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Dutch Route Suggestion: Enschede To Amersfoort Cs With Icmm And Sgmm

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jolojonasgames, Dec 22, 2020.

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  1. Yes

    83.9%
  2. Maybe, if it's on sale

    10.8%
  3. No

    5.4%
  1. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to propose a Dutch route for TSW 2. Of course I'm biased because I am Dutch and live near the route, but I will explain what makes dutch routes interesting in my post.

    Contents:
    • The route
      • Cab rides
    • Services
    • Rolling stock
      • what comes with the route?
        • ICMm
        • SGMm
      • DLC
        • NS 1600/1700 with DD-AR coaches
        • ex-NS 6400
        • DDZ
        • SNG
        • DB Baureihe 189
        • VIRM
    • Operations
      • Dutch station layouts
      • Safety systems
      • Dutch railway signalling (and shields)
    • Conclusion
    • Pictures

    [​IMG]
    A ICMm and SGMm at Enschede.
    The route
    First of all, the route. I'm proposing Enschede-Amersfoort CS because it has Intercity, Sprinter/stoptrein (the Dutch name for regional/commuter services) and freight services along it's length. Futhermore it has some interesting operations in and around stations and a lot of diversity when it comes to rolling stock and scenery. Because the Netherlands are relatively small, nearly ever important line has nearly all rolling stock on it, with the ratios differing. And on this route there are nearly equal amounts of ICMm, SNG, SGMm, VIRM(m) and DDZ trains, and still sees/until recently saw, some older and beloved rolling stock like the SGMm and DD-AR + Serie 1700 trains. It is also one of the few routes in the Netherlands with an international Intercity connection (to Berlin, with the Serie 1700 and DB IC coaches), offering even more variety in rolling stock and services. The route doesn't go to the bigger Dutch cities (Amsterdam, Utrecht and such) but goes through scenery a lot of Dutch people will recognise. The route also has a lot of activity on it, having trains going both directions every 15 minutes (of even more), but there is more on that under the 'services' section of this post. The route is about 114 km long, which is long for TSW routes, so maybe only running it Enschede to Apeldoorn (72 km, much more realistic) will be better, but that is up to the dev team. The main reason I reccomend Amersfoort is to connect to other future Dutch routes, Enschede - Apeldoorn would still have full Sprinter services and decent Intercity services.

    [​IMG]

    I think it's best to set the route in 2019, because that's the year the Serie 1700 with DD-AR coaches still operated, but the first SNG sets could also be seen. In addition to that the DDZ wasn't temporarily taken out of service yet in 2019. This is therefore the year with the most possible loco variety. In addtion to that not much has changed since 2019, so research is still relatively easy, and 2019 still had a full timetable (2020 not due to covid).

    Cab rides

    This one starts in Amersfoort CS and goes all the way to Enschede.


    This one only goes from Deventer to Hengelo, but shows a walkthrough of the serie 1700 and DD-AR double deck coaches.


    A cabview in the other direction from Enschede to Amersfoort CS. This one is in a VIRMm, because the DDZ stock has been put aside awaiting an investigation into virbrations that have been reported by drivers. This causes the VIRM(m) to be seen way more often on this route.


    Hengelo to Amersfoort CS, in a VIRM


    Services
    I've listed the most important services as of 2020 and which trains run on them, the times at which they run can be found on Wikipedia. Services on this line are shown in Bold, services not on the line in Italic. The great thing about the services, is that with just the ICMm and SGMm, DTG can put in all services from the start, meaning that locos from later Dutch routes can substitute here more easily (as no new services have to be created for them), like the VIRM running IC services or the SNG running Sprinter services.

