On the one hand, this does interest me since I don't own the 101, but on the other hand, players who already own the DB BR 101 will essentially have to rebuy this locomotive just to get the cabcar and some extra features that arguably should've been there from the beginning considering that the Locomotive is already well made. What are your thoughts?
Honestly don’t mind buying another 101 as it’s going to be an ‘Expert‘ version and comes with a cab car. I don’t argue that the new features should have been there from the start. It was already better than most other German locos in my opinion. I’ve had more hours of play from the original 101 than any other loco, so it’s been good value for money. If it’s as good as it seems then it’s worth it for me. It’s TSG which generally means excellent quality so probably a day one purchase. I’d have been happy just having the cab car, but with all the extra expert features, I think I’ll play this a lot.
Depends what the extra features are on the 101 and how good the cab car sounds are. However without a decent discount for pre-existing owners this will be going on the 50% off at sale time list.
I will probably buy it for full price as long as it isn't too expensive, I like the idea of expert locos. Hopefully if it sells well DTG will consider doing an expert Class 91, the higher price should make up for the fact it effectively has 3 cabs
looks like it is going to have some stuff with active screen... for me this is day one, maybe even pre-order... and hoping we get a decent manual for the expert features should start saving, since 218 is coming too, then LIRR...
with the expert features I definetely will gladly rebuy it since it's a completely different product. even with it being an increased price of 20 or 25 euro's max. I would like a loyalty discount though since having the non expert loco means I have a 14 euro paperweight since I won't be using a "basic" loco if I can select what on the expert I want to be expert or not. for layers and making routes I do wonder how they will interact. my route has the 101 and cab car. for all players I'd like to both use the basic and expert loco on their respective services. The cab car being only with the expert makes that difficult. or for example the possible longer startup time and maybe different physics and speed characteristics. I am really interested what the plans are officially to get this working and how I should approach this knowing this future issue is coming. I hope someone from TSG or DTG's dev team reads this and has some answers or ideas. For this only question I can't say how glad I am expert rolling stock is finally coming to TSW. How difficult the development might be, I see this as a great step forward and cannot wait on more news and updates.
No problem for me. The Bpmbdzf alone is already worth the price of the ticket. I no longer plan to use the old DB 101 when this new model is released.
I wonder if it will come with things like manually connectable brake hoses and interactable angle cocks. I don't expect it to come with manual hoses though I think it would be cool if it did, but I believe a few locos in game have usable angle cocks already
If I had to pick a dev to do a ‘Pro’ loco then it would be TSG, I think if anyone is going to make a case for reselling a loco, it would be TSG that could pull it off. The 101 is a very good piece of kit which unlike a lot of earlier TSW content, has stood the test of time without any updates to it at all over the years. Whilst I have faith in the product from a technical view, I will be looking for opportunities to use the 101 being expanded. As it stands the 101 does not have a lot of use at all, most services with it being a handful of 20 minute runs on the odd German route. TSW 4 has seen the line ‘make use of it on X route with scenario planner/free roam’ too many times already. A more expensive & expanded loco pack will need to have a good level of usability along with it.
It's not just some extra features. It's basically brand new considering all the stuff coming with such as the cab car and a bunch of other content. It's like an AP version of a train but even better cuz it's tsg
Saw it on the roadmap stream and mention the functional switches. I wonder will this substitute for the old one or not
they haven't said but I just checked the TSC store page on steam and their pro range of rolling stock is 20 euro's per loco. so I am hoping it is 20. I haven't played those and no idea if the TSW expert collection will be including more stuff. for example the engine room and air hoses. I wouldn't mind paying 25 or if it also includes a cab car 30. we are then getting towards route prices though
Okay - after over a year of disappointment from Dovetail ... the expert 101 caught my curiosity. Now they have to deliver. Don't expect me to buy it right away, but if the feedback hints to a working thing without frustrating bugs, I will buy.
Does Expert also infer a working Ebula screen? I'll probably buy this anyway, as I like the current 101 a lot, but that would be the icing on the cake.
