@dtg, Will The Lighting Issues Finally Be Fixed In Tsw3 ?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by tsw2, Aug 6, 2022.

  1. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    will the terrible lighting issues finally be fixed in TSW3 ?
    We we finally have a less nuclear sun and less "black hole" like shadows?
    Will driving through stations in cities at night still feel like driving through a small village without electricity?
    Will the sun light finally stop shining through solid objects like the back of the cab?
    Will the time of day be finally fixed? (Spoiler: In the summer sunrise is around 5:30 AM in europe and sundown is at 21:30 PM)

    Sorry but such lighting issues should not exist in a 2022/2023 game.

    DTG Alex
    Any comment besides "we are looking into it"?
    I mean, something of substance? I know you can only say stuff and confirm stuff you are allowed to say and confirm about the upcoming TSW3 release. But maybe you could point us in a direction? Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
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  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    This is probably my biggest single hope for TSW3. It’s really off putting trying to convince yourself it’s a bright crisp midwinter noon when everything is shrouded in tar like black shadow. And don’t get me started on the pitch black nights, lack of ambient lighting in towns and cities. All DTG need to do is actually run some of their TSC routes or ETS2 etc to see how lighting should be done.
     
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  3. owenroser19

    owenroser19 Active Member

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    I’m so glad it’s not just me that thinks this. Doing morning and evening depot moves is so horrible. I’m sure DTG have said in the past they believe that it’s accurate.
     
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  4. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Accurate?
    Maybe if you live on Mars or sometrhing. Definitely not lighting that happens on planet earth.
    But maybe the goal was to have the worst lighting in a PC game?

    I actually stopped playing TSW2 because the lighting kills any kind of immersion instantly.
    I mean, even ancient graphics like in Zusi or TSC have much MUCH better lighting then TSW2.

    The only lighting thats not terrible is 12 o clock with clouds.
    Morning and Afternoon look atrocious (nuclear sun and tar black shadows everywhere).
    Night is just a joke.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
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  5. heliq

    heliq Member

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    Same, need new light system!
     
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  6. gogglesguy

    gogglesguy Active Member

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    > will the terrible lighting issues finally be fixed in TSW3

    No
     
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  7. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They been saying "we are looking to it" for 5 years now. I wouldn't be surprised if nothing changes. But hey at least modders have more competence than DTG's lighting team it seems
     
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  8. pugilist3

    pugilist3 Member

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    As others have said, the night lighting and sunsets are terrible and the main reason I do not play TSW2 often.

    Come on DTG at least get the headlight flares right on US locomotives!
     
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  9. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Seems like lots of people stopped playing because of the terrible and atrocious lighting in TSW2...
     
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  10. owenroser19

    owenroser19 Active Member

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    It’s not the lighting team at fault. They just probably aren’t given any time to try and fix it
     
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  11. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Just tried a afternoon run.
    Everything was tar black.
    I quit the run and closed TSW2
     
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  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It is awful.

    As mentioned in another thread adding the Skylight intensity setting to the engine ini has helped a bit, but it shouldn't be necessary for users to have to experiment in the UE source to find these unused settings and other users then having to find by chance on the forum. DTG should be competent enough with UE by now to open up a comprehensive set of graphics tweaks available from the in game UI.

    I just have to hope TSW3 addresses the lighting issues off the bat otherwise I may well be resisting the inevitable hype to buy/upgrade on Day 1.
     
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  13. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I would also like to see lighting as a priority for improvement in TSW 3 or whatever they are going to announce tomorrow.

    One thing that bothers a lot in addition to everything else that has been said in the thread is that with 100% cloud and snowfall there are shadows as if it was clear. It's something that ruins the experience for me:
    3544e12b-53ea-4ebf-8c77-9ce62abba0f0.jpeg 83b98030-5053-469b-8f02-d42065b31e1b.jpeg
     
  14. DTG Alex

    DTG Alex Community Manager Staff Member

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    We have released a planned announcement time - hold tight and wait for more news to follow.
     
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  15. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Ooh, " the plot thickens" , or," the game's afoot. "
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
  16. owenroser19

    owenroser19 Active Member

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    I also love how the trees are just covered in a white texture when you select snow. It doesn’t even get rid of the leaves
     
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  17. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    So much for the Skylight intensity modifier. This is DCZ at 1200 on a September day.

    DTG - Do you think this is an acceptable daytime lighting effect?

    Off to play some TSC instead.


