Dutch Route Suggestion: Den Haag Cs - Rotterdam Cs - Breda, Featuring Hsl Zuid

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jolojonasgames, May 11, 2021.

?
  1. Yes

    52 vote(s)
    92.9%
  2. Maybe, it it's on sale

    1 vote(s)
    1.8%
  3. No

    3 vote(s)
    5.4%
  1. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,366
    Hi all, lately I've been focussing mainly on German suggestions (I'm really liking the '90s routes), as I lacked a good Dutch route that hadn't already been suggested. However, I think I found one :). This route could be a great standalone route, but would be best with layering from other Dutch routes, as there are quite a few services on the route, all operated by different trains.

    Contents
    • Route
      • General description
      • Cab views
      • Services
    • Rolling Stock
      • What comes with the route?
        • NS E186
        • NS SLT
      • DLC
        • NS FLIRT
        • NS VIRM(m)
        • NS ICMm
        • NS SGMm
        • NS ICNG?
    • Final Words
    • Pictures
    [​IMG]

    Route

    [​IMG]

    General description


    This 90 km (including the HSL section) route runs from the southern flank of the Dutch 'Randstad', to the city of Breda. It is one of the busiest sections of railway in the Netherlands, although sections of it are just two tracked (between Delft and Schiedam Centrum), which leads to true 'Rush Hour' operations. In the north, the line starts at Den Haag CS, an important terminus station. It then curves south, and runs through Den Haag HS, which serves through services that don't terminate at Den Haag CS, aswell as trains coming from Den Haag CS. Going further south, the line goes from 4 tracks to 2 just before entering the tunnel at Delft. The tunnel in Delft has 4 shafts, but only 2 are currently in use. After Delft we continue to Rotterdam CS, a recently renovated station that serves the 2nd biggest Dutch city. We then dive into the Willemsspoortunnel, crossing beneath some of Europe's most important waterways that lead to the port of Rotterdam. After Barendrecht, the HSL zuid (High speed line south) with a max speed of 300 km/h (although none of the included services reach this) splits off, going around the city of Dordrecht, while the classic lines run by the large Kijfhoek freight yard and through Dordrecht. At the Bridges over the 'Hollandsch Diep' the HSL and classic lines meet up again. At the southern end of the route domestic trains go from the HSL back onto the classic tracks into Breda.

    The line features many bridges and tunnels, with the bridges across the 'Hollandsch Diep' being 2000m long. Between Delft and Schiedam the line runs through beautiful and typically Dutch polder landscape. When going onto or coming of the HSL there are also power and signalling changeovers. The classic network features ATBeg and 1500V DC wires, while the HSL features 25kV AC wires and ETCS. These power changeovers make for interesting and challenging gameplay.

    Cab views


    An all stops service from Den Haag CS to Dordrecht.


    From 39.00 to 1.08.00 this Cab view runs along this route.

    Services
    Here, I'll list the important services on this line. The IC Direct services use the HSL, all others use the classic lines. Dutch services are names 'Series', followed by a number (Serie xxxx). For now I've excluded the services that only run at night. As you can see, there are quite a few services on this route :).

    Serie 1100 (IC Direct)
    Den Haag Centraal – Den Haag HS – Delft – Rotterdam Centraal – Breda –
    (onwards to Tilburg)
    Every 30 min.
    Rolling stock: NS E186 with ICR coaches

    Serie 900 (IC Direct)
    (from Schiphol Airport) – Rotterdam Centraal – Breda
    Every 30 min.
    Rolling stock: NS E186 with ICR coaches

    Serie 9200 (IC Direct)
    (from Schiphol Airport) – Rotterdam Centraal – Breda – (onwards to Antwerpen-Centraal)
    Every 60 min.
    Rolling stock: NS E186 with ICR coaches

    Serie 9600 (IC Direct)
    Den Haag HS – Rotterdam Centraal – Breda –
    (onwards to Antwerpen-Centraal)
    4 times per day
    Rolling stock: NS E186 with ICR coaches

    Serie 2200 (Intercity)
    (from Leiden Centraal) – Den Haag HS – Delft – Schiedam Centrum – Rotterdam Centraal – Dordrecht – (onwards to Roosendaal)
    Every 30 min.
    Rolling stock: ICMm, VIRM(m)

    Serie 2400 (Intercity)
    (from Leiden Centraal) – Den Haag HS – Delft – Schiedam Centrum – Rotterdam Centraal – Dordrecht
    Every 30 min.
    Rolling stock: ICMm, VIRM(m)