    Treinserie 140/240 (every 2 hours):
    (from Amsterdam Centraal) Amersfoort Centraal – Deventer – Almelo – Hengelo(onwards to Bad Bentheim)
    Rolling stock: Serie 1700 with DB intercity coaches

    Treinserie 1600 (every hour):
    (from Hilversum) Amersfoort Centraal – Apeldoorn – Deventer – Almelo - Hengelo – Enschede
    Rolling stock: DDZ, ICMm, VIRM(m)

    Treinserie 1700 (every hour):
    (from Utrecht Centraal)Amersfoort Centraal – Apeldoorn – Deventer - Almelo – Hengelo – Enschede
    Rolling stock: DDZ, ICMm, VIRM(m)

    Treinserie 7000 (every 30 minutes, every hour in weekends):
    Apeldoorn* - Apeldoorn Osseveld* - Twello* – Deventer - Deventer Colmschate - Holten - Rijssen - Wierden – Almelo - Almelo de Riet ** - Borne ** - Hengelo** – Enschede Kennispark** - Enschede**
    Rolling stock: SGMm, SNG, Serie 1700 with DD-AR coaches
    *Only drives between Apeldoorn and Deventer once an hour after 19.00
    **Only drives between Almelo and Enschede during peak traffic hours, terminates at Almelo usually.


    Treinserie 7900 (every 30 minutes):

    (from Nijverdal) - Wierden – Almelo - Almelo de Riet - Borne – Hengelo - Enschede Kennispark – Enschede
    Rolling stock: Keolis BlauwNet FLIRT 3 EMU's, substituted by SGMm or SNG

    Treinserie 17900 (every hour mon-fri):
    (from Nijverdal) - Almelo - Hengelo - Enschede.
    Rolling Stock: Keolis BlauwNet FLIRT 3 EMUs, substituted by SGMm or SNG

    Notes:
    From Amersfoort CS to Enschede Treinserie 1700 and 1600 overlap, creating an Intercity service that runs every 30 minutes.
    Treinserie 7900 and 17900 run with FLIRT 3 trainsets from Keolis under the BlauwNet brand in real life, but these wouldn't be worth it as a DLC, so I'd suggest substituting them with SGMm or SNG sets from NS to keep the route alive south of Almelo during off peak hours.
    Treinserie 17900 is basically a faster Treinserie 7900. Some of the 7900 services that terminate in Enschede change into a 17900 for their way back.

    These are not all services, and some of them (mainly treinserie 7000) have complicated schedules, but these services would provide us with a busy and active route, with a lot to look at. Furhtermore I don't have any freight service schedules, but from experience I know that these happen during off peak hours, with switching being done during the rush hours, as far as this is possible without disturbing passenger traffic.

    Rolling Stock:
    Firstly, two trains that should be included with the route.

    ICMm
    [​IMG]

    The ICMm is a modernised version of the ICM (InterCityMaterieel), nicknamed "koploper". The trains are made up of 3 or 4 cars (it would be nice to have both in game, otherwise I'd prefer 4 car sets) and can be seen troughout the Netherlands on Intercity services. They are the workhorse of the Dutch Railways (NS). They were built from 1983 to 1994 by talbot, and modernised from 2006 to 2011. More info on wikipedia.
    Check out Purno's suggestion for the ICM(m), it has some more information, pictures and videos.

    SGMm

    [​IMG]
    The SGMm is a modernised version of the SGM (StadsGewestelijk Materieel). They were built between 1975 and 1983 by talbot, and later modernised for 'Sprinter' services. They consist of 2 or 3 cars. What makes them interesting, is their controls, the driver pushes buttons to select the desired speed, and the train will keep that speed. If the driver selects a different speed the train will brake/accelerate accordingly. If the driver brakes, the train deselects speeds, and the driver has to push a button again if he want to speed up. An auxilliary control lever is also available, it functions as a kind of mode selector in which you're able to select: Off, Automatic, Series and Parallel. In Automatic, the driver is able to use the speed select buttons, with Parallel and Series being manual input modes (Parallel mode is disabled on the 2-car consits, as it uses too much power). The brake lever is actually a combination handle in a way. It's notched with brake settings reaching from 1 to 7 + emergency brakes. To drive you need to push the lever one step further forward than free/coasting. So what what you'd do is, you'd put the selector in the mode you wish to drive in, and push the brake lever into drive position to go. There's a little turning knob on the left frontside of the middle table which is basically to regulate how much traction you wish to use currently. The system somewhat like AFB throttle settings on the BR 143, but with buttons. For a long time they made up practically all of the Sprinter services, but they are getting retired and replaced by newer stock (but not yet on this route, so yay for the SGM fans). More info on wikipedia.


