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Eurostar | London - Paris

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by ZeenozPlays, Jun 14, 2021.

  1. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Today, I am suggesting Eurostar for TSW 2.

    Most of the information can be found in this video.


    Eurostar is a Train Operating Company operating High-Speed Services across Europe. They run long-distance services, serving cities such as London, Paris, and Amsterdam. To cross the English Channel from the UK to greater Europe, Eurostar utilizes the Channel Tunnel.

    I am suggesting the route from London St. Pancras International to the Paris Nord station. The route would be over 300 Kilometers long (I know, a very long route), and it would contain 6 Stations.

    Between London St. Pancras and Ashford International, Eurostar runs with Southeastern. Specifically, Southeastern’s Southeastern High-Speed service. It also runs with SNCF’s TGV Services between Calais-Frethun and Paris. Maybe these services could be layered onto the route to provide more services, or to add more of a variety of train traffic.

    Rolling Stock

    [​IMG]
    Eurostar e300 - Class 373

    [​IMG]
    Eurostar e320 - Class 374

    What are your thoughts on this suggestion? I made this as more of a concept of a route, rather than a suggestion. While I know that this type of route is basically impossible with the current state of TSW, I would still like to see it come to the game eventually.
     
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  2. cxsmax#1736

    cxsmax#1736 Member

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    Cool that would be so cool to see international rail
     
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  3. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    Way too long - and also probably not that interesting - 2.5hrs on Cruise Control?
     
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  4. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    I would love this , but length and licensing are both issues . If the licence was obtained , it may be possible for DTG , Rivet and Skyhook to all do some of the route . Considering that dtg did LGV which is nearly 300KM long there’s a good chance that 3 developer companies could do this route
     
  5. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    There’s more to it than that
     
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  6. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    If DTG is able to get the license then SEHS will be combined with Eurostar Paris Gare Du Nord to St Pancras as London to Paris high speed pack. Same way as Frankfurt Am Main to Karlsruhe via Mannheim as Frankfurt High Speed for Train Sim 21 bundle. The second option for this is London to Amsterdam because if you were looking at the forums there are Dutch routes that can link with London to Amsterdam CS Eurostar route one of those is the Amsterdam Breda Line via Rotterdam CS. Introduces a new signalling system the Dutch ATB EG/NG. London to Paris only has the familiar KVB VACMA AWS TPWS DSD TVM-430. Also Eurostar London St Pancras to Paris Gare Du Nord can give LGV Mediterranean Line Avignon-Marsellie Eurostar services these are either class 374 Velaro UK or Class 373 TGV TSMT
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
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  7. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    The real challenge of the route is LGV Nord Fretin Triangle Gare Du Nord Section if a London St Pancras bound Eurostar gets behind a HRR bound TGV POS PBKA train either a separation must occur or stop at Haute Picardie Station to let the Haputstrecke Rhein-Ruhr bound TGV POS PBKA first then your turn. Also operations at Calais-Fréthun French side of the channel tunnel and United Kingdom Kent side Folkestone Dollands Moor you must hold for a Class 92 Channel tunnel Freight locomotive and Le Shuttle services with Lorries then proceed into the tunnel. Pretty much the Rush Hour version of High-Speed trains and furthermore Lille Europe or Calais-Fréthun be the link station between this route and LGV Mediterranean Line Avignon-Marsellie due to TGV Duplex services ending there from Marseille. Potentially give LGV Mediterranean Line Avignon-Marsellie Eurostar services to London St Pancras these call at Paris Disneyland Lille Europe then Last stop London St Pancras
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
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  8. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Member

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    I think this would be an awesome route and am not put off by that long tunnel. It builds anticipation and it's what real drivers have to face. This is a simulator, no?
     
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  9. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    sorry? DTG DID that? Last time i checked the LGV route was about 100 km long. I may missunderstood you?
     
  10. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry , because the Eurostar is 300km I accidentally said that lgv was that long - I meant that it is 93km
     
  11. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Don't have it on then. Just like how the game doesn't force you to have afb on
     
  12. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Of which a lot in a very long tunnel...

    I'm sorry to say it, but besides it not being realistic due to licensing and length, I also don't think it would be interesting, no matter how often it is requested.

