Ecml From London King Cross To Edinburgh

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Ferrovipathe67, Aug 3, 2021.

  1. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    Hello everyone today I propose the complete line of the eclm of london king cross to edinburgh this line is 700 kilometers but also the busiest line in the United Kingdom I think this line will be very interesting for TSW 2 rush hour and this line and also the most important of the united kingdom on TS classic

    (I propose that the map takes place in 2020)

    the trains I propose on this line
    the class 800/801 Itachi express train
    [​IMG]
    The class 91 with MK 4 coaches and the pilot cars upload_2021-8-3_12-7-42.jpeg

    the class 365
    upload_2021-8-3_12-3-55.jpeg
    The class 700 upload_2021-8-3_12-5-48.jpeg
    and the class 66 freightliner/EWS and Gbrf upload_2021-8-3_12-7-25.jpeg
     
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  2. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    upload_2021-8-3_12-11-50.jpeg this is london kings cross
    upload_2021-8-3_12-12-26.jpeg this is peterborough train station
    upload_2021-8-3_12-13-3.jpeg Edinburgh train station
    upload_2021-8-3_12-15-29.jpeg York train station
     
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  3. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Oof, where to start here.

    I think most people (who have an interest in UK railways) want the ECML.
    However, I think most can agree, the whole thing in one route? Ain't gonna happen, frankly.

    It'd need to be significantly broken down, and would likely take a hell of a long time to develop, even if broken into seperate routes. (Luckily, the ECML's major stations are generally a reasonable distance from each other, so it's possible to break it down and have it minimalised.)

    Now, your rolling stock choices:
    The stock is all good, however it's what isn't there.

    You would likely feel the lack of Northern, ScotRail, Grand Central, Hull Trains etc, after Peterborough etc. It would just be InterCity only.

    To reiterate, I think we all would like the ECML, but it being all-in-one, is not going to have a very good chance of seeing the light of day.
     
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  4. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    700km for a route just isn't possible in TSW. It was only made possible in TS20xx thanks to others merging 4 other routes from a couple of other sources (not just DTG).

    If we ever see the ECML in TSW series, it will be a section of the line and this will depend on operator licences and train licences.
     
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  5. owls18678773

    owls18678773 New Member

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    would they add the NRM on the route ??
     
  6. dasmith1

    dasmith1 Active Member

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    Too long for TSW 2 and would be in production for well over a year.
     
  7. lancpudn

    lancpudn New Member

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    I'd love to see any section of the ECML with the mighty class 91 in Inter-city livery


    [​IMG]
     
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  8. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    No, if DTG and the third studio fully cooperate in development, it will be very fast.
     
  9. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    This route can be used as a season ticket for next year. Then next year, players will also say that in the coming summer, prices can be increased on this attractive route to support a longer development cycle. It depends on whether DTG can break through the license.
     
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  10. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    No it won't.

    Rivet and Skyhook (the only Third Parties we have who would bother with UK Content), with Dovetail, wouldn't be able to make London - Edinburgh quickly.

    I'd guess at least 10 months, which would still be far too long for any of the companies to go without another release in-between.
     
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  11. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    A season ticket with the ECML only would sell incredibly well in the UK and Casual community, but I doubt German or American fans would be as enthusiastic, considering they'll have been sidelined for a year just so the UK can get a 400+ mile route with loads of locos.
     
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  12. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    As long as there is sufficient commercial value, DTG can develop because they are companies. They depend on the reaction of players and the market. When the time is right, is there any reason not to develop opportunities for them to make more money? For us, this super long route has a very good appeal. For me, I have no reason to refuse its temptation!
     
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  13. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    do not doubt! If they really develop this route, it is okay to develop it in two or three years, because they have to free up other manpower to serve other routes.
     
  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Just imagining the furore people would have if something was on the roadmap for 24 months...
     
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  15. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    You'd have reason once they announced the price necessary to recover costs on this megaroute, I'd imagine.
     
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  16. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Consider this, the British Community overall is one of the 3 largest, alongside America (The United States of) and Germany.

    However, we are not the majority (it may seem like it on these forums, but we aren't).

    If Dovetail go ahead and say: "right, let's spend the next year (it would likely be this or higher, lower would be if we're lucky) developing the East Coast Mainline." The German community is being sidelined, and it's Salt into the wound for the Americans - especially those who prefers passenger routes, who only have Boston Sprinter, SFJ and LIRR to enjoy (and NEC: NY if they go back to TSW2020).

    I'm a member of the UK-focused section of the forums, with a special focus on Scotland, but I'd take near enough anything in the UK;

    I wouldn't consider for a second saying no to this, for any reason other than being realistic about it.

