Edinburgh-glasgow Neutral Sections

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by jeremy#2905, Jan 27, 2023.

  1. jeremy#2905

    jeremy#2905 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2021
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    82
    I was excited to see neutral sections added into the game with the launch of the new DLC, but the implementation is lack lustre in my opinion based on 3 very important aspects relating to realism.
    1. No Catenary Detail:
    The first problem that I see with the neutral sections in the game is the way the catenary doesn't change whatsoever. No section isolators or feeders; it is a continuous wire. In real life neutral sections are completely isolated with an insulated bar. On each side of the magnets are different phases of the grid, and in the middle is usually a ceramic bar that completely isolates each side. I have linked an article that discusses neutral sections and where I have sourced a photo of a typical neutral section.
    PTFE-Neutral-Section2.png (https://www.railelectrica.com/traction-distribution/over-head-equipment-neutral-section/)

    2. Neutral Section Activates at the Wrong Point:
    The neutral sections in the game now activate at the start of the train and not at the pantograph car where it needs to be. The class 385 uses a bogie mounted magnetic resonance detector device which activates the open or close of the main switch when it runs over the wayside mounted magnets. This makes sense given that the pantograph needs to be disconnected from the train passing through the neutral section, but the current implementation closes the main switch before the pantograph has even gotten to the neutral section magnets. The screenshot I have attached shows the location of the wayside magnet detector mounted on the bogie below the pantograph.
    20230127194717_1.jpg

    3. No Sign Indicating Entrance to Neutral Section:
    The final problem I see with this is that there are no signs that indicate the entrance to the neutral section. I will admit I am not entirely familiar with Scottish rail but I know that in England they do have trackside signs indicating the approach to a neutral section. Without these signs it is difficult to be able to predict the approach to a neutral section and appropriately power down in anticipation for the main switch opening.
    [​IMG]
    (https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?129320-Looking-for-signs)

    It is great that this feature has finally been included but there a couple polishes that need to be made in order to bring up the level of realism.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
    • Like Like x 7
  2. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,510
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Why not copy the TSC system where a Tap changer UK locomotive if layered here Classes 80-90 need to be wound down then after the neutral section power up again
     
  3. jeremy#2905

    jeremy#2905 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2021
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    82
    I am not sure what you are trying to say should be implemented here? If there was a tap changer train in the game it too would "need" to power down before the neutral section and power up again after. The word need is a strong word to use, when in reality trains don't need to power down before they only should so as not to jerk the train upon instantaneous power down and power up. With a tap changer the logistics would be a bit different I would assume.
     
  4. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2020
    Messages:
    1,014
    Likes Received:
    1,676
    Thats not really relevant, the OP is commenting on how poorly the isolated sections have been implemented.

    It is however correct that a good driver may choose to move the throttle to zero when passing through a neutral section even though the train does it automatically. It makes for a smoother ride and prevents anything happening if for some reason the circuit breaker didn’t open.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2020
    Messages:
    1,014
    Likes Received:
    1,676
    Yeh you’re right. There should be a black sign with white lines on the approach to a neutral section and then a white sign with black lines at the start of a neutral section.
    The locations of course need to be memorised by all drivers anyway just like speed limits etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    Messages:
    3,120
    Likes Received:
    11,661
    Just FYI, Scotland is part of Britain.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2023
    • Like Like x 1
  7. aeronautic237

    aeronautic237 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2022
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    3,161
    You don't actually have to power down for the neutral sections - the Class 385 sorts everything out for you.
     
  8. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2020
    Messages:
    1,014
    Likes Received:
    1,676
    Correct although it is still taught in driver training as good practice in case the circuit breaker doesn't open. If it failed for some reason there would be a small chance that the pantograph would arc badly and damage the wires and pantograph. Even welding itself to the wires.

    It also gives a smoother ride as you don’t get a jolt when the traction motors kick back in. The latter is more of an issue with locomotive hauled stock rather than fixed units.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. aeronautic237

    aeronautic237 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2022
    Messages:
    3,272
    Likes Received:
    3,161
    Really?! Wow I didn't know that!
     
  10. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,476
    Likes Received:
    7,540
    Screenshooting this to a certain lady up north.Made me chuckle she thinks otherwise... anyhow, back to topic
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2021
    Messages:
    3,120
    Likes Received:
    11,661
    [removed by Protagonist - uncalled for]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2023
  12. jeremy#2905

    jeremy#2905 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2021
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    82
    Silly me getting England and Britain mixed up *facepalm*
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. jeremy#2905

    jeremy#2905 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2021
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    82
    I have been on trains where drivers have not powered down and it is a bit of a jolt. It is perfectly safe for the catenary equipment for a train to enter the section without powering down, but the jerk that it causes on the train causes stress on the drivetrain and depending on the acceleration rate could cause someone who has poor balance to stumble or fall over.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page