    That is just a personal opinion however (and I do love the Eurostar trains), and I understand there are also many that would like to see a route going through the Channel tunnel.

    Personally though, if a Eurostar route is ever made, a section not including the Channel Tunnel would be best in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
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  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    This is something I would like and personally the full line as well. The issue I have with the current high speed routes in tsw2 is that they are way too short. Trains like the ICE 3, TGV and other high speed trains are also long distance trains. They are designed for long distance services at high speed, not 30-40 minute services on which dtg currently simulate. I feel like high speed routes need to be more than 110+ miles and services need to be more than an hour. We can't continue to get high speed routes that can be done in 30 minutes whilst traveling at high speed. That was the primary reason as to why I didn't buy LGV due to the simple fact that the route is way too short when services can be done in 30 minutes. Hopefully when new high speed routes are made we will no longer get high speed routes that are 30 minute services because that is not properly simulating a long distance high speed train when you are not traveling long distances. Yes I know that development time is the reason why we don't have 100+ mile routes yet, but tsw has been worked on for almost 5 years and you would think we would have 100 mile routes by now. Hopefully dtg will continue to work on ways to make longer routes (which players clearly want hence why autogen was created) because high speed routes will get boring if services can be done in 30 minutes
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
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  14. LodeStar

    LodeStar Member

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    In all honesty, scenery wise it is a boring route on the French side (and the tunnel obviously)...I've traveled on it numerous times. But operation wise it could be interesting. Especially if goods traffic and Le Shuttle services would be included! :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
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  15. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    If it doesn't have the channel tunnel then would it defeat the purpose of it being a international route in tsw2. Also it would make it a french only route. I guess some don't like driving in tunnels for a long time. I guess driving in a tunnel for 30 minutes boring for some but for others it's probably not considering how much Eurostar has been suggested. I guess the same people who don't like driving in tunnels wouldn't like flight simulators and doing an hour long flight especially at night since your 30,000 feet in the sky and only see clouds. I wonder if they think going on a flight is boring as well since you only see clouds, the ocean and some land. Personally I wouldn't mind it
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
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  16. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Well it's not a case of "will" it's a case of "could if they want to".
     
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  17. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    He probably put will by accident
     
  18. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I mean I'll give him the benefit of the doubt however the vast majority of his posts along these lines has "will" or "would" etc.
     
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  19. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    DTG can definitely do it, but it will not release all Eurostar routes at once. The first one should be London to Paris.
    As long as permission is obtained, DTG can allow Eurostar to enter the world of simulated trains.
    Please don't doubt whether they can do it. It is doubtful whether DTG is willing to do it after obtaining the license.
     
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  20. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Bad suggestion. Too long to be realistically achievable to make, and there has been plenty of topics where the Channel Tunnel obviously isn't something many people would be looking forward too. And that's even aside from licensing.

    Oh, and I'm not a fan of dedicated high speed lines anyways.
     
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  21. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Low priority for me. If very long routes are ever possible in TSW2, there are so many others with more stations, more variation in gameplay, and more interesting scenery than the Eurostar.
     
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  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't seem that dtg have even attempted to make a 100 mile route yet so we can't know if routes like these could be made if they don't try.
     
  23. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    As a commercial company, let alone 100 miles in front of profit, it will produce 200 miles regardless of time and cost.
    As long as DTG dares to do this, then I will definitely pay for their good luck, that is money.
     
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  24. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    I’d like to see Eurostar route in TSW2, but that doesn’t probably happen in near future due to:
    -licensing
    -route length (Eurostar route would require even 300km length, which is currently difficult to develop.)
     
  25. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really thrilled about this suggestion. While I love High Speed, I want to have a route which can feature both high speed and regional services as well as freight. Most german routes deliver this perfectly (eg. HMA). But the LGV doesn't - one train, mostly 2 straight tracks, 3 stations, go from A to B, that's all. No variety of trains, nothing really to just sit there and watch the action happen. While the TGV is a brillantly and well done train in TSW, i fear it get's a bit boring to just have this one train all over the route. The Eurostar would be nothing else than this: One train overall, no variety of services, no freight, no commuter, no back and forth and left and right - just straight operation from A to B. Also also 30 minutes through a tunnel? No thank you, this really doesn't sound like a good DLC decision.
     
