Amersfoort-zwolle/utrecht-appeldoorn Suggestions (train Sim World 2)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by carlingamesnl, Sep 18, 2020.

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  1. Amersfoort - Zwolle

  2. Utrecht - Apeldoorn

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  1. carlingamesnl

    carlingamesnl Member

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    Hello, I have a two suggestions for routes in the Netherlands

    1. Amersfoort Centraal <> Zwolle Trains: SLT or sng for sprinter (sp) and the ICMm or VIRMm for intercity (ic)
    Stops: Amersfoort centraal (all), Amersfoort schothorst(sp), Amersfoort vathorst(sp), Nijkerk(all), Putten(sp), Ermelo(sp), Harderwijk(all), Nunspeet(sp), 't Harde(sp), Wezep(sp), Zwolle(all)
    Length: 64 kilometres
    https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1CBi5d98hYFFVI2NnVevj5LtjStrpGU_2&usp=sharing

    ICMm from Amersfoort to Zwolle


    SLT same route but from Zwolle to Amersfoort


    2. Utrecht <> Apeldoorn Trains: same as above
    Stops: Utrecht centraal(all), Utrecht overvecht(sp), Utrecht Maliebaan(this is a shuttle train stationWhere the dutch railway museum is located), Bilthoven(sp), Den dolder(sp), Amersfoort centraal(all), Hoevelaken(valleilijn), (Barneveld noord (valleilijn) this is a curved station about 30 metres from the mainline) Apeldoorn centraal(all)
    Length: 60 kilometres
    https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1__mio8X6EKtjsmyY_4ZU7FL3xQRO9nHt&usp=sharing

    Utrecht to Apeldoorn (first 40 minutes)


    Both routes can include the PONlijn wich is a single track non electrified line where a diesel loco will run up and down the line from Amersfoort to PON in Leusden. Where it will leave behind or pickup coaches full of cars.
    Train Frequency throughout the Netherlands is every 15 - 30 minutes

    Rolling stock:

    ICMm:
    This is one of the most iconic trains in the Netherlands. It is an intercity train that mostly operates on routes that connect the randstad (the big cities) with the north and east of the country. They have 3 or 4 cars but can often been seen on long routes with 2 or 3 ICMm's coupled together.
    upload_2021-4-7_10-20-19.jpeg

    VIRMm:
    This is the other intercity from the Netherlands this train operates on both routes but less frequently compared to the ICMm. This train has 3, 4 or 6 cars.
    [​IMG]

    SLT:

    This is a sprinter and it will be the oldest still running sprinter stock after the 31st of december 2021 when the SGMm goes out of service. They have 4 or 6 cars.
    [​IMG]

    SNG:
    This is the newest sprinter on the dutch rail network. They are made to replace the SGMm from the '70s. Some people claim the seats on these trains are uncomfortable but I don't agree. They have 3 or 4 cars.
    [​IMG]

    PROTOS and or FLIRT
    This is for the short journey between Amersfoort and hoevelaken (can continue to barneveld noord if it gets added). These trains are operated by connexxion under the branding of Valleilijn. The PROTOS is the rarest train in the World with only 5 units wich all operate here. They are 2 coaches.
    The FLIRT is a common train all over the world and this specific type is a FLIRT 3 and only has a cabdoor on 1 side. these have 3 coaches and Valleilijn owns 2.

    first picture is the FLIRT and the second one is the PROTOS
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    ICB:
    This isn't the official name off the rolling stock but I am talking about the intercity Berlin this is a train that drives from Amsterdam to Berlin and the portion of my suggestion they drive on is between Amersfoort and Apeldoorn on the 2nd route. these trains have DB coaches with either a vectron or a 1600/1700/1800 pulling it. They are formed of 8 coaches excluding the locomotive (I think). These coaches are the same as the ones on the db br 101 wich pulls the train from Bad Bentheim to Berlin but that isn't included on this route.
    [​IMG]
    upload_2021-4-7_10-36-6.jpeg

    MaK 6400
    This is a train that goes up and down the PON lijn
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2021
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  2. dasmith1

    dasmith1 Active Member

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    Dutch routes is highly requested route add-on, it was talked about on the Live Streams 2-4 weeks ago.
     
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  3. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    I support the idea of a Dutch route! Europe (and all the other continents) has a lot more to offer when it comes to railways, than those we already know. The landscape would be also interesting: I can imagine to see some dyks, windmills and tulip fields. And of course there is a lot of cross-border traffic with some German ICEs or international freight trains, coming and going from one of the largest seaports in Rotterdam. So we can see some well known Traxx 2 E-locos or which of French origin in different liveries...
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  4. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Utrecht - Amersfoort - Zwolle is pretty much only forests all the way. IMO this isn't the most interesting route. Also, pretty sure Apeldoorn isn't somewhere along that route, so you got something confused there.
     