    Serie 1900 (Intercity)
    Dordrecht – Breda –
    (onwards to Tilburg)
    4 times per day
    Rolling stock: ICMm, VIRM(m)

    Serie 5000 (Sprinter)
    Den Haag Centraal – Den Haag HS – Den Haag Moerwijk – Rijswijk – Delft – Delft Campus – Schiedam Centrum – Rotterdam Centraal – Rotterdam Blaak – Rotterdam Zuid – Rotterdam Lombardijen – Barendrecht – Zwijndrecht – Dordrecht

    Every 30 min. (stops running after 20.00)
    Rolling stock: SLT, SGMm

    Serie 5100 (Sprinter)
    Den Haag Centraal – Den Haag HS – Den Haag Moerwijk – Rijswijk – Delft – Delft Campus – Schiedam Centrum – Rotterdam Centraal – Rotterdam Blaak – Rotterdam Zuid – Rotterdam Lombardijen – Barendrecht – Zwijndrecht – Dordrecht

    Every 30 min.
    Rolling stock: SLT, SGMm

    Serie 6600 (Sprinter)
    Dordrecht – Dordrecht Zuid – Lage Zwaluwe – Breda Prinsenbeek – Breda –
    (onwards to Tilburg)
    Every 30 min.
    Rolling stock: FLIRT

    Serie 5900 (Sprinter)
    Dordrecht – Dordrecht Zuid – Lage Zwaluwe –
    (onwards to Roosendaal)
    Every 30 min.
    Rolling stock: FLIRT

    [​IMG]
    This map should help get a further image of the amount of services and their stops.

    Rolling Stock
    What should come with the route?

    As always, a route should come with two (maybe three) trains. It was a difficult choice for this route, as getting a full timetable in requires at least 4 trains. I really hope that the ICMm or VIRMm are already in game when this route gets added, so they can be layers.

    NS E186
    [​IMG]


    The E186's are leased by NS for their IC Direct services on the HSL to the south of the Netherlands and Belgium. They are capable of running under 1500 and 3000 V DC, and 25kV AC and have a max speed of 160 km/h. They haul ICR coaches (pictured below) in sandwich formations. The E186's can also be seen in AlphaTrains and Macquirie (now owned by Akiem) liveries. In these liveries they haul IC Direct trains, but also frieght, from the large yard at Kijfhoek. As is probably obvious, they are a member of the TRAXX family, and have similarities to those already in game, though the signalling equipment is totally different. More info on wikipedia.

    [​IMG]
    An ICR coach, which is hauled by the E186's on IC Direct services.

    NS SLT
    [​IMG]

    The SLT (Sprinter LightTrain) was meant to replace the unsuccesful SM '90 and aging Mat '64 trainsets on stopping services. It is based on the German BR 425, and was jointly developed with the BR 422. The trains are well suited for the stopping services in the 'Randstad', due to their good acceleration and braking, and the many doors. The trains were heavily criticised for their lack of toilets and bad passenger comfort. This lead to no further orders being placed for the train and toilets being retrofitted. The NS instead chose the Stadler FLIRT and SNG from CAF to become the next evolution of Sprinter. The SLT will operate the Sprinter services between Den Haag and Dordrecht. More info on wikipedia.

    DLC
    NS FLIRT
    [​IMG]

    Due to the immediate need to replace aging trains and an increase in passenger numbers while the SNG sets were not yet delivered, the NS ordered 58 FLIRTs from Stadler. These trainsets serve mainly the southern regions of the Netherlands, and would provide this route with Sprinter services on the Dordrecht - Breda section of the route. This FLIRT could serve as the basis for other future FLIRTs, as many European operators (among which DB) also use trains of this type. More info on wikipedia.

    VIRM
    [​IMG]

    The VIRM(m) (Verlengd InterRegioMaterieel) double deck EMU operates many IC services on this route. They were built by Talbot between 1994 and 1996, they were lengthened to 4 or 6 car sets in 2000. Like the ICMm 'Koploper', they are an important and easily recognisable element of the Dutch Intercity network. There is also a modernized version of them, which is soon to be the only one left as the last of the old sets are gradually being modernized. This modernized version is denoted by the lower case 'm' after the VIRM stock name. This EMU will provide the route with much needed classic IC services, and I hope it therefore comes as DLC not long after release. This train could also be layerd in from other Dutch route suggestions. More info on wikipedia.