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  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well actually this route does have freight in the form of the euro tunnel shuttle. Trucks and cars board the train to take them across the tunnel to or from England and France. Freight is also transported on this service. Also there are two trains on the eurostar network, not one. Class 373 and Class 376. The class 373 is a much older high speed train while the 376 is a more modern high speed train. Along with one freight train which is the Eurotunnel Class 9 locomotive. Also isn't pretty much every railroad and rail line a to b services. Train starts at a and terminates at b. That's how rail lines are including freight lines bud
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  27. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Okay so your only argument is: There is freight, but it is just in the Eurotunnel? The same Eurotunnel, where many people (at least that's what I have learned) have said: I don't want to drive 30 mins straight through a tunnel? So you say "There you go, drive 30 mins or even longer straight through a tunnel, but with a freight train"?

    No, i think you've missunderstood me. What I say is, that a route is very interesting from my point of view - your point of view can of course be another one - when you have something network like, where you have the abillity to choose in the timetable between different trains, different lines with different start and terminus points and different operation. The Eurostar route is just one line, one kind of operation (two, considering your freigh suggestion) and that's it.

    Okay so to recap: We want to have a more than 300 km route, with the train classes e320 and e300, which are completely different and new trains with different interiors, at least one freight loco which hauls the freight trains through the not so exciting Eurotunnel and of course at least one new type of freight cars? And this all for the same 30 Euros as always? Sounds a little bit too much for me.
    Don't get me wrong - the Eurostar trains are beautiful and I'd love to drive them. But their route and the overall timetable just doesn't sound that interesting for me.
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Even in a network type system it's still a to b runs. That's how rail lines are. For example you start at Glasgow Central which is a and the service goes to newton which is b. That's an a to b run. Even if there are different patterns to a service they are still a to b runs. That's how railroads work.
     
  29. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    There is one more locomotives missing Class 92 for Calais-Fréthun Barking yards services. If the freight train is loaded with British loading gauge wagons or Car Transporters then Class 92 Calais-Fréthun to Coventry/Leeds services
     
  30. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ohh I forgot about the 92
     
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  31. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Active Member

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    I have always wanted the 373 Eurostar in the game.
     
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  32. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Active Member

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    Power Changes for the E300 (373) Eurostar:
    London St Pancras to Paris Gare Du Nord:
    1. HS~ 25Kv AC on British High Speed Lines (HS1) to EuroTunnel 25Kv AC (ET~).
    2. EuroTunnel 25Kv AC to Grande Vitesse 25Kv AC on French High Speed Lines (GV~).
    3. Grande Vitesse 25KV AC to 25Kv AC on French Standard Lines, passing through Lille. GV~ to F~
    4. F~ 25Kv AC on French Standard Lines to Grande Vitesse 25Kv AC (GV~).
    5. Grande Vitesse 25Kv AC to F~ 25Kv AC, Classic Line into Paris Gare Du Nord.

    London St Pancras to Brussels Midi:
    1. HS~ 25Kv AC on British High Speed Lines (HS1) to EuroTunnel 25Kv AC (ET~).
    2. EuroTunnel 25Kv AC to Grande Vitesse 25Kv AC on French High Speed Lines (GV~).
    3. Grande Vitesse 25KV AC to 25Kv AC on French Standard Lines, passing through Lille. GV~ to F~
    4. F~ 25Kv AC on French Standard Lines to Grande Vitesse 25Kv AC (GV~).
    5. Grande Vitesse 25Kv AC to Belgium 3000V DC (B=) on Classic line into Brussels Midi.

    Voltages:
    F= -
    French 1500V DC on French Classic Lines.

    B=
    - Belgium 3000V DC on Classic Line in Brussels Midi.

    F~
    - French 25Kv AC on French Standard Lines, passing though Lillie Europe and Classic Line into Paris Gare Du Nord.

    GV~
    - Grande Vitesse 25Kv AC on French High Speed Lines (LGV Nord/Belgium High Speed Line 1).

