen before also with the Dostos.
    I think this causes confusion to customers and it unnecessarily complicates bug tracking and I reckon at some point, to improve their products, DTG needs to think how to change this.
     
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  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately this has been an inbuilt issue since TSW was originally made. the Locos are tied to routes, and obviously now there are layers and alternates so any run which relies on a certain loco from a certain route would need to be updated as well if they changed the origin loco. Even changing physics would mess up timings and so on (not a small amount of work to check)
     
  48. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    I know their policy, but doing this it's almost impossible to track bugs and even if you manage to track bugs it's hugely time-consuming.

    DTG approach to link locos to the route could be feasible when there are a limited number of DLC: now it's impossible.

    Even if it requires additional work, it's something I think at some point should be considered, as I think it will make their life easier in the future. Just a suggestion.
     
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  49. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not "policy" but core manner in which the game is built. As in from the file structure upwards

    Oh I agree it needs to be looked at, in fact it was a known issue from Train Sim Classic where there are at least SIX versions of the class 66 all with different physics, sounds etc etc so it's not a new issue
     
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  50. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    It certainly does, it really adds extra immersion to the route, v impressed. V realistic. Also impressed with the foliage placement, looks decent.

    Hopefully,fingers crossed, L2B will have the same track treatment, I'm not a massive fan of the current Cathcart style track personally.
     
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