Dtg Please Hire More Sound /audio Engineers

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by GT2, Feb 15, 2021.

?
  1. Yes

    72 vote(s)
    88.9%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    11.1%
  1. GT2

    GT2 Well-Known Member

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    Hello to everyone reading this.I know this has been an issue for some time now with the sound and my question to DTG Respectively,are there any plans on hiring any new and experienced sound engineer that will fix past dlc's with the preservation team as well as ensures making sure, future dlc's sounds are re-balanced properly?

    My criticism in regards to sounds : No track noise (Excluding junction's),reusing sounds that are inaccurate(Examples)SandPatchGrade the horn used is reused Gp38 - 2 Horn from NEC and to add insult to injury the sound is wrong..See here :

    Train Sim World 2 comparison Ps4 pro:


    (Example 2)LIRR M7 Horn reused for LIRR M3 Horn again wrong,,see here :

    Moving to next issue : riding as passenger the sounds on Bakerloo,LIRR M7,LIRR M3 are again missing the track noise and rumbling shaking that goes on especially going into tunnels.The exterior view of TGV Duplex 200,BR Class 395 Javelin and the ICE3M at top speed it loops and sounds horrible honestly sorry.

    Im going to end it with ambiance : Although i barely go outside and othen find myself operating mainly from in the cab view,but I've noticed you don't hear passengers talking in the train,people walking,sneezing,coughing ,music etc.


    I want to highly stress that i love this game and been a favorite for me ever since i bought it!Im pro DTG and will continue to support as long as we keep the transparency but as fan of the game and company,i must share the good,bad and the ugly.I also would like clarify this is issue amongst all countries,and i ask for everyone to unite especially for sound it truly is immersion breaking,on all content with exception of track noise on EOW and 1 of my favorites the DB 185.2

    Anyone have anything moreto add,please do lets all help make this simulator be all that it can be thank you!


    My game profiles and commitment/proof to TSW :D cheers!
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/tsw2020-player-scoreboard.19102/

    TSW 2020 :
    TSW 2 :
     

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  2. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Yes you're right, the sound should really get fixed
     
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  3. pugilist3

    pugilist3 Member

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    I also agree, the sounds are very disappointing!
     
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  4. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I eagerly anticipated TSW2 and then patiently waited for each of my preserved DLC to appear in the game, only to experience the immersion-breaking, looping sounds that destroy the experience for me.

    I love the game dearly - it's the only game I play. But the length of time being taken to solve the sound issues in the preserved collection is dragging on with no end in sight. As we watch the release of new DLC, new PIS, new trains in livery designer, the announcement of steam... not forgetting working crossing barriers... We are still left with substandard, if not awful, sound issues in some content.

    I look forward to the awaited day where these will be fixed. I really want DTG to succeed with this, but I wish it was given more prioritization and importance.

    On numerous occasions in roadmap streams, it has been clearly stated that we are not supposed to buy all DLC, but the game is intended for us to develop our own personal collections based on our preferences and interests. In that case, I want my collection to have sounds that are authentic and not broken. Currently, I cannot play some of my favourite DLC because of this.
     
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  5. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

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    DTG did a great job with GWE and NTP wen releasing these for TSW2. Now that the preserved team is working on LIRR and the audio for the M3 and M7, I really hope they'll do just as good a job again. If they do, I'll have great hopes for the future :)
     
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  6. dseamans3192

    dseamans3192 New Member

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    Everything you've said is spot on. I hope DTG listen.
     
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  7. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, sounds need to be improved in-general. Why is there no track noise on Routes like the Bakerloo Line or LIRR when they still use bolted tracks? The game makes it seem like you're always on continuously grinded rail.

    Another thing is the Traction Motors. Some trains sound amazing like the BR 423 and ICE 3, while others, like the M3 and M7 have broken, or just generally incorrect sounds. There are major inconsistencies with the quality of sound across the routes in the game.

    I know that this has been mentioned before, and it may be a long way off, but Automated Announcements. IRL, on routes like LIRR, the Bakerloo Line, East Coastway, and more, you would hear Automated Announcements while on the train. In the game, you hear none of this, sometimes leading to an unimmersive experience.