    ET~
    - EuroTunnel (Channel Tunnel) 25Kv AC.

    BR=
    - British 750 DC Third Rail Supply (not used anymore).

    HS~
    - British 25Kv AC on High Speed 1 (HS1).

    BR~ - British 25Kv AC on Standard British Lines (used by Eurostar’s on ECML for GNER).

    Signalling Systems:
    AWS/TPWS
    = High Speed 1.

    KVB = French Classic Lines (Classic Line into/out of Paris Gare Du Nord), on approach to London St Pancras.

    TVM = French High Speed Lines (LGV Nord and Belgium High Speed Line 1) and HS1.

    TBL = Classic Line between Brussels Midi and Belgium High Speed Line 1 (HSL1), similar to AWS.

    VACMA = Used throughout the whole journey, alerts (checks) the driver’s progress.
     
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  33. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    The reason why it has long shape is that electric locomotives operating on the channel tunnel must have duplicated electrical systems to reduce the risk of failure inside the tunnel.
    Here's a video by Rails of Kent from June 2020 of Class 92 Channel tunnel medial container train
     
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  34. moczs_65

    moczs_65 Member

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    Sorry but this is WAY too long for this game.
     
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  35. LodeStar

    LodeStar Member

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    Don't forget these units, Eurotunnel Class 0001, (some of them former Dutch Railways), MaK DE1004 model! For emergency services as well as special services!
    [​IMG]
     
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  36. dasmith1

    dasmith1 Active Member

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    Eurostar will NEVER come to TSW2, route is just too long, productive time would/could be 12 months or more to be built (prediction). Not sure how PC and Console would cope with the route.
     
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  37. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a big fan of the route and it would be really nice to have this route, but it depends on if DTG wants to make that long route, I don't have a problem with it, because I love really long routes, but if this route would get added to TSW, would it give any problems for console players?
     
  38. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Eurostar and Thalys that are gonna be merged when they’ll surpass the crisis are both really hard to give a licence even though the SNCF has the majority of takes in both companies and I know what I’m talking about as I’m an SNCF employee it’s hard to ask them the simplest thing so we won’t see that happening sadly
     
  39. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    In the Netherlands these locomotives are known as the NS6400 locomotives. Even my Suggestion Duisburg Oberhausen-Arnhem Railway gets them in Triple formation. These locomotives are equipped with Scharfenburg Couplers perfectly suited to do a Drag Line scenario for Eurostar Channel Tunnel segment
     
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  40. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Unlikely because Eurostar hate licensing and will never give it. Also driving 20 min in the channel tunnel on cruise control isn’t going to be the definition of enjoyable?
     
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  41. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Who else is to be asked for Thalys license other than SNCF? DB or SNCB?
     
  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    SNCB
     
  43. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Thalys is 60% SNCF and 40% SNCB/NMBS and Eurostar is 55% SNCF and 5% SNCB/NMBS and you have to ask for Hermès and Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec. So that’s why it’s impossible for them to give licence
     
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  44. rhyttik

    rhyttik Active Member

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    Zeenoz I like your videos but Eurostar won't come its too long plus no one wants to be stuck in a tunnel for 31 miles
     
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  45. rhyttik

    rhyttik Active Member

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    btw dovetail games has confirmed no eurostar
     
  46. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    So in the case of Eurostar DTG must ask SNCF SNCB/NMBS CDPQ which is part of the Quebec provincial government and Hermès infrastructure based in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania nearest in game route for them is SPG for the Licence. Basically the Pittsburgh Baltimore main line via Cumberland, MD.
    If a third-party developer something like Skyhook Games or Just Trains has the Eurostar license then they can make this route. Then DTG does LGV 1 Fretin Triangle to Brussels Midi where it can link up with a future DTG forums requested route Brussels to Aachen 121 kms
     
  47. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    It’s more complicated because Eurostar is kinda “Independent” even though it’s owned by the SNCF and SNCB/NMBS and as the route was removed from Just Trains and every screenshots were showing the class 373 unbranded without the Eurostar logo so I suspect they don’t have the licence ( btw you don’t need it if it’s free but that’s not the case here )
     

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