Has it been confirmed anywhere what route this is launching on? All the screenshots are on Rosenheim, but that means nothing without a confirmation, I would think.
Not gonna lie but i just cant see this pricing justified in any sort or form. Still, as i dont really know whats coming, I'll await the official statement and see what the whole package can offer. An expert 101 plus Cab Car plus new timetable (on existing aswell as on older routes) would put it closer to the 20 mark for me personally. Im also a bid mad that they hiding the cab car behind this. Feels like they trying to force the success of this expert version because they know how big the dand for it is.... Time will tell i guess. Thank you for the clarification on the TSC pricing front
Expert Line, wow didnt expect this. Day One from my side, the more realistic the better, also willing to pay for all the extra features. Nice
Have watched the Roadmap Stream and have to say, i may have underestimated what expert loco meant. If it really comes in a package like Matt said we are probably in for a treat. Now im more concerned if im actually able to drive it. My knowledge is quite limited in that regard, so a solid manual would be helpful.
I want to know more details but this is something I will most likely buy on day one, even though I already have the original 101. We already know the quality of TSG and if I have to pay more for it I will gladly do so. I'd rather have something like this, with great detail and challenging to drive, than the same old same old that will bore me in no time. I will definitely support such initiatives in the future if it is something worthwhile.
Wanted to give praise to TSG for bringing the requested cab car for the 101 very happy they included it, definitely a big selling point of the 101 and whilst I’m quite in the unknown on what Expert will change to TSW as it is I look forward to finding out when the time is ready. I think it’s fair to those who currently own the 101 and wish to buy the expert one, as not necessarily buying the same 101 again but purchasing the cab car which development and game wise will be another train along with a large upgrade to the 101.
So I'm a confused American. Is this the cab car that should of been included with the DB101 or is this an entire new thing? And why is it call expert
Well essentially it's a DB BR 101 but with more features that are supposed add to the simulation. As for the cabcar, DB intercity services have both the db br 101 and a cabcar however DTG didn't make the cabcar for the 101 when it originally came out. The cabcar should've been included when it came but never did until now
What I immediately noticed is that the „Zugdaten Eingabe“ is incorrect, because on the 101 it is located on the rear wall in the driver's cab and not in the mfd like on the br145.
It is located either on the left back-wall (MFA variant) or inside the screen (ETCS/MFD variant). The developers of this are not confused about that, but maybe there was a misunderstanding on DTGs side. Although the roadmap article is quite clear (and correct) on how it will work.
And that price is only for expert line stuff on Steam. Theres a big number of advanced TSC stock from 3rd Partys in the 30-40€ price range. For comparison theres a IC 1 set from 3D Zug for ~30€ with a terrible cab car model and no loco, even if it has a variety of coach types. In TSW well get a cab car, 2 variants 101s and at least the two IC coaches we already have while being more advanced than its TSC counterpart as it sounds, so could be the same deal or similar. Or If a railjet ever comes, the one for tsc costs 40+€
Very excited for this. I certainly got my money’s worth from the original 101 and I’m perfectly willing to pay for the announced features. This sounds spot on like what I wanted the expert loco DLCs discussed in the survey to be like. The inclusion of the engine room alone already has me excited, never mind all of the other amazing features.
above 30 I'm gonna rethink buying an expert loco. even though I would love to have all loco's I play as expert loco's, the speed of releases and the amount of unfixed bugs in routes makes me want to see how a product looks before I spend on it. But the idea of getting expert loco's is already amazingly positive to me.
true that. Although I would say TOD3/4 loco's and routes don't interact very well with eachother it wouldn't suprise me if they keep the old one and get the expert one on all newer routes. I hope this doesn't become another "just use free roam because we can't take a week to put it in properly." if it straight up replaces the old 101 I would be fine with it if there is some loyalty discount. But this is all hypothetical thinking. nobody knows what the final product will look like. if there will be bugs and how it will add into excisting and new services. if it takes over all "basic 101" services I will ofc uninstall the basic one. If there is a some routes the basic and some the expert I suppose I'm investing in a bigger SSD.
