Ecw Class 313 - No Patch Since Release Oct 2021

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by bescot, Apr 7, 2022.

  1. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    The 313 was finally released in October 2021 after being put back several months due to QA issues.
    Some problems came to light upon release, and even Matt saw them in the stream on the same day, saying easy fix, I'll get the team onto it. I duly sent in a ticket too.

    ..Tumbleweed, fast forward to April 2022 we are still waiting for a patch. Can I ask DTG what happened? It's not in any roadmap for patching. Did anything get fixed at your end of things? Did anyone look into it? Does anyone care? It's a major bit of DLC if you like ECW - which is a cracking route, so to still have these bugs is so disappointing.

    Mainly

    1. Flange or brake squeal sounds don't work. Flange is broken somehow even though the RVAs and cues are there, brake squeal omitted completely.
    2. The Drivers safety device was set up as a Vigilance device. If you put on safety systems the DVD triggers and puts the brakes in, every 60 seconds without warning (no sound). This needed changing so the simulation is set so the 313 has a basic DSD rather than a DVD.
    3. Notch P4 is performance is way too quick.
    4. The brakes sometime continue braking after release. Eg. Go to Brake Step 2 back to 1 and release, sometimes even though the bc is at 0 bar the train will continue to brake until you wiggle the brake handle on and off a few time. It appears as if the regen brake is stuck on. Even when the regen is isolated.
    5. LODS on head/tail/marker lights are too short. Approaching 313s will appear to have no lights on until they're within 100m.

    Cheers,
    Bescot
     
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  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Good call Bescot, sadly sounds like another fire and forget release for what is the closest thing we have in the game to a traditional pre 80’s EMU.
     
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  3. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    As you say, Matt said on stream it is easy to fix and will be done quickly, but we know that all of these promises and statements are empty talking, not followed by actions, and that is how DTG works :( I hope to see these fixes, they are really needed, but I honestly gave up on it, like I do more and more with TSW in general, as these things just seem to get forgotten.
     
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  4. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Active Member

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    This is the moment when a community manager should comment something here, either a yes or a no. I mean no would be quite funny after Matt promised some fixes, but still...
     
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  5. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Why? People wouldn't believe them anyway so what's the point?

    I hope it's one of those things that's gotten stuck in the QA backlog.
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    In life saying something as simple as yes or no is better than saying nothing
     
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  7. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Great list, on the release stream Matt said DVD was going to be fixed, and he would ask the Physics guy why the acceleration was that strong, of course with no follow up.

    Personally I never noticed your n.4 issue on Series X, always playing with the dynamic brake controller and regenerative brakes off.

    But I want to add to your list that the braking force is way too much with regenerative braking on.
     
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  8. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I’d be very surprised if we get any sort of patch for the 313. It seems to be completely forgotten about, with all its issues swept under the carpet.
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That's typical for Dovetail Games to be honest
     
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  10. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Active Member

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    Community managers, where are you? My wife Karen's asking if there'll be a fix? :cool:
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2022
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  11. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Well it got lost during production, so no surprises the fixes got lost too :D
     
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  12. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    At least when preservation updates are released there wont be any excuse to not fix the product i paid for.
     
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  13. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Also to add; no door opening chimes
     
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  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think some of us who bought the Class 313 with no patch in months would like to speak to the manager!
     
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  15. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    YES!
     
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  16. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Some more issues which really shouldn't have been issues in the first place...
    - Gangways have carpet in them for some reason, which clips as the train goes through corners.
    - Seats at the very end of coaches are high-backed as opposed to low-backed as per reality.
    - Door sounds not being close to accurate. They're not the old ones, they're not the new ones, they're just not there.

    I theorised this DLC had been silently cancelled. With the amount of moronic design choices made (which I think I could have fixed within a week of launch) I would have genuinely preferred if I was correct. Sometimes there are no lessons - it's just unequivocally stupid.
     
