PC Dtg - Not Fixing Stuff Is Costing You Money

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by OldVern, Nov 24, 2022.

  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Try being civil in my thread.

    Reading through the last several posts, I can't see anyone dissing TSC. It has issues just as TSW does with physics and reliability, but if you choose carefully then you will be rewarded. There is certainly no doubt steam traction functions better, whether the latest and greatest from Bossman, Victory etc. or older content - even the old Kuju RS Black Five and S&D 2-8-0 from 2007 are better than what Spirit Of Steam delivered.
     
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  2. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Eventualy a free alternative called reshade
     
  3. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Are dtg losing money though? The way I see it we are a minority here on the forum. Say dtg for example, sell 10,000 units in a month, out of those 10,000 people only 50 come on here to complain and a majority of those keep buying dlc anyway! The other 9,950 ain't bothered about the state of the dlc and are just happy to be driving trains.

    Dtg look at these figures and come to the conclusion fixing bugs isn't really a priority. I'm not talking about the devs that come on the forum either. But the heads of the company, upper management.

    Look at any company, if they sell 10,000 units of anything with only a handful of complaints, they are gonna keep selling it in the sorry state its in.

    There's the high priority game braking bugs that get attention. But maybe dtg are bound by the t&c's of Microsoft and Sony to fix them anyway.
     
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  4. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    The funny thing is there are usually about 10-30 reviews of a DLC on Steam... if those 50 of us here were to put the reviews there, it might do a lot more
     
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well there's a bit of a sting in the tail as most of the DLC reviews vanished when everything moved over to TSW3.
     
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  6. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine for the price of tsw dlc the reviews don't make that much difference.
    If it was a £80 game then people would most likely read the reviews. Most tend to decide for themselves anyway.
     
  7. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I never knew that!
     
  8. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I did notice on steam last night when I was looking thru the sales it gave you the option to purchase all dlc for 800 odd quid. That was with the discounts :o
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The developers of SimRail also plan to release it on consoles. It will be in early access for as long as it takes and then presumably after that, a console release will be planned. I do hope the devs take their time with that game as it does have alot of potential and seems like the competitor tsw desperately needs
     
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  10. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well I have just registered for the (PC) early access but at the moment there are no free slots. Must have filled up almost instantly it became available.
     
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  11. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Thing I would say if you just want a train drive from A to B no frills then TSW does that without fuss. If you have an eye for detail and are an experienced simmer then you may start seeing issues. If your an experienced railway employee as well as a seasoned player of rail simulation the holes that can be picked are huge.

    However if DTG continue to shift enough to make profit then all that matters is the first group really, train from A to B and back if you want. I am certain there is people at DTG who would want a more complex and bug free offering but the bottom line is what counts.
     
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  12. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I am contemplating a PC upgrade with this Sim in mind. 3070 cards are starting to reduce looking at Black Friday offers.
     
  13. Shackamaxon

    Shackamaxon Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly the crossroad I often find myself stuck at !
    Which group do I find myself aligned to ?

    I love TSW when it does good things, and I get frustrated when it doesn't...
     
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  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I really need a new PC, but nearly fell off my chair after running a fairly modest (or so I thought) spec through PC Specialist (who used to be quite price friendly) and it came out at nearly £1500!

    In other news, back to our earlier topic of TSC, I just fired up North Wales Coast and having great fun taking a 158 (which now seems to have correct Sprinter physics) down from Bangor to Holyhead (well would prefer a 40 and Mark 1's, but that's me being an old fart). The route is nicely done and also comes with a 175 and 221 which I have yet to try, plus I bought the Bossman Royal Scot which is supposed to have some scenarios but suspect they are buried away in Standard. The point is, that little pack represents superb value for money - a cracking decent length route, 3 trains included with the DLC and the ability to layer in more. Why aren't DTG doing more like this for TSW, instead of these one shot, one train sawn off electrified commuter routes.
     
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  15. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I have been asking similar and answers back from some in the community are that TSW rollings stock is complex and expensive to produce.
     
  16. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I definitely would stay away from whatever is in the negative field, so it might be useful.
     
  17. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Of course DTG is not loosing money with TSW. If they would loose money they wold have changed already when it comes to QA and fixing issues, or no longer would do TSW at all.

    All our appeals are more to the devs because we believe they have passion for the content they create...
    Im not sure our approach is working.
     
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  18. Shackamaxon

    Shackamaxon Well-Known Member

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    The way I look at it...
    They are passionate 'train enthusiasts', not responsible 'game developers'.
    And I'm fine with that as there aren't many 'train enthusiasts' in this industry anyways.
     
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  19. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I am very much afraid the number of train enthusiasts in the company is also very limited. There's a couple for sure - Matt, Joe, Adam,... - but who knows how passionate about their work the bulk of the people is.
     
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  20. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    They should be passionate about fixing bugs as well
     
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  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes as we have said before on here about jobs on the real railway, you want people with the required skillset and a passion for the prototype, which might lead to distraction, isn't necessarily one of them.

    Anyhow the supreme irony from my OP is that the remainder of my refund money got ploughed back into DTG after purchasing the Huddersfield route for TSC last night. It complements the TSW version nicely and the 47 in particular is a pleasure to drive. The modern alignment means you can get a bit more thrash and sustained fast running compared to the other version. That, North Wales Coast and my earlier purchase of the Taurus mountain route are keeping me pretty much off TSW for the moment.
     
