York is a very major station in the UK which is the halfway point between London & Edinburgh. So why did they end it at Doncaster. York to Peterborough is 102 miles (164km) which is actually shorter than the Kassel-Würzburg route which is 115 miles long. We haven't had a York route yet. And when I texted on the live stream on the Roadmap. I asked "Are there plans to extend the ECML to York?" And the stream bot replied, "No plans." Does Dovetail really hate York that much? Even if it's such a beautiful city that really deserves a place in TSW? And since this is shorter than Kassel-Würzburg, it shouldn't be too hard to make. Especially since Doncaster-York is just dull farmland with dull scenery, which is very easy for Dovetail to make. So I don't see any reason why it can't go to York. I actually made a suggestion for this: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/ecml-extension-to-york-and-possible-add-ons-for-ecml.80527/
Likely the development budget only permitted the Peterborough to Doncaster segment, and keep in mind it's still the longest UK route to date (SEHS doesn't count as it was extended from the original). Comparing it to Kassel - Wurzburg isn't exactly fair as that route has a lot of mileage in tunnels. Both Peterborough and Doncaster are major junction stations with large freight yards so I can see why they picked this segment. York would have been nice but it was likely too far, but remember it can always feature in a future route still.
But what's likely to happen is there will be a York extension after the Peterborough to Doncaster route, but since the stream bot said on the Roadmap "No plans" To extend it to York, I just couldn't see why they didn't want to extend it to York.
If it had gone to York, then someone would have popped up and asked why not Leeds as well. Doncaster to York does not add much scenery wise just a flat blast across the Selby diversion line. As stated you can’t just keep building, there has to be a point at which you call it a day. Most TSW routes apart from IOW would benefit from being longer or getting an extension, as per recent conversations around Goblin Line not also including NLL, but it is what it is.
But there is already a route to Leeds: Northern TransPennine, so it would make more sense for it to end at York.
Whilst York would have been a logical end point, given its a bigger station than Doncaster or Peterborough it is probably best to have other non-ECML routes using the station first so it doesn't feel so empty. Doncaster, being a major station, is empty enough with only LNER and the odd East Midlands service. York would probably feel emptier with just LNER services.
It was simply an abstraction to point out wherever a route finishes, there is always somewhere else it can go. However you have to accept when DTG whiteboard these projects they are evaluating what’s feasible from developer availability point of view and what can give a reasonable player experience. As I said, we can post until blue in the face that x route should have included or gone on to y, but you have to draw a line.
Will happily stand corrected, but wasn't having the Doncaster to Peterborough section to tie in to the Flying Scotsman centenary celebrations as it is the section of track that it obtained its speed record? Whatever section of the ECML DT chose, they would always have one person saying "why couldn't it be here", your never going to have an audience that 100% agrees. I'm happy with the section provided, although for me personally I do like a section of track that has a terminal as it gives me an odd sense of completion at the end of a drive. But saying that I do like the ECML provided as it has some nice stopping patterns and distances Inbetween.
I said for it to go to York, because it isn't like to one random station, they went to York in Train Simulator Classic, so it just doesn't make sense for it to end at Doncaster. Ending routes made sense at locations on most of the routes in TSW, but not this.
I think TSW is alot more intensive on memory, so routes like the ones TSC with a good few miles are a little harder to make. (especially when having to cater for consoles too).
York would've been dead as a doormat timetable wise due to the lack of suitable Northern/Transpennine Express stock, at least with Doncaster we have a populated railworks.
Yeah, I agree, but it could be possible for certain trains on certain routes you own to run as AI on other routes.
Darlington - Doncaster, from a Driving perspective, is pretty uninteresting. Mile after mile of fairly straight, fairly level 125mph, running through fields. The only interesting variation is York itself. Selby used to provide a bit of variety with the speed restriction over the swing bridge, but then the Selby diversion was built so that’s gone too. Doncaster is a perfectly sensible place to end - a big railway centre which makes complete sense as a crew-change location. I don’t think there’d have been much gain in extending to York. Being able to run non-stop through Doncaster on the odd train might have been nice, but not much other benefit I can think of.