    Then you have the horrible looping... and all of that just leads to an unenjoyable experience. Especially when you have to hear it for over an hour.
     
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  8. RailRoadEngineer

    RailRoadEngineer Member

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    Hire AP
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds definitely need improvements across the board
     
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  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they should since dtg never do a great job with sounds on most trains
     
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  11. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    423 and ICE3 sound was made by me, so outsourced work at least. Same for 425, 442, 363. So they do "hire" different and more audio "engineers" already.
     
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  12. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    And you did a very nice job there! Kudos to you
     
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  13. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I've already got used to almost everything... but horns :| oh my
     
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  14. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Getting horns recorded is often complicated or basically not doable. I can only speak for Germany, but getting a horn recoreded here is something that is rare because it is not allowed to blow the horn when you don't need to. Of course, there are some chances here and there to record one, but at this particular moment you are not on the right spot. So all we can do is to lay on random recorded horns yet. Second problem is to have the right equipment for the recording of these loud stuff. That's expensive or you will get flat, overdriven recordings.
     
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  15. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know. There are railroad workers on YT (streaming) who have nice samples and they swap them in 'some' games, and I even asked, almost begged to have them. Eh. You will come up with something together with DTG :D
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    So trains in Germany don't routinely sound the whistle at level crossings?
     
  17. GT2

    GT2 Well-Known Member

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    I even forgot to mention the opening andclosing doors on LIRR m7 being reused for LIRR m3 as well.Adam has expressed there is new guy just finishing up training to take on current upcoming preservation fixes.I don't just want 1 excellent dlc and everything else lacking in same place.A priority should be sound,well honestly despite some immersion breaking visuals from ray tracing,the game still looks remarkably beautiful.All countries deserve to have the equally best sounds seriously i love my dlc's they allow me to travel the world and experience everything great about trainsfrom the safety of my home,
     
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  18. supersimfan#2303

    supersimfan#2303 Well-Known Member

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    I want footstep noises on the bakerloo line because it sounds like you've arrived at a closed staition all the time
     
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  19. supersimfan#2303

    supersimfan#2303 Well-Known Member

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    I watched your SEHS review On youtube and your right about the sounds of the 375
     
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  20. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Well, thanks for those amazing sounds in those Trains, we need more Audio Engineers like you that can put together some great sounds.
     
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  21. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for watching it. Some of the things with the game needs to be called out, and sound is one of those things.
     
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  22. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    I'm basically not an audio engineer, just fiddeling around with audio stuff since 25 years or so, and about 10 years in TS now. I just know how to get results, not always the best, but working results. But tbh, i don't like that kind of work. It's hard work, lots of try and error, lots of unusable recordings that need then heavy editing in a audio software before they can get used, and even then they often do not fit or get sounding synthetic to much. That costs a lot of time and motivation and nerves. And the revenue is not that good for doing audio. Even not from some customers who always find something wrong with it. I do it, because i can do and i was getting asked. Primarly i like doing setup stuff more than audio, or route building stuff. Audio is just a thing that is needed and there are not sooo many audio guys out there that can do good audio for TS/TSW.
     
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  23. ethan#3478

    ethan#3478 Member

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    I don't think that they need more sound engineers the sound just needs to be improved
     
  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The fact that matt said when the m3 came out for tsw2020 that the sounds were correct baffled my mind. I don't get why they used the same horn from the m7 to the m3 and the same opening and closing sounds on the m3 from the m7. The m3 doesn't make sounds when the doors open and close apart from the Bell ringing. I do agree that all train sounds or dlc in general should have high quality and high quality sounds across the board. Unfortunately they are not consistent in that department
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  25. jeanmarc094

    jeanmarc094 Well-Known Member

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    what is his channel??
     
  26. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Active Member

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    An urgent need to correct the sounds of BR185,146, it is impossible to play.
    Requires external sound when viewing from a window.
    It is required to improve the sounds of rolling on the rail and knocking of wheels.
    There is not enough rumble, creak and clang of iron when moving.
     