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  22. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I agree and think moving to UES is the answer when the time is right but there is still a nagging thought that if they did move to UE5 in the future and did it afresh would we we get a whole new load of bugs? I hope not obviously.

    Again agree, TSW3 is still the same engine as TSW2 with all the same bugs. TSW2 should of been updated and bugs addressed. How many times has it been now where DTG release screen shots of upcoming DLC and some forum members point out the mistakes. Despite their outsourcing of QA and Beta testing sometimes. I notice some developers on steam both indie and triple A involve their consumers from the start cause they know the public will jump on mistakes from the get go, imo this would improve the quality of TSW and might save them money.

    A game update is not a bug fix and in the three updates you were concerned with was a bug fix to fix the update. It would be nice to have TSW2 fixed as promised.

    I still remember my old 1080TI performing well under TSW2 although I have a 3060 now and get good results I thought the difference would be greater.

    In these days of fake reviews (on both sides) for I take notice of both negative and positive. Both sides have here extremes but I try to find a balance. Buying whatever based on just Fanboi reviews is just as problematic as buying it based on hate. If there is a good reason for the negative review I tend to take more notice of that.
     
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  23. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    That's curious, because they are called Update Notes. Perhaps check your prescription.

    Cheers
     
  24. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I think that maybe the devs would like to do more but upper management is giving them a strict time frame to complete a route and the time they are given isn't enough.
     
  25. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    That's ok but to be blunt I am pretty bored in TSW that coupled to the lack of anything BR style has led to me leaving the fold. Coming back depends on a route that appeals and maybe some features also. Dynamic routing or a timetable editor neither of which inam holding my breath on.
     
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  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Even the modern stuff seems more appealing in TSC, sometimes.
     
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  27. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    TSW just looks very unnatural most of the time...sadly.
     
  28. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully now more 3rd parties are joining we might get some real good routes. I think the only time we might get any real editing tools is when dtg is done with tsw and move onto something else.
     
  29. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I think tsc appeals to me the most, I can make some good scenarios and there's a much bigger variety of everything.
     
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  30. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    That's why I read them too - understandably it takes some time, but I prefer that to throwing money around without second thought
     
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  31. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well we have gone from over dark to bleached out, though the mod helps a bit. The lighting in TSC just looks so much better, despite the 15 year old game engine and the sounds - well A rated as opposed to TSW D rating.
     
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  32. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how DTG could mess up the lighting so badly in TSW
     
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  33. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Lightings the hardest thing to do in a game which attempts to portray the world as we see it on a flat screen.
     
  34. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    It don't look to bad on my hd monitor that's quite dark anyway but on a 4k display it's like post nuclear war lighting.
     
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  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I can't say the lighting looks that bad from what I have seen so far in TSW3. Yes the cab in the class 323 needs some work although it isn't a major issue as far as I am concerned but certainly in CCL the lighting looks good to me. Although Birmingham does look like it has had a city wide powercut at night.
     
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  36. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I take no notice of reviews and just make my own mind up from watching streams and from those on here I can trust to be neutral in their views. There is bias shown on both sides, I am sure some do wear rose tinted glasses but many of the negative reviews are there because someone has failed to read a manual or can't work out how to get a train moving and some clearly are out of spite.
     
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  37. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    I play lots of other simulators and not one has the lighting issues that TSW has.
     
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  38. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I prefer the old lighting. Ok you couldn't see nothing in total darkness but that's how the real world looks anyway.
     
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  39. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 lighting was messed up, everything was tar black in Shadows.
    TSW3 lighting is messed up, everything is overly bright and Eye Adaption has many very noticible bugs.

    We TSW players cant catch a break... :(

    And remember...the new lighting was a big selling point for TSW3...
     
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  40. sequencer2k16

    sequencer2k16 Well-Known Member

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    I can only agree with that, it would be a dream if TSW 3 would get back the lighting of TSW 2.
     
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  41. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Not really because in TSW2 everything looked like it was coated with black tar, especially the ground. What TSW3 needs is a slider to moderate the eye adaptation or switch it off altogether.
     
  42. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I noticed far less of the old problems than I do the new problems. Overly bright cabs. Sos looking like a 50s cartoon. Any time in the day when it's cloudy makes tsc look superior to tsw. The bright lighting highlights graphical flaws we never used to be able to see, like tree rendering, then shadow rendering on the trees, distance trees look like cardboard props, some foliage looks like cardboard props even when it's close, the foliage colours don't fit the new lighting either. We still get the black tar at certain times of night, fog that blacks out everything. The horrid effect when coming out of tunnels, over exposure that fits a camera well but the veiw of a driver not good at all. Rain that you can't see thru at night with the headlights on etc etc.....
     
  43. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    A game update is not the same as a game bug fix, both qualify to be included in the notes. I would check your definitions it does help.

    Probably the same person is doing the sound? (jk)

    Yeah I forgot about the reviews on youtube which is handy as well but then they can sometimes be abused by them not showing any glitches unless it is live. For me it is a combination of all three, 1, video 2, negative review 3, positive review.
     
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  44. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Tsw2 lighting was a step back from 3
     

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