    DLC
    There is plenty more DLC that could be added for this route. I'd suggest making the 1600/1700 a DLC just after release, like the Class 465 on SEH. The VIRMm is tricky, because if this Dutch route sells well, and DTG would like to do another Dutch route, the VIRMm should probably come as standard with that one, meaning that it becomes a layer for this route, and not a DLC. All in all, depending on whether other Dutch routes get added, there could be a lot of layering possibilities.

    Serie 1700 (and DB intercity rolling stock or DD AR double deck coaches), and maybe the Serie 1600 for some freight
    [​IMG]
    The serie 1700 is an electric locomotive for passenger services. It was built by the french Alstom between 1990 and 1994, and based on French locomotives (which explains the similar appearance). Nowadays they only haul the international train from Amsterdam to Berlin until the border at Bad Bentheim. They haul DB intercity coaches.

    The serie 1700 also operated with 3 DD-AR (DubbelDeks Aglo-Regio materiaal) double deck coaches (as pictured below) until the end of 2019 on this route (Treinserie 7000), for this they had automatic couplings on one side, the side facing away from the coaches, this was a modular add-on, a bit like the screwlinkg/buckeye couplings on the MK1 coaches in game, so no added moddeling is required to haul IC coaches. On top of that, towards the end of the DD-AR's service life, it was also coupled with 1700s that didn't have automatic couplings, this meant that they couldn't couple to other DD-AR formations, but this was uncommon anyways. The formations were either Bvk-ABv-Bv-locomotive or ABvk-Bv-Bv-locomotive, with the latter being more common. Sometimes (mostly during rush-hours) they operated in coupled sets, though this happened only rarely. They also once drove with 4-car formations (Bvk-Bv-ABv-Bv-locomotive), these could be implemented for added variety.

    Since the DB intercity coaches will probably be added with the BR 101, I'd suggest making the 1700 and Double deck coaches a DLC, with the ability to haul DB intercity coaches being added if you have the BR 101.

    Besides all this, the 1700 is capable of hauling freight traffic, although this is more often done by the nearly identical serie 1600. The 1700 (and 1600) mainly does so to and from the systems border at Bad Bentheim on this route, nowadays mostly being operated by private companies. I'd suggest making a pack with the 1600 and 1700, as they are pretty much identical except for two or three small things like the air compressor, this would only make the pack slightly more expensive, as it doesn't require that much more work to model. The 1600 could then run freight services with german freight wagons (car, container and tank wagon transports are a common sight) already in game, as these operate in the Netherlands aswell. A new (liquid gas) tank wagon or container wagon would also be fitting. More info on wikipedia.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    ex-NS Serie 6400
    [​IMG]

    The NS Serie 6400 is a class of medium diesel locomotives. They were built by MaK for NS, and later transferred to Railion when NS Cargo got sold off. They operate both services on mainlines, usually in double traction, or on secondary lines. To make this fit it would be an option to include a few industrial lines, such as the ones to the Almelo Industrial Area, on which these locos transport a lot of Steel Coils, just like the harbour area of Aschaffenburg with the BR 204. The size is comparable to that, and it offers a lot of shunting abilities. The main transports are steel coils to and from the Van Merksteijn factory, but because the industrial area also houses a big military vehicle dump, with rail acces, there could also be military tank, IFV and/or truck transports, which I'm sure would interest a lot of players! There are operations with (contaminated) aggregate at the Nijhoff company, also on the industrial area. They can also be used for some shunting duties. Only 6461 is still painted in its original NS yellow and grey livery, most have been painted in DB traffic red. Most have been given a Dutch name. More info on wikipedia.
    [​IMG]
    6408 at the Van Merksteijn factory in 2009, operations like these are still frequent (and seemingly getting even more frequent) in 2021.
    [​IMG]
    a DB (ex-NS) 600 working with a military transport. These aren't vehicles that are being taken to the dump, but the best picture I could find.


    [​IMG]

    The Almelo indutrial area sidings that could be implemented for the NS 6400


    DDZ

    [​IMG]
    A DDZ (DubbelDekker Zonering) is a modernised DD-AR train. They come in 4 and 6-car variants. From 2011 onwards they were modernised. It is noteworthy that there is only one motorcar, wich has 3 bogies. Their large capacity makes them ideal for rush-hour traffic. They have however temporarily (hopefully) dissapeared from service due to severe vibrations being reported by drivers. They are mainly replaced by VIRMm sets, though I believe some (4+3+3) triple ICMm sets are standing in aswell, can't find any other source for it besides my own eyes though. More info on wikipedia (Dutch).