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  27. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    They have brought AP on board to provide sounds, they were involved with the 377 and 31. I wonder if AP would rather not help make DTG stuff too good as that removes the option for them to sell expensive enhancement packs in the future.
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They were involved with the 377 and still got it wrong
     
  29. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. No horns whatsoever. The only times you use the horn as far as I'm aware is if
    1. there's danger and you need to warn someone (obviously).
    2. a loco in a busy depot is powered up and moved for the first time (not whenever it moves).
    3. You see this sign:[​IMG]
    Otherwise, no horn.
     
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  30. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Me, MysticZeenoz
     
  31. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    They were missing one or two sounds. It's still "Good Enough" and not obnoxious as the M3, or some of the buggy sounds on the German Locos.
     
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  32. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    That's gonna be a nope.
     
  33. Tasr

    Tasr Member

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    The track noise on Bakerloo line is the biggest issue with the bakerloo line for me, there's no "da daa da dum" in the tunnels, and although there is flanging from the wheels round sharp corners, I don't think there's enough
     
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  34. singularity

    singularity New Member

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    Sound is my biggest gripe with TSW2. They're just really lacking and take me out of the simulator.

    Sound is a big deal to me. It's the main reason why I am drawn to trains. It is the sounds they make that drew me to them. I wouldn't really care about them otherwise. Travelling on the London Underground and taking in the loudness would always fill me with such satisfaction. Every time I would travel on the tube that would be going through the tunnels, I'd get excited. The tunnels is where the London Underground shines for me.

    The trains sound good out of the tunnel, don't get me wrong, but when they're inside the tunnels, that's where the magic happens.

    When I saw that TSW2 were releasing a London Underground route, I got a little excited. It looked good. I raced to watch a video of it just to see what it sounded like. That's when my excitement for it immediately left. What I heard sounded nothing like the London Underground at all. It sounded empty. Lifeless. You did not get the impression an old train was driving through a narrow tunnel. It really breaks the immersion.

    I gave it a test drive myself when I bought TSW2 and let's just say I was not immersed. It looks great, but that's about all the route has going for it. I found a mod that slightly improves the sound, but even then, it's still nowhere near as good as it should be. The track noise is almost non-existent in the tunnels. And when it can be heard, it's not being affected by the tunnel. It's sounding like it's still outside.

    I don't expect 100% accuracy, I don't think anyone does. But surely you can do better than what you've come up with? I mean, I recently played an OpenBVE Jubilee Line route and it sounded so much better. When I was in the tunnels, I felt like I was driving a London Underground train in a tunnel. OpenBVE is a very old simulator. If that can get it right, surely TSW2 can too?

    I do regret buying TSW2 if I'm honest. It seems like the makers of this simulator do not have an appreciation for sound accuracy. They don't seem to care if it's accurate or not. They'll just do the bare minimal and it's a shame. The simulator could be awesome if it just paid more attention to the sounds.
     
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  35. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It seems they like doing the bear minimum with sounds unless it's a German Train
     
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  36. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what DTG would say about this
     
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  37. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    But I really hope that they'll repair the Br146.2 sound because this is my favourite loco and in TSW2020 It was always fun to ride it, but because of the wired sound it isn't fun anymore Please DTG repair the sound, you did the sound so well in TSW2020 so it wouldn't be to hard to repair it in TSW2
     
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  38. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They will eventually. The M7 is the first in line though
     
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  39. james#6343

    james#6343 Member

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    Question for the OP:

    Are you willing to pay these people that you’re asking to be hired?

    I see I’m quickly becoming the person on the forums who constantly needs to remind others that DTG isn’t a big company. They don’t have the money that other developers like RockStar Games and EA have. I’m sure they would love to hire each and every person who applies, and have a huge team to make patches and new content on a weekly basis. But the fact of the matter is hiring people costs money, and DTG doesn’t have a whole bunch of that to throw around.