    DarkAsHell.jpg
     
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  18. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Mate I think you've done something with all your modifications. I have few lighting/colour modifications (mostly draw distance enhancements) and this is what DCZ looks like for me under the same conditions:

    TSW2_Callum_1659956777_00.png

    My "skylight intensity" is also 1.

    Cheers
     
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  19. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    I hope you did not end up in the wrong thread... :D
    Lighting fix in TSW3?
     
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  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The only additions to the ini are this and the one that stops the distant trees from shimmering. Open to any suggestions.
     
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  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, if the tease currently running on YouTube is any indication, TSW3 will have a completely revamped lighting system
     
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  22. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes I think make do and mend now the order of the day...
     
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  23. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I dont buy this for a second. It shouldn't take a long time for them to do if a modder can do it with less resources. It's their code so they could change it anytime they wish
     
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Staff developers work on what they are told to work on.
     
  25. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The lighting and headlight issues have clearly not been given the priority they should have. Or else the skill- set is lacking.
     
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  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Odd considering DTG have said multiple times that they want to improve lighting. They must've lied then if they wouldn't let their team change a few numbers
     
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  27. Oystein

    Oystein Active Member

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    Doesn't really look like that. The sky looks bright, even if it has clouds, but the ground is dark.

    firefox_6ddtOBXJ7D.jpg
     
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, yes, TSW3 really does have a completely revamped lighting system
     
  29. gogglesguy

    gogglesguy Active Member

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    True, but only for the new and updated routes + SOS. I'm cautiously optimistic but I'll reserve judgement until I see more
     
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  30. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Answer: no
    Next question?
     
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  31. deathbyteacup

    deathbyteacup Member

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    Actually the answer is yes.

    The new lighting system looks great to me.
     
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  32. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    a polished up video to show off the game is a little different to actually playing the content.
     
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  33. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I’ve asked JD directly now 3 times if the ‘new’ lighting includes realistic draw distance and have had nothing in return. Looking back at the stream distant scenery has zero shadowing.

    I really hope I’m wrong, but the only conclusion to be drawn is that the draw distance hasn’t changed at all, in which case the new lighting is a busted flush that doesn’t fix the most fundamental problem. If the lighting still only draws 30-50% of the available distance in front of the player and after that everything else is nuclear flash level brightness (as has always been the case) then absolutely nothing at all has changed.

    I hope he’ll be along soon to tell me I’ve got it completely wrong and this has actually been fixed once and for all, but if it has why not just say so?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
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  34. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    The promotional screenshots look promising but I would not trust them 100%.

    [​IMG]
    A lot of the shrubbery cast shadows but the road overpass in the distance does not. The terrain seems to be properly shaded though.

    [​IMG]
    Trees look more properly shaded near the back of the train but look blown out on the upper left.

    [​IMG]
    The mountains way in the back look properly shaded.

    [​IMG]

    It looks like the shadow cast by the platform overhead reaches along the entirety of the platform but it's hard to say if it cuts off early.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
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  35. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly no lighting fix for the TSW2 routes.
     
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  36. robsonvixgv

    robsonvixgv New Member

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    Lighting fix in TSW3?

    It's ALL I want!!!
     
  37. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I would say that I’m pretty certain they haven’t fixed it, and have therefore completely missed the point of what all the complaints have been for over the years.

    I’ve got 3 screens from the stream on my phone that prove it but they're supposedly too large for the forum to accept.

    If you look at the stream video the snow shot at 19:37, on the hill on the distant left there are no shadows. The next shot at 19:39 shows that the trees and scenery on the hill have no shadows. Finally, if you look at the shot on TV screen 20:36 you can see that about halfway into the distance in front of the train the shadows stop and the trees and track are simply white, just as they are now.

    Yes the new lighting is an improvement, but without the draw distance it’s just not good enough and I’m afraid for that reason TSW3 is likely a hard no for me. I won’t spend another penny on this game until that issue is fixed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  38. robsonvixgv

    robsonvixgv New Member

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    Hey DTG!!
    I'm still waiting for lightining fix!!
    [​IMG]
     
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  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    That second shot still has evidence of the black tar over everything even in bright daylight. So not convinced here.
     
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  40. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Lighting will never be fixed given the medium.
    All we can argue over is what is acceptable.
    De gustibus etc..
     
  41. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Sorry, had a lot of people to try to respond to yesterday, and wanted to make sure I had the right information.