    SNG
    [​IMG]
    The SNG (Sprinter Nieuwe Generatie) is the most recent addition the the NS's fleet of Sprinter rolling stock. They were built by CAF in Spain from 2017 to 2020, in total over 206 three and four-car sets have been built. The public had a lot of influence on the design, as they were allowed to test different types of chairs and interior setups. The sets also have on-board toilets, which is now mandatory after the SLT that preceeded it, didn't have them, causing the public and staff to complain. These sets were mainly ordered to cope with additional student traffic, but have now togeter with the NS FLIRT 3 sets started to replace the older SGMm sets. On this route the SGMm sets are not yet fully replaced and a mixture of SGM and SNG sets operate the treinserie 7000 Sprinter services. More info on Wikipedia.

    DB baureihe 189
    [​IMG]
    The BR 189 is a German freight locomotive. As the NS no longer has a freight division, most freight operations are operated by DB Schenker. On this route there is a lot of freight coming from Germany towards the port of Rotterdam in the west. These trains are often pulled by the DB BR 189 because it can operate under multiple overhead systems. It was built by Siemens as a further developement of the EuroSprinter platform, with the first loco's being deliverd in 2003. When operating in the Netherlands they are usually painted white at the front. This is to increase visibility, and was done on suggestion of ProRail, the Dutch company that manages the rail infrastructure. . The 189 can for example be seen a lot around the Almelo freight yard, just besides the main station, where it is stabled overnight or picking up freigt (mainly steel coils) from local industries. More info on wikipedia (German)

    VIRM
    [​IMG]
    Lastly the VIRM(m) (Verlengd InterRegioMaterieel) double deck EMU. This train has operated both treinserie 1600 and treinserie 1700, and still does due to the DDZ sets being out of service. They come in 4 or 6 carriage sets. They were built by Talbot between 1994 and 1996, they were lengthened to 4 or 6 car sets in 2000. Like the ICMm 'Koploper', they are an important and easily recognisable element of the Dutch Intercity network. There is also a modernized version of them, which is soon to be the only one left as the last of the old sets are gradually being modernized. This modernized version is denoted by the lower case 'm' after the VIRM stock name. The ones on this route are mostly the non-modernized 6-part VIRM sets from the 4th generation, though all series and lengths can be seen. The VIRM(m) is currently standing in for the out of service DDZ sets, and is therefore way more present on the line as of 2020-2021. More info on wikipedia.

    Operations
    Here, I'll talk about interesting operating procedures, signalling and safety systems on the Dutch railway network briefly. This information also applies to other Dutch mainline routes.

    Dutch station layouts
    What makes the operations on this line interesting for people that don't necessarily like Dutch trains? Well, besides the very closely packed timetable (the Dutch railways are really filled to their maximal capacity), there is a uniqueness in the way a lot of dutch stations are layed out. Dutch stations often have only 2 platforms, but four tracks with switches in the middle. In the picture below I've tried to illustrate what makes the operations in stations so unique.

    [​IMG]

    This is a very common operation on the Dutch Railways, and could add some unique flavor to it, as it means that trains can terminate on the same platform as a through train that is currently loading passengers. This termination can be seen with the Treinserie 7000, which terminates at Almelo at the through platforms during non-peak hours, Treinserie 7900 passes it here via the operations shown above.

    Safety systems
    The route is secured by ATBeg. It works by controlling the speed, which is signalled into the cab by electric signals through the rails. The driver then has to follow this speed. A yellow signal means a max speed of 40 km/h. ATB allows you to drive at least 40 km/h and doesn't monitor lower speeds or red signals (stop). The highest speed it allows is 140 km/h. It has some shortcomings, like only allowing travel up to 140 km/h (160 km/h on some ATB+ track sections) and the fact that it lacks a system to stop trains that run red signals, meaning trains can pass a red signal at up to 40 km/h. This has lead to the developement of ATBng and the implementation of ETCS on newer routes, this route only uses ATB eg though. A main advantage is that it uses a continious signal, meaning that it allows drivers a higher speed immediatly when a signal aspect changes, meaning the driver does not have to pass a signal first like with PZB, this allows for a capacity increase. It is also easy to mark a section of track as occupied by short circuiting the tracks, this is used during accidents on the track, special connectors for this are in drivers cabs of Dutch trains. ATB shares a common ancestor with the safety system on LIRR, both are developed from the PRR pulse code in cab signalling, therfore it functions basically the same. It has some differences in codes and the speed they signify though, but the basic system in LIRR could be used and slightly altered by DTG. More info on Wikipedia