I think that York would have been better because it's been a highly wanted station by the fans since TSW1 was released in 2017, and no trains terminate at Doncaster, but some do in York, and nearly all LNER trains stop at York (Except for Leeds). So even if Doncaster-York is as dull as dishwater, it would have been more logical to end it at York.
To be completely honest I'm not overly upset about it. I used to be but the more I thought about it, the more I realised I just wanted York in the game and not so much the line there. York is a strong contender for my favourite railway station, but the line from there to Doncaster is very unremarkable with the possible exception of Colton Junction. If it was in the game it would just be another 20 miles of high speed running with very few points of interest in between. It's probably my poor attention span but by the time I get to Doncaster I'm ready to call it quits usually.
Without extending the current section to Leeds,York and Lincoln it closes of quite a few things for ECML in TSW, I do see them as near essential extensions personally for that mainline. Without route join ups aswell, having those on separate routes wouldn’t be ideal. Leaving the only alternative as them all being the current sections extensions.
York? Why not Kings Cross to Peterborough? High speed and regional options, with the Class 700 and 717. Seeing how well DTG brought urban London to life with the Goblin line, I hope to see them re-visit the ECML one day and add this section of the route. If 84 miles is too long, then to Stevenage.
I would have loved York to be the terminus (i understand why Doncaster was chosen though) but if extended or remastered routes are something DTG want to pursue, i would LOVE Doncaster to York to be created. i actually wouldn't mind York feeling a little empty in this case, after having the ECML for a while now i would much rather have York included than not at all, it would provide a much more logical end point and give a greater sense of achievement.. and ultimately a more varied gameplay pattern. i accept it probably won't ever happen.. but if DTG ever do an extended version of ECML (along the same lines they did with SEHS) i would be VERY happy! And i would personally have no issues paying extra if this was created too
I completely agree, especially since we haven't had a York route yet. So why end it at Doncaster when we haven't had a York route yet?
You are from York and that is the reason you are going on so much? I can’t think of any other reason why you would think York is a better place than Doncaster to end the route. You don’t get to walk round the city so it really is just the route that matters not the city. I guess Doncaster to York would have been acceptable if it is just that York had to be represented? Plenty of other cities not in the game too, your home city is not special as far as TSW goes.
Although I don't live IN York, I live NEAR York. But bear in mind, there are other cities that I would like to see in TSW, not just in the UK. Like Perth WA, Bruges, Newcastle, Oxford, Douglas IoM, Copenhagen, Tokyo, Prague & Budapest.
I live in Swindon (gods help me) but when it comes to GWE any theoretical extension should IMHO logically go to Oxford. I was born in Gateshead (Felling) but when it comes to extending TVL the best points would be Bishop Auckland and Boulby, not up to Newcastle.
York itself is a very impressive station, which is in its favour, but I struggle to find much interest in any of the railways which go to it. I suppose, being on the Plain of York, the terrain which railways passed through to get to York wasn’t particularly challenging, and that affects how interesting they are to drive. Even for me, as someone who would love to see an extension to the Northern Transpennine route, I’m not sure Leeds - York would be the best way to go. I think Manchester Victoria - Liverpool would be more interesting. I wonder whether there’s also a risk that York’s magnificent curved roof might work against it in terms of likelihood of it being included in a route, because of the amount of work needed to re-create it. Others will know better than me whether it would be a particularly difficult thing to do.
I do think York would have been a more logical end point, particularly as I gather it is a crew change point and I believe some services don't stop at Doncaster. Plus it is an iconic station. I rarely run the ECML route although I don't think having York in the route would change that, that much. Routes do have to end somewhere of course and as said someone will always come up with comments about where the route should have gone to. I do think there are a few cases of routes in TSW which don't always seem logical. My personal opinion is that where a route can't be made in it's entirely it would be beneficial for there to be a major station at each end. I suppose Doncaster is a fairly major station but operationally not as significant as York is. Anyway I am sure DTG don't hate York, that is a baffling argument to make!