    The draw distance isn't planned to be changed - the work to rebuild the lighting has focused on ensuring the luminosity values are correct ('Physically-based Lighting'), with improvements to shadows, iris adaptation, and dealing with the contrast between lighting in the cab vs. outside.

    I know I say this a lot, but there's a few weeks until release, with a lot of things to show, so it's worth making a judgement when you've been able to see it in action in previews. It's worth noting that development is still in progress too.
     
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  42. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    It has always been a problem in Train Sim World that it's just too dark. Even in daytime, whatever is not directly lit by the Sun it's just completely dark. If you drive with the Sun in front of you, most of the scenery is universally dark, even pitch black sometimes.

    The HDR effect is welcome (your vision gets brighter in tunnels and darker in the sunlight), but it has to be implemented properly. In the developer interview, just at the 21:37 mark there is this scene where the camera comes out of the tunnel, but then it just goes too dark. It's not how sunshine should look like, eyes adapting or not. I do hope we get a brighter, generally better lit game. Indirect lighting is also extremely important. Objects in shadow shouldn't be completely dark, that's rarely how our eyes work, we can make out details in the shade as well.

    Some of the comparison scenes with TSW2 are promising but we'll have to see whether the new game will generally be brighter and more evenly lit. Fingers crossed!
     
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  43. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for replying, I do appreciate it. As you say, ultimately the proof will be actually seeing it in action but I struggle to see how different lighting with the same shadow draw distance is going to improve things much. If the ‘detail’ stops 1/3 to 1/2 of the way to the horizon (as it always has) then no matter how good the detailed bit actually is, being able to see where the shadows stop will continue to a) wreck immersion and b) wreck the game. For example, are tunnels still going to be light at the vanishing point because outside there are no shadows, then get dark as you get towards the bit where the detail fills in? It’s just rubbish.

    Many of us have been banging on about this ever since GWE was first released and whilst I’m really pleased to see the lighting has been overhauled, with the draw distance remaining as it was it’s a bit like being told you’ve won the EuroMillions but for this week only the prize is a pot of smashed crabs.

    Matt always said distant shadows hurt performance but this game has been out over 5 years and we’re on the verge of 40 series GPU’s and already have 9th gen consoles. Give us, the user, the power to decide where we want the trade off to be in terms of detail vs performance by way of a slider. Make the default position what we have now, and unlock the option to give us the choice. I can’t see any argument for keeping it locked down like this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  44. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Also note the small disclaimer at the start of the trailer under the epilepsy warning:

    "Not representative of real gameplay footage"

    I would wait for the preview streams and see for yourself.
     
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  45. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    I’ve just nabbed this from London Midlands SEHS thread.

    If this is a total lighting overhaul then I’m lost for words. That is as bad as it has ever been.

    8EBACD43-BE57-4639-86C6-02C08BFEA803.jpeg
     
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  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    What's wrong with it?
     
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  47. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    You’re not serious? Everything is way too bright and over saturated. It is not naturally lit and there are no shadows cast by anything. Look at the colour of the 395 & the 2 66’s in the distance. The 66 in the foreground looks about right for the scene, everything else looks like our friendly thermo-nuke has gone off just out of sight of the camera. The locos and wagons just don’t fit in with the scenery around them. Look at the trees closest to the track, then look at the locos next to them. The trees are dark, the locos are blinding…It is just all so wrong. I’m sorry but it is utter rubbish.

    You can also see conclusive proof that the shadow draw distance (and by extension the correct lighting) of the image has not changed one bit. Look at the trees in the distance on the right of the image compared to the ones closer to the track. You can literally see where the change takes place.

    I was watching a couple of TSC vids on YouTube earlier today for the first time in literally forever and there is no question that the lighting in that DX9 game is in a different league to TSW.

    The only possible defence is that this is a screen shot taken of that particular yard with the old lighting system in use. So it’s one of two things;

    a) The new lighting is a pig with lipstick or,
    b) They need to be more careful with picking their promotional screenshots.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  48. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    You can still see the dark sticky tar over the scenery and terrain, too.
     
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  49. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    The sun is directly behind the camera. so the shadows are hidden by the shadow-casting bodies (look behind the 66 in the foreground).

    Cheers
     
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  50. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Wherever the sun is, you would expect one side of the open wagons to be casting shadows on the opposite interior wall. By the same token, if the sun was behind the camera than EVERYTHING in the scene would be lit the same, but it very clearly isn’t. The trees, tracks, buildings etc would all have the sun shining on them and be casting shadows away from the camera.

    This is no lighting upgrade, it’s a sham.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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