    Dutch railway signalling (and shields)
    I'll not go into depth on this subject, but the Dutch Wikipedia page covers the important signal aspects. 'Bijlage 4' from the 'Regeling Spoorverkeer' lists all possible signal aspects, shields, light signals, sound signals, hand signals, and their meaning. As it is a part of the Dutch law it's quite wordy. I'd be happy to translate either of these sources for DTG if they are required for the developement of a Dutch route :). I'd also be more then willing to turn them into more of a guide (combined with ATB) when a Dutch route comes out.

    Conclusion
    This whole suggestion is a little longer then I planned, but I'm happy with all the information I got into is. There are a lot more dutch trains (definitely those of private operators) such as the serie 1600/1800 which is basically a serie 1700 for freight service (I might add these to the suggestion at a later point). I may have made a few mistakes, and if there are other Dutch railway enthousiasts out there that can correct them, please do so. I think this route is fun for a lot of people, not just the dutch players as it is very busy, and has a lot of unique rolling stock and operations. The trains I suggested could of course also be used on other Dutch routes through the layering system, as with a lot of German rolling stock. Please do let me know what you think of this route, and what you'd like to know more about.

    Pictures
    Unfortunately, not a lot of room for pictures remains, as the limit is 20 per post.
    [​IMG]
    An ICM in the Almelo railway cutout, just after it's completion in 2009, the temporary track to the left is still visible.
    [​IMG]
    A NS1700 with an Intercity to Germany crossing the IJssel at Deventer.


    [​IMG]
    Railway Bridge across the Twentekanaal at Almelo

    [​IMG]
    The beautiful station roof at Hengelo. A few more stations (Almelo, Deventer and Amersfoort) still have their original roofs, even though the building has often been rebuilt due to the destructions after the war.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
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  2. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I like the suggestion but I fear the route is too long.
     
  3. carlingamesnl

    carlingamesnl Member

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    i think it is not to long it is only like 20 kilometres longer then the sncf tgv avignon to marseille route
     
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  4. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    That was exactly my thinking, even SEH was quite long in comparison to the old TSW2020 routes. I originally chose Amersfoort CS because it's the point the Intercity services split (one towards Schiphol, and one towards Den Haag). Though only extending the route as far as Apeldoorn also makes sense, as a lot of 'sprinters' (stopping services) terminate there. Deventer would be another option, but in my opinion would leave players wanting more.
     
  5. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I added some (more detailed) different route length options. I'm still hoping for the full length, because as calingamesnl already said, the route is not that much longer than Avignon-Marseille, and they talked about the new toolkit used for building that easier. This route however has more stations, services, switches and scenery (the part from Apeldoorn to Amersfoort might not be undoable though, it's all forested areas of the Veluwe), so I'm not getting my hopes up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  6. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I'm really hoping to see this suggestion on the roadmap soon. I don't expect it, but I hope it will at least show that there is a demand for Dutch routes, and that maybe a different route will make it.
     
  7. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Would that really offer an interesting drive? I think the forests can get boring pretty quickly.
     
  8. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Fair point, but at 140 km/h it only takes 10 minutes, and the forest scenery is nice to look at for a change in the route. Some players will like the ability to sit back and enjoy all the happy little trees for a minute, others won't. It's up to taste, but including it will offer more variety.
     
  9. danistarwars

    danistarwars Member

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    100% support this. Its time for a dutch route.
     
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  10. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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  11. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Would be nice, but I would prefer a route with some more freight opportunities. Utrecht-Arnhem would be a nice opportunity. You can have freight, stopping services, ICE and express trains.

    More in general, I love historic routes better, so why not set it in the sixties?
     