    The East Coast Mainline, with it's plethora of trains, is far too much to make without taking a financial hit.
    The gap between releases (let's say after Sherman Hill and the next German Route) would be too massive to fill in, and would have more negative effects than good.

    And - unless you are willing to set aside a good chunk of your day - you're likely to find yourself operating the route in parts, which is what you'd get in a realistic scenario, which has DTG break the ECML down.

    The exact same narrative applies to the WCML.

    No, it's not Okay to develop it for 2 or 3 years.

    Firstly, that would put UK routes on pause for that time, with seperate teams on German and US content, meaning all the UK would get is third parties.

    And then, on top of that, all that work DTG would put in would have no reward for a matter of years.

    This is an optimistic suggestion. And actually, it's almost too optimistic.
     
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  17. finntd#7891

    finntd#7891 Well-Known Member

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    wow that was a lot to unpack, and read, indeed a very controversial post here, but if im to give my opinion, i continue to believe a remake of ECML Newcastle - York and or London - Peterborough from TSC Would be best to introduce the ECML To TSW2, a Past ECML, and Modern ECML, both nearly an Eighth (please correct me if im wrong) of the whole route like you suggested which is simply too long, and would cost to much to make and be very taxing on the systems it would Run on.
     
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  18. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    If you could have a section of the ECML which would you want
     
  19. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    London to Peterborough or Newcastle to York tbh
     
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  20. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    I've read through this whole chat and thought there was a lack of understanding from some of you
    If DTG and the 2 third parties that make uk dlc joined forces and solely worked on that route together the route could be done in a year to a year and a couple of months
    Now let's think about what they have to make
    The how multi hundred route, around 5-8 different locos for it to be diverse,majority of which would be new locos, the amount of stations, pis screens, scenarios, timetables and scenery
    And all necessary licences
    And while this is all being made nothing is being put on the roadmap which is going to upset the community
    No German routes
    No American routes Which the community seems to be annoyed about already
    No British routes
    Less updates
    A shortage of streams
    DTG and third parties would lose out on a lot of money and their fan base would start to shrink not by large numbers but ones or twos every here and there which is a loss of £24.99 here and there every week which in the time it would take to build the route is a lot of money if you times 24.99 by 365 days +,
    DTG and third parties would have to budget live
    And once the route is finished matt would have grown an afro (no offence matt )
    The route would cost around £70 along with additional add ons that would be made at around £15.99 just to help them pay for the electricity
    And I dint think it would be fun to drive for over 2hrs at 125mph
    And don't forget stations like kings cross and York would need dto be very detailed
    So your idea is a good one but try to narrow it down by a couple hundred miles so it would be an enjoyable route and not too hard to make
     
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  21. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    To make a route that excites many players, I think this is also the goal of DTG. If the length of the entire route is about 400 miles, they will sell it in several sections, choose according to different preferences, or choose a certain section. I think this multiplayer game will be launched for a 400-mile route. Because on this legendary long-distance route, many players can experience driving on it.
     
  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    You'd be surprised what some people want to drive... there are videos on youtube of the whole route being driven in TS1 which is over four hours
     
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  23. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it will excite many players, and yeah, it would be brilliant to have, but it has virtually no practical or financial sense.

    - Dovetail, Rivet and Skyhook would have to go without any new TSW releases for over a year, that would most likely drag finances down, and, employees need to eat and have a roof over their heads. DTG can't just say "it's alright guys we're building the East Coast Mainline!"

    - Also, having one singular British route on the roadmap for over a year would - no doubt- annoy and alienate the German, US and Other Communities within TSW's Community.

    - And then of course, licensing.
    The 'main' operators on this line are, LNER, Great Northern, Thameslink, Northern and ScotRail. Only ScotRail has appeared in game, with GN and Thameslink having appeared in that files "leak" of licenses. But that still leaves you without LNER - the main operator by far, the InterCity services that would be one of the best things about the route, absent?

    - Similar to the first point, the cost of this would be huge - not only for the company, for us.

    To cover costs the price of this route would have to be massively increased.

    The other option is, that they split it down into smaller sections, which would be more practical if built at seperate times, as seperate routes. And even at that, the Whole ECML would still be really expensive to buy.

    You may be optimistic, I'll give you that, but it's just unrealistic to think this is a possibility.

    I'd love to see the entire ECML, but it's not happening, at least not as one route.
     
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  24. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    4 hours wow even if I wanted the route I don't think I would have enough spare time
    But everyone has different preferences and time on their hands
     
  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    There are "day in the life" vids of TSW2 players doing 9 hours... They jump in game at 8am and keep playing services ALL day long
     
  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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  27. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    There very devoted to their train driving then
     
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  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Newcastle to Berwick would be quite nice as a section and doable within the constraints of TSW. It’s about time we had a section of main line that offers a bit of scenery and an opportunity for fast running, which isn’t London centric. However as I remarked in another thread, the ECML without a Deltic and/or a Paxman engine HST would be sacrilege.
     