    ICMm
    [​IMG]

    The ICMm is a modernised version of the ICM (InterCityMaterieel), nicknamed "koploper". The trains are made up of 3 or 4 cars (it would be nice to have both in game, otherwise I'd prefer 4 car sets) and can be seen troughout the Netherlands on Intercity services. They are the workhorse of the Dutch Railways (NS). They were built from 1983 to 1994 by talbot, and modernised from 2006 to 2011. On this route, like the VIRM they would provide much needed IC services. This train could also be layerd in from other Dutch route suggestions. More info on wikipedia.

    SGMm
    [​IMG]

    The SGMm is a modernised version of the SGM (StadsGewestelijk Materieel). They were built between 1975 and 1983 by talbot, and later modernised for 'Sprinter' services. They consist of 2 or 3 cars. What makes them interesting, is their controls, the driver pushes buttons to select the desired speed, and the train will keep that speed. If the driver selects a different speed the train will brake/accelerate accordingly. If the driver brakes, the train deselects speeds, and the driver has to push a button again if he want to speed up. An auxilliary control lever is also available, it functions as a kind of mode selector in which you're able to select: Off, Automatic, Series and Parallel. In Automatic, the driver is able to use the speed select buttons, with Parallel and Series being manual input modes (Parallel mode is disabled on the 2-car consits, as it uses too much power). The brake lever is actually a combination handle in a way. It's notched with brake settings reaching from 1 to 7 + emergency brakes. To drive you need to push the lever one step further forward than free/coasting. So what what you'd do is, you'd put the selector in the mode you wish to drive in, and push the brake lever into drive position to go. There's a little turning knob on the left frontside of the middle table which is basically to regulate how much traction you wish to use currently. The system somewhat like AFB throttle settings on the BR 143, but with buttons. For a long time they made up practically all of the Sprinter services, but they are getting retired and replaced by newer stock (but not yet on this route, so yay for the SGM fans). This train would operate the same services as the SLT, but due to it's age and unique control and sounds would provide interesting variation. This train could also be layerd in from other Dutch route suggestions. More info on wikipedia.

    NS ICNG?
    [​IMG]


    The ICNG sets currently in testing are intended to replace the loco hauled IC Direct services at the end of this year. They have been designed to better cope with the power changeover when coming off or going onto the HSL. As DTG probably won't make this route this year (if ever) the ICNG would probably be a DLC option by the time the route is released. The ICNG is being built by Alstom, and is currently only operating services for driver training and testing purposes. Besides easing the power changeover the ICNG also increases the top speed on IC Direct services to 200 km/h. More info on wikipedia.

    Final Words
    Den Haag - Breda is a very varied route, with an immense amount of services. It provides both 4 and 2 track running, high speed sections and classic lines with some interesting scenery and important and famous cities along the way. It could be a very good introduction to Dutch routes, but would probably be best as the 2nd or 3rd Dutch route that comes to game, as it doesn't include the most Iconic rolling stock from the get go, and could benefit massively from layers. I'd like to hear your thoughts about the route and rolling stock :).

    Pictures
    [​IMG]

    The two 2000m bridges across the 'Hollandsch Diep'. In the foreground the modern one that forms part of the HSL, in the background the older one.

    [​IMG]
    Rotterdam CS, one of the largest stations on the route.

    [​IMG]
    An ICMm, SLT and E186 at Breda.

    [​IMG]
    The inside of the new Delft station.

    [​IMG]
    A VIRM at the beautiful Den Haag HS.

    [​IMG]
    An ICMm, SGMm and VIRM in Den Haag CS, as a tram crosses through the station.

    [​IMG]
    Dordrecht station.

    [​IMG]
    An ICMm coming of the bridge across the 'Hollandsch Diep', with the HSL bridge in the background.

    [​IMG]
    A FLIRT at Breda.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
    • Like Like x 25
  2. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    688
    I think this would be a great idea!

    I mean, I'll admit it's not my favorite Dutch suggestion, but I think this one might be the most practical one.
    NS E186 & NS SLT are probably the easiest ones for DTG to model right and require the least amount of work to be put into them.
    In my personal opinion, I'd prefer NS ICM & NS V-IRM, but at this point, beggar's can't be choosers when it comes to Dutch content.

    It's also perfect in length in that it's doable, while still having a lot to offer in every other way, especially if they take your suggestion of including both the HSL part as well as the general section through Dordrecht. It's super busy too, meaning you're going to have plenty to do as well.