  12. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    There is some freight, on the route, including switching and a lot of traffic to and from Germany, though these are mainly during off-peak hours. In general it's a shame the Netherlands has very little local freight traffic, with most of the cargo traffic being to and from neigbouring countries, most of which over the Betuweroute (which wouldn't be interesting IMO). The ICE3M in Utrecht-Arnhem sound nice. Any Dutch route would be good, and your suggestion surely sounds like a lot of fun!
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of a dutch route although the rolling stock is meh
     
  14. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    What kind of rolling stock are you interested in?
     
  15. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I added a NS Serie 6400 to the possible DLC for the route, aswell as some pictures to give a better idea of the route. The suggestion should now be more in line with my recent suggestions.
     
  16. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent idea speaking of the development team they need to be familiar with the Dutch Train safety system the ATB because they did German LZB PZB Sifa French TVM-430 KVB Swiss Integra Signum for Gotthardbahn. If there is a downloadable routes extension to Bad Bentheim or Emmerich what might happens is this ETCS On ATB off voltage Change 1.5kv DC Netherlands and SNCF Southern France into Germany 15kv 16.7hz at those Border Stations. At the same time as that LZB PZB Sifa On. Not sure if NS Dutch Railways and Track infrastructure operator ProRail has ATB Dutch train safety system manuals online? Since they are going to be required to for players if they want actual train safety systems to be used like an actual NS train service.
     
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  17. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The wikipedia page actually has quite good information. The Dutch one is way better though. If a Dutch route ever makes it to game I'll have no problem turning the Dutch wiki into an English guide. It functions with maximum allowed speeds, that are continously transmitted to the train, and it allows a max speed of 140 km/h. It has quite a few shortcomings (such as allowing a train to run a red light at 40 km/h which has caused accidents in the past), which led to the developement of ATBng (which isn't on this route), and will be replaced by ECTS someday in the very distant future.

    ATB shares a common ancestor with the safety system on LIRR, both are developed from the PRR pulse code in cab signalling.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  18. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Definitely up for this! Would be great to have some Dutch routes :)
     
  19. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    ICMs always seemed really weird/cool to me. :D I always joked how that's the only train built ready for the Netherlands getting flooded as the driver sit so crazy high. :D
     
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  20. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Your class 753s/750s seem well equiped for a dive aswell ;).
     
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  21. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Then I guess you know the German nickname they have been given :D Taucherbrille
     
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  22. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I most definetly have, and I think it is a very fitting nickname. I really like unique looking locos like the Czech 753s/750s, Norwegian EL16 or Dutch ICMm.
     
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  23. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good to me and for the Pulse Code in Cab Signaling you actually find that in game Long Island Rail Road and Northeast Corridor New York area. Speaking of Amserfoot CS Enschede route is there a portion that requires ETCS or not otherwise you're going to have a situation to which you need to turn off ATB then Activate ETCS. In the case of DB BR 189 border stations like Emmerich and Bad Bentheim voltage and signaling system changes while ETCS is turned on all the way from Köln or Gemünden
     
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  24. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    There are no ETCS sections along the route. The entire route is protected with ATB. There are plans to introduce ETCS in the future. ATB runs until just over the border, where PZB starts. Have a look at the map below, it shows all the safety systems on the Dutch Railway Network.
    [​IMG]
     
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  25. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Helpful indeed and for Dovetail games they need a tutorial on how to switch between ATB EG/ATB NG to German PZB LZB Sifa provided your route gets combined with the German Extension of Amserfoot CS Enschede which is Dortmund Enschede as a DLC. Part of the link between Rhein Ruhr Enschede DLC link corridor if people wanted a Rhein Ruhr Enschede DLC route corridor.
     
  26. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The route from Hengelo to Bad Bentheim and on to Rheine or Osnabrück could use such a tutorial, I have no suggestion for it at this time though. I don't think further extensions to this route will be made, it's already quite long, a border route between the Netherlands and Germany would have to be standalone.
     
  27. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for telling me about it speaking of Amserfoot CS Enschede route Does NS Dutch Railways use DMU units or not? Just in case if players need a diesel unit to use for Passenger services. NS 6400s can also do heavy Goods train in a triple formation http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix_frameset.html. That can be useful if there needs to be a scenario where you need to play as a Heavy goods train from Enschede to Amserfoot CS.
     