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  17. graham.haddon

    graham.haddon Member

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    Matt did say fairly recently the Class 313 had not been forgotten about but the problems with the Rush Hour release fixes had taken priority. He said it would get fixed. Far to strong acceleration even in Notch 1. For example you should be able to have the brakes set in position 1 and advance the power to Notch 1 and the brakes be able to hold the train. This is how a driver would pull away on an uphill gradient so as not to roll back when releasing the brakes. But at the moment the train will move in Notch 1 with the brakes applied. The only way to hold it is to put the brakes in to full service.
     
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  18. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    DTG said a lot about the delay of the 313 but the trick is deciding what is true and what is an excuse.
     
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  19. paulc

    paulc Well-Known Member

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    If people did not buy this product when it was released with faults DTG would be on the case ASAP until it was right & sales picked up! As it stands, us lot go Ooooo a 313 & buy it regardless so DTG are now winning! why would they prioritise a fix when they are already winning? Every release is usually substandard in some way yet here we are still saying take my money!
     
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  20. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Yep, because that's what entitled, impatient children do.

    Remember how buggy and broken it was on the preview?
     
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  21. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing how much they broke between releasing the 314 and developing the 313.
     
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  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Rush hour eh? You mean the same routes that released 6 months ago that still have various problems? I guess dtg don't know how to fix the stuff they prioritize. Ridiculous to be honest.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
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  23. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    A loco DLC is always going to be a low priority for a patch.

    Why?

    If X number of people buy a route which needs fixing, and then theres a loco DLC which Y number of people buy tied to the route which also needs fixing. then the route is always going to take priority because X is always going to be greater than Y.
     
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  24. sequencer2k16

    sequencer2k16 Well-Known Member

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    Did the team even work on a fix or did they just twiddle their thumbs for 6 months hoping we would forget?

    Actually, it is the task of the development team of the respective routes or locos. Such fixes have to appear immediately after release and not months or even years later by a completely different team. DTGs bugfix planning is less than insufficient, there is almost no day where players do not complain about bugs that are months or years old.
     
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  25. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Im ok with that if dtg would mention "we work on that" , or if they just say they gave priority to the preserved updates.
    But there is pure silence when it comes to that.

    I think the way dtg is working when it comes to bug fixing, its kind of unefficient at all.

    Sure the bug with the 2 wrong stopping points on the bakerloo line (willesden jct & wenbley north) is low priority, but there was an easy chance to get it right due extended testing with the expansion pack & preservation update. Now bkl is done, removed from the roadmap and the bugs are still there.

    My problem with dtg is "low priority" bugs are getting ignored entirely instead of using the chances to fix those rather small things together with a critical fix, which needs testing anyway.
     
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  26. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It seems DTG are very selective as to who and what topics they will interact with here on these forums, it seems.

    Got an issue with your DTL account? Yeah, we’ll respond to that.

    If there’s a hot thread or one asking where x, y a z fixes are, they’ll steer well clear of it.

    Communication has really gone down the pan, yet again. Some things never change.
     
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  27. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Said a few days ago, definitely a sea change with how DTG are interacting with the player base on their own forum. No one expects a detailed response to every gripe or problem, but where the specific core issues are concerned - especially ongoing matters which could impact their uber high profile SoS release - some honest input would be appreciated. But I sense a definite moving to arm’s length in these parts, of late.
     
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  28. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    DTG is silence because they lie to all of us
     
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  29. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    2 posts down is probably the exact reason:
    They are constantly being accused of lying, or people otherwise don't believe what they're saying, so what's the point in communicating?
     
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  30. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Active Member

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    This topic has had 28 replies so far. I think DTG ought to reply now. This is one of the trending topics at the moment, imagine what message this sends to new players coming here to learn more about the game, especially it's current state...
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
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  31. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I have criticized DTG harsly (perhaps too much) in the past but in my opinion you are blowing the 313 problems out of proportion.