    Something I would like to touch and expand on a little bit though is this part:
    Actually, this doesn't really explain it as a whole I think.
    First of all, the brake lever is actually a combination handle in a way. It's notched with brake settings reaching from 1 to 7 + emergency brakes. To drive you need to push the lever one step further forward than free/coasting.
    Secondly, the lever that would otherwise be used as throttle is more of a mode selector in which you're able to select: Off, Automatic, Series and Parallel.
    Automatic is what you described in your post, but Parallel and Series mode are both manual.
    So what what you'd do is, you'd put the selector in the mode you wish to drive in, and push the brake lever into drive position to go.
    You may have noticed there's a little turning knob on the left frontside of the middle table which is basically to regulate how much traction you wish to use currently.

    Sidenote though, parallel mode was disabled on a lot of 2 wagon consists because it used up more energy and it wasn't used that often anyway.

    I just wanted to address that part about NS SGM :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,366
    Personally I'd also prefer a route with the ICM and VIRM, with this being a later addition. The route is really fun in it's own right, but could really use the VIRM and ICMm as layers, to add that iconic NS look to it. Therefore it would be best if any of the many other Dutch suggestions that include the ICMm and/or VIRM comes first. With those layers the route really comes into it's element, offering great amounts of variety in rolling stock, services and scenery.

    Thanks for that information! I'll add it to the post :).
     
  4. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,087
    Likes Received:
    5,608
    Excellent Idea and for the E186 it's actually a Quadvolatge Locomotive 1.5kv & 3kv DC 15kv 16.7hz & 25kv 50hz which meant people that own this route can use NS E186 on German routes since it also has 15kv 16.7hz capability with PZB/LZB & Sifa.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,366
    The problem is that the E186 never runs in Germany in NS livery. However, the AlphaTrains and ex-Macquarie (now part of Akiem, which via a holding company is owned by SNCF) liveries might also be supplied (some E186's in NS service still wear those liveries), which can be seen in Germany too.

    [​IMG]
    E186 237 in Dresden (Germany). This loco belongs to Macquarie European Rail, which was recently purchased by Akiem Group.

    [​IMG]
    Another ex-Macquirie loco, now in Rotterdam.

    [​IMG]
    An AlphaTrains (previously Angel Trains Cargo) E186 in front of an Intercity Direct to Brussels.

    [​IMG]
    Another AlphaTrains E186, now (unmistakeably) in Germany.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  6. Task

    Task Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2020
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    949
    Also a very nice Dutch suggestion but you are correct, because of the missing most popular rolling stock it wouldn't be the best choice for the introduction to the Netherlands.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,366
    Yes, it's a good 2nd or 3rd Dutch route :).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,366


    A new cabview is available on this route. This clearly shows the work being done to extend the 4-track sections to Delft Campus.

    It also shows the Thalys. Sadly, Thalys services on this route aren't possible, as they only stop at Rotterdam, and continue on the High speed line past Breda. However, if this route was ever to be made, a (Brussels - ) Antwerp - Breda route could be made, and merged to this route. This would allow international IC services and Thalys services, as well as both Dutch and Belgian domestic services.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. TheMiekster

    TheMiekster New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    15
    I was also thinking about posting a suggestion for this route, but not in the modern time, more in the late 90's and early 2000's when the HSL didnt exist. You would have intercity services run between den haag and breda via Dordrecht using Bds cab cars + ICR + 1700, I might be a bit biased as the 1700's and Bds cab cars are my personal favorite NS trains, but they look soo cool, And for sprinter services you would use the DD-AR, both the 1700 and DD-AR are very iconic dutch trains, and not having the HSL makes the section between Rotterdam and Dordrecht much more busy, which would otherwise just die out with the HSL.
    Another benefit about not having the HSL is that you dont absolutely have to include the VIRM/ICM from the get go as the intercity den haag - breda just uses the regular route through dordrecht, VIRM/ICM would only add on to that.
    Including the HSL and leaving out the intercity's running over the regular route after rotterdam will just end up leaving a huge hole in the timetable, making the route feel incredibly dead after Rotterdam.
    The route would also include the old 'luchtspoor' through Delft and the old Delft station which are both very interesting, and if you set the time of the route back even further you could also include the 'luchtspoor' through Rotterdam including the very iconic hefbrug.
    I would absolutely love for them to include any dutch route, but this is probably one of my favorite suggestions, in both modern time and my suggestion putting it back in time. With my preference going out for it being back in time ;)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,087
    Likes Received:
    5,608
    You might need to consider that the NS1700 locomotives need a different coupler for DD-AR electric multiple units a BSI type which you can swap out for a buffers and chain if the need to run regular Intercity coaches were to happen on the timetable
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. stimp#5938

    stimp#5938 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2021
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    299
    Great presentation by the way. And yes I would love to see this happen. Again it would add to the diversity of lines and countries. We mostly see German, North American and British lines so…I’d be on it day one!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,366
    Actually, I considered setting the route even further back for a while, with the original Benelux 'hondekoppen'.