  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    They obviously don’t have a wife (or a life), then!
     
  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I believe they do... Some people do weird things on their days off
     
  31. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    You may be right! There are a series of Snowrunner vids on YT by a guy called Gameriot and he must have spent hours doing the missions to make them (average speed of a truck in Snowrunner is around 20km/h) but is constantly referring to his wife and young kid.
     
  32. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That person makes so much content they probably make a living from their youtube vids... three long vids posted in the same day sometimes
     
  33. Southern Driver

    Southern Driver Active Member

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    Can I just point out that London Commuter is 50 miles or so and has performance issues. So 400 miles?! Really?

    subject to license restrictions etc, Kings X to Peterborough on the ECML and Euston to Milton Keynes are more feasible.

    but if you want to make a fast main line that has beautiful scenery perhaps Preston to Carlisle would be worth consideration?
     
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  34. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    I did suggestion on the wcml the other day ill link it
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/west-coast-mainline-london-euston-milton-keynes.47292/
     
  35. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    London Kings Cross to Edinburgh? No way!
    As a minimum it should be Kings Cross to Aberdeen but as a community we should be pushing for Kings Cross to Inverness. That would be a good route for guard mode, signaller mode and multiplayer mode to come out too.
     
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  36. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    Not both Aberdeen and Inverness, I do expect my routes to be a decent length ;)
     
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  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Why stop there...? Have the Brighton Mainline link up with the Thameslink core, then use the Chord from SEHS to link to the ECML and run all the way to Wick!
    Would surely be better to have the whole route?
     
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  38. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    Now you two are just being plain unreasonable :(
     
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  39. isaac47593

    isaac47593 Well-Known Member

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    ECML would be a really good route but there would be no way that they’d do the full route. Also personally a HST and 91 would be better than a 91 and an Azuma
     
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  40. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Are you feeling alright?

    The only (sane) option is WCML London - Glasgow, Carstairs - London (via Edinburgh), The Circle line (to connect Kings Cross St Pancras and Euston (Square)), and merge it with SEHS, Bakerloo and BML (with the TL Core).

    Honestly, so negative rhetoric on this forum... :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
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  41. 43050

    43050 Active Member

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    If they don’t extend SEHS all the way to Dover and HS1 to Paris I’ll deffo be waiting for a sale
     
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  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure there should be a boat train in there somewhere...
     
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  43. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Or a 5BEL set diesel hauled by the LMS 10001 diesel…
     
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  44. Lil jj

    Lil jj New Member

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    It's a very good suggestion and would love it in tsw2, but it is very long and maybe shorten to like london kings x to stevenage or another
     
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  45. Blu

    Blu Active Member

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    But even the most die hard train fan would give up after 2 hours! Its just not practical having routes over 2hrs in length! Many people would give up even before they got half way. Yes as a passenger in real life it may not feel to far! add in a few beers etc from the buffet car. fantastic.

    4 hours driving even a train is hard work, for the professionals.

    Newcastle - York and Peterborough or Cambridge to KGX would be the best options. Edinburgh - Newcastle would just be boring In my own Opinion.
     
  46. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    It takes four hours to drive the entire route of the game, so why don’t you choose a one-hour drive timetable? For me, I can enjoy nine hours of driving fun, of course, the freight series such as the US route.
     
  47. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    British Rail Deltic and HST or it’s not worth making.
     
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  48. Woroszyl The NS 2000

    Woroszyl The NS 2000 Active Member

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    good idea
     
  49. Blu

    Blu Active Member

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    Its all about the time and effort needed by DTG to make such a route. Most people don't have the time or the will to drive for that length of time. For DTG to build a route of this length it would take years! (Ask DTG they will tell you this). Its just not practical commercially.

    Your normal route in TSW2 is around 50 miles £24.99 so are you willing to pay 7 times more for a route 400 miles long? Then add in the relevant motive power and rolling stock to get it anywhere near realistic. Need I say more? Its a nice idea just not doable.
     
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  50. Blu

    Blu Active Member

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    You missed out 7 other key stations. Berwick, Newcastle Central, Durham, Darlington, Doncaster, Newark and Grantham.

    With rollingstock/ Motive power. XC Class 220s, HSTs are missing. Trans Pennine Hitachi sets could be doubled up with the LNER ones to cut corners.

    With regard freight you chose a good loco Class 66 Primarily GBRf and DRS in the North east Area But would need Freightliner and DBC skins too.

    But what wagons? Intermodal? aggerates? engineering, Biomass. all and more would need to be modelled.

    Id go for Intermodal and Biomass for this route.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021

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