    1. Working DSD and having it cut-out because it doesn't work is honestly almost the same experience, you wouldn't have to acknowledge it anyway.
    2. The lights are annoying, yes but IMO it's not that distracting or immersion breaking
    3. If you want to be realistic, you should cut out the regenerative breaking, so the fact they are too powerful shouldn't bother people that care about running realistically anyway
    4. While the motors are too powerful, the physics overall are great, with some "tricks" like putting the throttle to a higher notch and then putting it back immediately actually resulting in lower acceleration as less resistors are cut out, meaning "under the hood" the physics are actually really well made and realistic. So the driving experience is still right and IMO immersive. The problem can also be ""solved"" by starting at step 3 acceleration and then go to step 4 at ~25/30mph.
    5. The sounds are not great, but they are not unacceptably bad like the Class 150 and BR187

    I can totally understand why the Class 313 has been put in the back burner, those are annoyances, they don't totally break or make the experience of driving the train IMO, and as a Class 313 customer, I am happy they are focusing on more pressing issues, for example
    • You still get ghost emergency brake applications in the Class 387, because the game randomly decides to not play the audio alarms, that is worse then DSD
    • CSS in Sherman Hill
    • PZB in Rapid Transit
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
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  32. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Thing is those issues are taking forever to fix. Now I know that fixes take a while, but the issues with rush hour for instance should've sorted by now. If DTG had more attention from big gaming journalists, they would receive a huge amount of backlash especially since these issues could've been avoided anyways
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  33. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but this is a discussion about the Class 313, out of all the bugs and DLCs the 313 is not as bad as this thread would lead you to believe, there actually are much worse issues that IMO need to be resolved first. I agree that the fact that those issues exist in the first place, and are not fixed yet is a big problem, but it has little to do with the 313.
     
  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I know this thread is about the 313. I have the class 313 and experienced the issues described in this thread. I don't think anyone is taking the issues out of proportion though. Yes you may not see the issues as major, but the problem is that these issues could've been sorted before release. Telling people to turn off regenerative breaking for instance shouldn't be an answer. That's like saying if dtg got pzb wrong and it caused alot of issues, to just turn it off. That shouldn't have to be the case. It should work properly the moment it is released. The frustration seems to stem from the fact that fixes have not come and while there are bigger fish to fry so to speak, this thread wouldn't have been created had dtg sorted these issues before release or have some sort of week one patch ready.
     
  35. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    And again, I agree, but compared to other releases those issues are nowhere near bad enough, we're not talking about a Class 150 or a BR187 here.

    It shouldn't been the answer and it's not, those units IRL have regen off for what I assume are maintenance purposes, so chances are (and again, I'm not saying this is a justification) that if you care about realism you were going to turn them off anyway. With PZB is different, because that should never be turned off in any circumstance, just like CSS, AWS or any other safety system, it is crucial that it works correctly, for realism's sake, that's rationale behind treating this issue and broken safety systems differently, and I fully admit, it's not objective. I don't personally think I have, but if you think I have double standards I wouldn't get mad at you.

    They got lucky they messed up in a way that doesn't impact realism (and so what I care about in a DLC) too much with the 313, possibly that's why those fixes are not a priority.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  36. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    still don't know why the 314 has regen brakes at all, they never had them
     
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  37. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Same with the 150/2. Has been left with appalling errors. We are not talking crazy picky stuff like ‘ flange sounds could be louder’ but fundamental, obvious and pretty disgraceful lack of research type errors.

    No one cares though - all I get back is ‘Rivet can see your feedback, No further updates at this time’. Couldn’t care a tuppence.
     
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  38. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Vote with your wallet people keep saying….. mines missed the last 4 routes now. I voted hard
     
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  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    And me. Almost tempted to get HSC despite the apparent physics issues but no, holding firm. Possibly make an exception for Scousy Steamy which will hopefully be preceded by a cartload of core updates to make it actually work. Everything else from Sursee onwards has gone into hiatus and that includes rebuying WCL.
     
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  40. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I'm holding tight too OldVern . All the issues are filtering out now
     
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