    I also realy really like the 1700 with ICR coaches and cab car. Maybe I'll do a suggestion that includes it someday in the future.

    The main issue I'm running into when suggesting older Dutch routes is that most foreigners are more interested in the modern network, but who knows, maybe one day.... :)

    In this case I also chose for the modern day because of a gameplay perspective. It has a few advantages in my opinion.
    • In the modern day you have the power changeover onto or coming from the HSL, providing players with more to do and more to manage, an interesting challenge in my opinion.
    • In the modern day the E186 can provide IC direct services, but also some freight (as the plain silver or silver with green ends liveries can be seen on freight services aswell). This would provide more variety from the get go if some freight wagons (which could be copiea of the German ones) are also included.
    • Having two different lines diverge and rejoin gives the route two different characters, for the price of one route. I really enjoy that contrast on RRO, HRR and even SKA (which isn't split into two lines, but has a high speed and classic section with very different feelings).
    • The 'high speed' aspect sells quite well, making it more likely to get attention from DTG (though I still think it wouldn't be a good introduction to Dutch routes, rather a second or third one with some layers)
    • There is the future oppertunity of the ICNG which I also find interesting, though I do secretly prefer the 1700 you mentioned ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
  13. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,366


    A very interesting cab ride for you all. This is actually not only unique because it takes us directly from Rotterdam to Breda over Drodrecht, it's also shot from a BR 01 stream engine! Enjoy :).
     
  14. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    Again a topic without a link to pre order :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,366
    [​IMG]

    As news about the ICNG, which I briefly mentioned in the original thread, continues to come in, I decided to give a short update on that front. The ICNG delivery is delayed, the first sets will probably not enter revenue service until the end of 2022, and their full deployment will take until 2024. Part of this has to do with one set crashing on transport to the Netherlands, also revealing a software problem that made it so that the engine towing the ICNG set could not properly fill it's brake reservoirs. On the other hand, like most NS projects, it just is delayed for a whole number of reasons. Testing however seems to be going satisfactory, with the first tests that include the automatic system changeover when entering and leaving the High Speed Line being conducted succesfully to my knowledge.

    ChrisTrains is also busy on working on an ICNG model for TS, so he might be interested in helping create such a model for TSW aswell, as he has significant amounts of reference materials.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. reallychummy

    reallychummy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2022
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    55
    I'd be all over this like a rash. I love the architecture of Dutch stations, both old and new and who doesn't love a Koploper?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,366
    I had the joy or riding on this line for the first time in a while this weekend, and must say I really stand by my suggestion. I don't think it is the best choice for a Dutch Route premiere, but as a second or third one it would really work. It shows off some famous cities, has varied rolling stock and services, and combines both a high speed section with a regular section, increasing variety even further.

    The ICNG I mentioned in the original post is also slowly starting service now, and I rode one of those back. I have to say they're pretty comfy (for a new train), and look really good inside and outside. It could make a really good and interesting DLC, that could also be the base for other DLC's, as the Coradia Stream platform is used in multiple countries in multiple different configurations.
     
  18. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2018
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    970
    I’d love to see a Dutch route. Especially with an ICMm. Great addition. Totally behind this.
     
  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,087
    Likes Received:
    5,608
    Do you mean the one with a cab on top? When combing two ICMs you need to open the door below the cab which is a passageway to the other set of ICMs. Separate the the dead weight you are going to get Unexpected formation
     
  20. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  21. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,087
    Likes Received:
    5,608
  22. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,727
    Likes Received:
    4,408
    The passageway connector was too prone to malfunctioning, so with the modernization of the fleet, they got rid of the system and bolted a panel to the front of the train.

    You can most easily distinguish both by looking the fronts. The ICM (right) has two narrow panel doors on the front, while the ICMm (left) has one single big panel on the front. The ICMm no longer uses its passageway.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  23. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,366
    Aditionally, if you have an angle where you can't clearly see the front panel, there's a difference in the blue line. As also seen in Purno's picture, the left ICMm (post modernisation) has the blue stripe along the windows rounded with a semicircle under the cab windows/windshield. The right ICM (pre modernisation) has a squared off blue stripe with a vertical line below the cab side windows, which also doesn't stretch as far forward as the stripe on the modernized variants.
     
  24. west coastway trains

    west coastway trains Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2023
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    648
    I went in thsi line in June and it would be nice to see it replicated in tsw
     

Share This Page