    They have already agreed on multiple occasions that sounds are absolutely one of the biggest issues plaguing TSW2, and if you actually took the time to read the roadmaps and watch the streams you’d see that slowly but surely they ARE addressing them. But it isn’t as simple as a lot of you people think. A lot of the sounds need to be re-recorded and in order to do that, they need to contact the specific railway company and plan it out. Then they need to pay to send a crew with a bunch of equipment and all of this, again, costs money. Not to mention it’s a lot harder to do anything in person with the pandemic.

    I’m so tired of reading negative reviews on products on the steam store with people complaining about the sound, and giving the game or its respective DLCs a “mixed” or “negative” description.

    to put into perspective, whenever there’s a glitch or a bug in GTA V, there’s a million people making YouTube videos showing it and how to do it and how it’s so funny. But god forbid, a small company doesn’t get ONE thing right, they’re the bad guys and they “don’t care about the consumer.”

    Honestly that’s the most frustrating part, when people say that “they don’t care” and that “they just care about money”

    yeah. They’re a company. Obviously they care about money. But if they didn’t care about the consumer, they wouldn’t be doing these live streams multiple times a week, looking for feedback and addressing certain issues. They wouldn’t be coming out with patches AT ALL.

    Honestly stop whining. If there’s an issue, bring it up on the forums in a proper fashion. Or bring it up in a live stream. But every time you write a negative review, you dissuade other people from buying what would otherwise be a great game or a what could have been their FAVOURITE route or loco add on. This in turn means less money going to DTG, which means they have less money to spend on actually fixing these issues.

    I personally am working on buying every single add on for TSW2, and even the ones that have negative reviews, I still enjoy. Because I understand the background behind the company. I also want to support the company because I know that the money they get from every purchase I make, will go towards making, fixing or updating something.

    rant over.
     
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  40. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I'm not the OP but when they're charging a premium price for this content (typically £24.99 in the UK) which is nearly the price of a complete new game, then yes they should be paying more attention to the sound. As others have indicated, going back to the early days of Rail Simulator then through Railworks into TS20xx and sounds - whether traction or track/ambient - have always been their Achilles Heel, exactly why outfits like AP sprang up. Good sounds could make or break the decision to buy a particular product. I actually refunded Tees Valley when it initially came out as the Class 37 sounds were, frankly, appalling. When they fixed them (and fair do's, they did) I bought it again albeit at sale rather than full price.

    Obviously at present, Covid inhibits getting out and about with the recording equipment and that is accepted but they should be doing better.
     
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  41. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    Aren't AP sound packs £15-20 now? DTG put out the full loco for £11.99, or Route + Stock for £24.99. Might be why AP stuff is 'better' because you are paying a hefty premium for it.
     
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  42. Mr heff

    Mr heff Well-Known Member

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    If more engineers means better quality then yes, obviously.
     
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  43. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Active Member

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    *Very* well said. I'm not DTG, and even I get fed up with the continual barrage of negative criticism they face on these forums - it speaks to their professionalism that they take it on the chin here week after week without dishing out the snark, as they must sometimes be sorely tempted to do. IMO, some of the criticism of them is legitimate, but a lot of isn't and, when called on it, the 'constructive criticism' shield quickly gets brought out as it this was somehow a valid defence giving everyone the right to DTG-bash at will.

    I sometimes play a game with myself - when I see a new relatively positive thread popping up, watching to see how soon the first sour comment is dumped, and seeing if I can predict who it will be. Not always right, of course, but right more often than not. Does this game have flaws? Of course. But it also has some amazing things, like driving the Northern Trans-Pennines at sunset, the sounds as I cross the pier at Ryde, spotting the Trainbow flashing past, and finding dozens of little easter eggs hidden away all over the landscape.

    Will this mini-rant change anything? Nope, but I'm glad someone raised the issue. Overall, I think they do an incredibly good job of providing us entertainment - and in a pandemic too, so if I was the type of person that wore a hat on a regular basis it would be off to all of them.
     