  5. carlingamesnl

    carlingamesnl Member

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    oops i just spotted the mistake it was supposed to be Amersfoort-zwolle and Utrecht-apeldoorn
     
  6. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Dutch routes would be very welcome. It may be good to start with one of the wonderful regional routes, like Vechtdallijn (Zwolle-Emmen/Almelo), or the lines between Zuthpen and Winterswijk ond Arnhem and Winterswijk. This would be less demanding for rolling stock and route objects.
     
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  7. carlingamesnl

    carlingamesnl Member

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    if we would want shorter routes for a start i think you should do valleilijn (Amersfoort-Ede)
     
  8. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    A Dutch route wouldn't be the same without those iconic NS trains. A Dutch route that isn't operated by NS wouldn't have my preference, TBH.
     
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  9. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I feel the same, we need a dutch mainline. Firstly because the mainlines see way more traffic and variety of rolling stock. Secondly because DTG said in a stream that when they develop a route for a new country, they would want to do more routes for this country as it otherwise would be a waste of the system, and then the best starting point would be a mainline route with some of the most common rolling stock, so this rolling stock can layer onto future Dutch routes. Another reason would be that our iconic rolling stock like the ICM(m) and VIRM(m) are most likely to draw non-Dutch players in, because its something other railfans also recognise.

    It also might be easier licensing-wise, NS is easier to negotiate (and I believe DTG have experience with them) with then most private operators.

    As for which mainline is best, I am of course convinced that it is my suggestion, because of the high frequencies on just a double track railway with lots of freight mixed into the passenger operations, leading to a busy and varied route. However, I think that something like Purno's suggestion is more likely to be added (first) because it includes Amsterdam, which might also lure in non-Dutch players. But on the forums there are many more good Dutch suggestions, showing to DTG that there enough options for not only the first Dutch route, but also later ones that use the same systems and partially the same rolling stock. I can't list them all here, but many are included in my map of German and Dutch suggestions. I'd like to see private Dutch operators one day, like the Blauwnet brand, which is operated by Keolis and Arriva, but I don't think they're likely to come soon, due to low non-Dutch player interest and licensing.

    All in all I have good hopes for a Dutch route soon, the only possible problem might be doing route surveys due to Covid, and licensing, though I don't think NS is very difficult.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  10. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    https://store.steampowered.com/app/65249/Train_Simulator_DB_Freight_1970s_Loco_AddOn/ features one wagon with NS logo, so I assume that DTG has a license. https://www.christrains.com/ also sells quite a few of branded NS trains.

    Getting access to the trains for recording and modelling could be an issue, unless they can work together with https://www.christrains.com/ who already has done a lot of research. There was once was a Rivet livestream with Christrains, so perhaps a collaboration between Rivet and Christrains is another possibility. In surveys held by Rivet they've asked players how likely they are to purchase Dutch DLC.

    We can only show that there's an interest in Dutch railways, hope, give some detailled suggestions to help whoever wants to make a Dutch route, and keep poking people like Jasper_Rivet about suggestions like this ;)

    If there's any other way we can help a potential developer developing something awesomely Dutch, I'd love to hear it :)

    A few Arriva DLC for Train Simulator had to be withdrawn from the steam store, and later reappeared unbranded. So I think we can rule out Arriva. Keolis is for 70% owned by SNCF, I don't know if that helps with licensing. Blauwnet seems to be a brand invented by the provincial government of Overijssel, which could help as it's not owned by a privatized company. However, Blauwnet livery still features Keolis and Arriva brands.
     
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  11. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    If DTG does a route near me I'd be more then happy to take any amount of pictures required. I'd also be happy to translate sources. Sadly I think that that's where my usefulness stops, as I don't have sound recording equipment or experience (aka i'd be very bad at it). Luckily there are a lot of sounds already in circulation, and I remember someone making good Dutch sound mods for transport fever 2, maybe they have or know where to get the license. Christrains would also be a good partner in the development of Dutch railways I think. I wonder if he would just provide sound, as I don't think it's very likely he'll switch to modelling in TSW 2, but who knows, a developer of Dutch add-ons like TSG for Germany would be fantastic.

    I think it's best for Dutch community members to send DTG protagonist (sam) a PM, and to tell them how you can be of assistance, whenever a Dutch route hits the roadmap.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
  12. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Oh once a Dutch route makes it to the roadmap we've already passed the biggest hurdles. Biggest challenge is to get a Dutch route on the roadmap. I'm trying to do whatever I think I can do in order to increase the chances of it happening. In my own route suggestion topic I try to think about things like reusing assets (mainly DB locos), and a realistic route length. With pictures and videos I try to peak the interest of people not familiar with the route. Because we are a relatively small country, we need a Dutch route suggestion that's also interesting for people living in foreign countries.