  28. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    A post by Jo_Kim inspired me to add a little bit of extra signalling info. In the Netherlands a 'Vertreklicht' (Departure light) is used, it is switched on when the signal after the platform is green, and the train is allowed by schedule to close its doors and depart. In game it could be linked to the completion of the loading task. It can look like the image below, but could also be suspended from a platform roof. In addition to the departure light, there is also a blue square signifying where the train should stop.
    [​IMG]
    Top to bottom:
    • Departure light
    • 'V' indicating it's a departure light 'vertreklicht'
    • Blue shield indicatting stopping positions at platforms. These can have numbers in them, to signify the amount of cars for which the position is accurate.
    Normally I'd add this to the post itself, but I've run out of space for images.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  29. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I think the NS Serie 1700 should come in a pack together with the Serie 1600, as they are largely similar, with the only differences being the air compressor, location of air hoses at the couplings, manufacturers stickers (1600) vs steel plaques (1700) and a few differences in the location of dials and gauges on the drivers desk. The differences shouldn't be enough to warrent seperate DLCs, just make it one DLC that costs 2 or 3 euros more. If they just slap a different number on it, and ignore the differences, I wouldn't even be upset, as long as it doesn't come at an extra cost :).

    That DLC would be a good one to come just after release, like the 465 for SEH. The VIRMm and SNG have the problem of probably being required to come as standard locos with other future Dutch routes (if this one sells well), meaning DTG should probably hold off on them until they know how well this route sells.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  30. renaldo444

    renaldo444 Member

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    Would be perfect with the koploper and the virm. Im wait also for the Netherlands to come.

    It doesn't matter from where to where but would be perfect time for a new country.

    But I have to say dovetail games does a great job first Franse new now southeastern highspeed the arosa line is come soon now its hopefully time for the Netherlands

     
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  31. V3NCT0

    V3NCT0 New Member

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    Finally someone not mentioning another Britain or German route .. getting tired of those. It's like they are the only important routes to be created. I would absolutely love a Dutch route, or even Belgian or something more exotic like China or Japan but no more Britain or Germany please.

    Love your clear and widely informative message, itt really stands out in all other small message so I hope they finally pick up on that one!
     
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  32. renaldo444

    renaldo444 Member

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    Tired not but I mean it's interesting to learn some other safety systems like from other countries and other types of trains i really love that game i don't get tired of any line if it's German or France doesn't matter but I like to learn something else about safety systems and how it brakes and accelerate and different countries like the arosa line what came up something new something interesting some other systems you need to get access to drive out like this i like and yeah even if there is much of German trains maybe they need also access to work with the paint jobs and names of the railway i don't know how it works but I hope the Dutch route came as soon as possible and than maybe the Belgium line or polish or Italian doesn't matter its make the game only more interesting!
     
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  33. V3NCT0

    V3NCT0 New Member

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    Well I do have almost all DLC and they are fun to play, keeps me amused but I think they focus too much on the same countries for tracks. Of course they are known the most and been in previous titles of train simulators so it's easier to keep them in new titles too but I think it would be fun to explore more different routes. There are some interesting routes all around the world and some change would make it more interesting :) don't get me wrong, I'm happy with all the new stuff we get.
     
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  34. renaldo444

    renaldo444 Member

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    For sure I have also much DLC but like I said and how whe think they can really make good money with how they work now other countries other systems other signaling they are on the good way really interesting
     
  35. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I added the DR V60 from HSL to the suggestions. A lot of private shunters can be seen around this area, some being used to haul traffic across the border to Germany. The V60 might not be the right choice though, as information is sparse and there could be as little as 1 left, but up to 6. Let me know if you have a better shunting alternative.
     
  36. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I have been thinking. I think that only the Enschede - Apeldoorn section would probably be better, and at the very least more likely to come to the game. I've listed the advantages and disadvantages of shortening the route to Enschede - Apeldoorn below.