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  44. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I really don't think the price for a complete route plus stock ($29.99) is too much, not for 6 months of development work. However, I agree that the overall quality of sounds in the game is sorely lacking at any price. The initial sounds for SEHS were just awful and discouraged me from buying it. In general, the lack of realistic track sounds across all the routes is counter immersive. I've said this before, trains on steel tracks are noisy, irrespective of the type of traction and we're not getting that clang and clatter. As you say, it's been a problem since forever and nothing we say on the forum seems to change it. DTG have said that raising prices will not affect quality, so I don't know where we can go from here.
     
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  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    AMEN! Preach it, brother!
     
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  46. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ok so putting a negative review is not a bad thing on the steam page. Even GTA 5 has it's criticisms. Criticism is part of life mate. The negative review could be a fair point. A majority of players aren't even on the fourm so it just could be a casual player who may not be happy with the product and will write a negative review about it so in turn dtg can look at what they did good and what they could improve on. If there weren't people making critisms or as you call it "negative" reviews on the pre release stream on sehs or in general, dtg wouldn't have made any changes. Sometimes some negativity that people put isn't constructive but alot of it is so it can help dtg improve. Also yes negative reviews do sway customers but dtg do have some blame for that. I remember seeing negative reviews for HRR because of how short it is and how quickly a service can be done. That is true and that probably led people to not buy it and it's also not a popular german route by many players. Who's fault is that? Yes i am fully aware that dtg are a small company but some negative reviews do have fair points and could have been prevented by dtg like lirr. It got some negative reviews when it came to tsw2 because of the audio issues on the m7 and the bugs on the m3. Apparently the audio issues on the m7 had something to do with the air conditioning sounds. The issues were clearly there and had they took their time to fix the issues instead of releasing it as is and addressing them 6 months later, would it got new negative reviews, probably not. Should they be paying more attention to the sound, yes especially when at $30 a route I could buy a brand new game. This game has been out for 4 years and they haven't been consistent with the quality of sound on certain trains. Look negative reviews aren't a bad thing as long as it's constructive and if you don't like seeing them then I don't know what to tell you
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be a lot of variation in what people consider "constructive" criticism. To some, "This game sucks! I want a refund! The door switch is the wrong shade of green!" is constructive. (Also "DTG don't care" and "DTG are ripoff artists")

    Pointing out what could be improved, with specifics, is constructive. Bitching and moaning over every little thing that falls short of some unattainable Platonic ideal is not.
     
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  48. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say they need to hire anyone new. They've proved that when they take their time, they can produce great quality audio.

    If we go back to when the preseved collection was first being transferred over, the initial releases came out quickly and were disappointing. Feedback was provided and on one of the earliest roadmap streams, Adam said it's clear how important audio is, and they were really focusing on it heavily for GWE and NTP.

    GWE and NTP took longer to come over. When released, the audio was exactly as it should be. All of this improvement came from using the exact same sounds, but by really balancing them well.

    HMA came round and again, audio was great. The ICE3 continued to sound good and the DB BR 423 is one of the best sounding trains in the game for me.

    SHS appears to have been rushed towards the end. One week before release and audio wasn't ready. On release, it was poor. After the patch, it's pretty decent and the next update should fix a couple of snags with it. The upcoming 465 also seems to sound incredible.

    It sounds as if Adam and the team are really focusing hard on audio for LIRR, fixing it, taking it to the BETA team, making more changes if needed, then releasing when it's done properly. I am looking forward to the update.

    DTG can do great quality audio, IF they don't rush it and really focus on it. I really hope future releases take this into account and they continue to release more great DLC, with great quality sounds :)
     
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  49. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    But credits where it is needed: The sound of the ICE 3, the BR 423 (i guess) and the BR 425 was done by Maik Goltz , who is a german thrid party dev. Or in that specific case he was a 2nd party dev, i think.
     
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  50. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely! :)

    From a post Matt made on Facebook, it looks like DTG sometimes use external sources for the audio, but still mix them at DTG. This was in response to a question around the 465, whereby it was confirmed that Armstrong Powerhouse provided the sounds, but they were still implemented and mixed by the team at DTG.

    In most cases where the audio is poor, it seems that they have good quality sounds to work with, but mixed them poorly. Re-mixing was all that was needed to get them sounding great.
     
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