    If there's any other things I can do to increase the chances of a Dutch route making it to the roadmap, I'd love to hear it. Personally I've ran out of ideas. :P

    I mean, I could keep poking DTG Protagonist about it, but I'm pretty sure he knows Dutch routes are being requested pretty frequently. If I remember correctly it made it pretty high up the list of suggestions. Doing more poking of DTG staff may just annoy them. I doubt that increases our chances. (If it does, please tell me :P )
     
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  13. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying my best with my suggestion aswell. Even though it doesn't feature the big cities in the west, I've tried to make it interesting by explaining just how unique operations (with 2 trains on the same platform) are, and I hopefully made it clear that the frequency is just stunning, a train at least every 15 minutes in every direction, with freight and international traffic coming on top of that, it's perfect for all those players that want a more lively route! My suggestion was a bit long, but with CRR coming and LGV already out it is within bounds. (And of course it has a good option for shortening, by only running as far as Apeldoorn?

    I really hope the hurdles can be overcome!
     
  14. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    I used to take this train to school some years ago
    Would be an interesting first Dutch route, but perhaps a bit long for the very first Dutch route :P
     
  15. carlingamesnl

    carlingamesnl Member

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    you can never say to long if the first french route was almost 100km (yes i know that it is mostly empty but still)
     
  16. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    So I rather like this idea, also because for over a year it has been the train I took to uni.
    Wondering though, wouldn't it be better to go just a little further and end at Utrecht?
    Now you have a closed line between 2 major stations, Zwolle-Utrecht, and you can run the whole stop service, as well as the once branching off at Amersfoort.
    This also brings the absolute ideal opportunity to also include the Maliebaan to the Utrecht Railway Museum.
    [​IMG]

    That would be such a treat and makes a route containing Utrecht an incredible addition to people's collection if the railway museum is a largely traversable place in-game, perhaps in collaboration with them. Doesn't have to be in detail, just the outside grounds with some of the old trains as static models and a lot of collectables would already be great.
     
  17. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    I know I've responded to this thread before, but I really like it, and I forgot I did, so I just rediscovered it, sorry xD
     
  18. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    For a little more information, the Utrecht Maliebaan is a small line between Utrecht Centraal station and the Utrecht Railway Museum.
    It used to be operated by older more nostalgic trains, last I went it was NS SGM.
    Then the train moves to a part of the line just after Utrecht Overvecht where the driver changes ends to take the switch left where it'll drive with slow speed, 40kp/h, through the city to the railway museum.
    Here's a cabride of the trip from the railway museum back to Utrecht Centraal station.
     
  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Chose Utrecht Apeldoorn for a Dutch route that is urban to Rural. That one can be linked to Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr if the missing Utrecht-Arnhem Oberhausen-Duisburg Railway is built and make Utrecht CS busy rather than dead.
     
  20. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't chose any of those two. Although I'm not hugely familiar with both routes, I've driven them a few times in the past, and I remember them being pretty long and boring stretches of the same landscape over and over again. I'd love to see a Dutch route in the game, but there's gotta be more interested routes that those two, I'd say.
     
  21. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    Generally true, especially when you're getting closer to Zwolle. That's why I asked to include Utrecht in the Amersfoort-Zwolle part.
    That way there's contrast cause the stretch between Utrecht and Amersfoort is actually very urban, unlike the part before, making the route feel more realistic as you're actually getting somewhere different. As well as the option to include the Railway Museum as I laid out before.
    If it's just Amersfoort-Zwolle though I'm gonna have to agree with you, it'd be too barren for a route compared to some of the other suggestions.
     
  22. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    The urbanisation at Utrecht ends as soon as you leave Utrecht. The area around Bilthoven and De Bilt is just forests, as is pretty much the whole section between Utrecht and Amersfoort, as well as the section between Amersfoort and Zwolle.

    I'm less familiar with the route to Apeldoorn, but I remember it being similarly long stretches of either forests, or plain fields, which little variation in between.

    IMO any route within the Randstad area would be more interesting, as it features plenty of urban areas, as well as countryside in between the cities, while keeping route length to a realistic level.
     
  23. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    I can't fully agree with you there, but I do get where you're coming from.
    It's more urban in comparison than the previous part, but still pretty urban. It's more that the towns are far more compressed than before

    Yeah, me too unfortunately. But from what I remember of it from the TS20xx mod, 't Hart van NL, Apeldoorn is unfortunately the more boring one of the too, being even longer stretches of nothing.

    I 100% agree with that. In my opinion the best routes to start with for the Netherlands are your Amsterdam/Schiphol - Amersfoort/Lelystad route, and my own Utrecht-Gouda-Rotterdam/Den Haag suggestions.
    Though that being said, for me personally, I would still feel like Zwolle-Utrecht would be worth despite it being longer stretches.
     

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