    Advantages
    • Still a full service for Sprinter Services.
    • No potentially boring bit through the Veluwe, with less trains and stations
    • The route length is better fit for TSW 2 at 72 km
    Disadvantages
    • The route could connect to other future Dutch routes at Amersfoort CS, this isn't possible when the route only runs to Apeldoorn
    • Less length for IC services
    • Less yards for freight and shunting services
     
  37. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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  38. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I really like both, the problem with the ICM is that beyond about 2011 none were unmodernized. Therefore the entire route would have to be set before that, which gets problematic, because the rolling stock variety then was less. The Almelo verdiept then also becomes an issue, as it was completed in 2009, at which point all 3-car sets were already modernized. Setting the route before 2009 (and thus before the Almelo Verdiept) would be a bit of a challenge due to a lack of pictures from that time, and the Almelo Verdiept being one of the interesting elements of the route. I chose to set it in the current era just because of ease of research and rolling stock variety.

    The ICM would still be fun to see, but would perhaps better on a different route. I also wouldn't mind seeing it here, but some people might be annoyed by the anachronism (looking at Legends of Great Western).
     
  39. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    266px-Spoorlijn_Amsterdam_-_Rotterdam.png Nederlands_Spoorwegmuseum_loc_NS_1201.jpg Mat_'46_-_Utrecht_CS_1969.jpg 1280px-thumbnail.jpg Plan_E_Interieur.jpg Better Amsterdam Rotterdam via Haarlem and Leiden which the old line in the 70's with Mat 46, 56, Bolkop Coaches, Plan E coaches, Gbd freightwagon in "van Gent en Loos"Livery, Mat 64, Plan U, NS1100, NS 1200, NS2200, NS2400 and Gronk in NS Livery. Last one is already present in TSW2 but needs and Dutch livery update and NS headlight cluster such as the old Brass Oil lamp fitted on both sides of the engine while shunting.

    images from nl.wikipedia:
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
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  40. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Everyone has their own preferences, I'd like an older Dutch route too, but I like this one first. I suggest that you make your own suggestion of this route in a separate thread. :)
     
  41. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    This video shows the operations as Amersfoort CS, as a lot of lines meet here, there is a lot too see.


    This video shows Deventer station, the SGMm and ICMm, togther with the international services hauled by the NS 1700 can be seen a lot in this video.


    This video shows of Hengelo station, and the trains there. Besides the ICMm and SGMm, the DDZ can be seen in this video.


    This last video shos of Almelo station. This one is a bit old, and a lot of stock in the video has been replaced (the DM '90 by Blauwnet FLIRTs, and thet Mat '64 by the SGMm sets). The video still gives a good idea of the freight operations though.
     
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  42. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

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    Very nice information, but the SGMm is now replaced by the SNG.
     
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  43. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Starting from january 2021, it is indeed nearly completely replaced. That is why I chose to set the route in 2019/2020 (and because the 1700 + DD-AR coaches stopped servicing this line in 2019). 2019 would allow the most variety in rolling stock.
     
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  44. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    upload_2021-3-25_11-43-14.png
    If the route isn't set in 2019/2020 (where I do think it would be best), it would be an option to add the new NS vectrons leased from ELL. They have been put into the newest NS yellow and blue scheme recently. They are intended for the Nightjet trains from Amsterdam to Switzerland, but as these services haven't started yet, NS uses them on the IC to berlin. There are 2 of fhem, with one in reserve, while the other hauls Intercitys from Amsterdam to Bad Bentheim all through the day.
     
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  45. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

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    Today was my lucky day that I could photograph this train at Hengelo :D
    Here are some in-detail picture I made. (These are a bit tilted to the right because I have a broken wrist so its hard to make straight pictures.)
    DSC_0594.jpeg DSC_0580.jpeg DSC_0579.jpeg DSC_0567.jpeg
     
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  46. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I didn't know about it at all until yesterday, when I suddenly encountered a big yellow and unfamiliar vectron on my way to school. Hope that wrist heals soon for you!
     
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  47. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    As some may have already noticed this suggestion is getting a bit long. When editing some additional information into it, I just reached the limit :). I think I'll leave this suggestion for what it is now, at least until there is news on Dutch routes, and adding layers to this suggestion becomes neccesary. I really hope this route can still gain some more traction.
     
  48. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    i wish they dont change the new ns livery
     
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  49. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    oh and if im right they changed the front of the SNG because it wasnt visible at Railroad Crossings, causing multiple accidents
     
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  50. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, the noses of the VIRM, SNG, ICNG (as far as I know) needs to be brighter. This is the SNG:
    [​IMG]
    I know, ITS UGLY
     
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