I share the same opinion. If the EBuLa screen would be a thing, they had mentioned it as one of its characteristics in the roadmap article. I also think that the EBuLa system requires a more profund functionality to the core game because it depends on the routes and their specific spots a lot. I doubt that any loco developer could single-handedly do this feature without a respective port functionality from DTG. Edit: I just watched the livestream and at 1:08:54 Matt couldn't answer the question whether it has a working EBuLa or not. So there is still hope though.
Years ago I remember buying the “Ready For Pushback” 747 for Flight Simulator. It was anything but ready, took me half an hour to get three engines started then another half an hour trying to spool up the fourth. “We apologise for the delay, but Captain Vern is a moron.”
I like the concept. It sounds very appealing but I doubt it will live up to its expectations. This community is filled with experts so if DTG is going for an Expert Series they better make it true to life. Can't make too many mistakes when you tag it as Expert. I'm no train expert but when I hear a higher price tag also for me expectations also go up. For me it will mostly come down to performance and audio quality when I need to pay more for a loco. Areas I feel TSW has improved but did not reach expert mode yet.
TBH, I would not have a problem with a price above 30€. I don’t think it’s quite as much time needed as for a whole route, however, it will certainly not attract as much paying customers and will remain a bit of a niche product. Hence, the revenue will be less and the developers somehow want to be paid as well.
Knowing who is involved in the development of this and that cwf_green and TSG have teamed up for this, I do have to admit, my expectations are also very high, but I would also believe that the chances we will get what we expect could not be higher then with this combo…
I'm definitely very much intrigued, but will take a wait and see approach. Big plus is of course the 101 cab car. The 'expert' controls seem interesting and will certainly boost immersion. But I hope they did not make it so difficult that it becomes unpratical. I assume the player will need more time to set up the train correctly, so I wander if the player will receive this extra time at the beginning of services. If not, you'll always be late and lose points because of that. I know they said you can 'turn off' the expert controls, and drive it in the standard DTG way, but than you would end up buying a cab car at a very high price. And that price is another important thing. Imo price for standard loco dlc's is already pretty much up there, so if this ends up costing 25EUR or more, I will definitely be waiting for sale.
I'm also interested about the price range they think it fits into and how they define a "higher price point" exactly. "To set expectations, with the inclusion of these advanced features, enthusiasts can expect a higher price point reflective of the Expert locomotive category." Personally, I really do appreciate the idea getting something like an expert loco into the game (although it was not my choice in the player survey - I chose "route extensions" instead). I think an elevated price tag can indeed be justified, but if - and only if - the functionality and playability is really enhanced a lot. To speak for me personally, I wouldn't willing to pay more than 45€ (full asking price) for a single loco - I don't necessarily admire, independent of its features. I also concern about that if the price would be set too high, only less people would buy it and therefore risk the continuation of the developement of expert locos in general. DTG really should think good about the price point. Otherwise and unfortunately completely independent of its good features, it may become a shopkeeper and we will see no other expert locos like that in the future.
agreed. although an expert loco would be a lot of fun and would add a lot of extra playtime. I loved the EP's for the 101 and 401 a lot and played them mostly at the end of tsw3. the GSMR on the ICE1 was amazing with the custom lines. I would argue route extensions are a better choice. since 30 minutes express services feel really short. even some branch lines are cool too. The price is something that really makes or breaks this product. I can't wait for another progress update.
The term expert here refers to the focus of an expert simulation. The innovations include new sound, driving behavior and additional simulation aspects, such as all functioning or usable displays, systems etc. So there is significantly more programming effort than with standard content. The engine room is also now accessible. The exterior of the 3D model of the locomotive should be the same as the one from HRR. The HRR version, which is still very good, is still tied to the HRR route. That's why a new 101 would also be a more independent DLC, whose tutorials would be anchored in the Training Center. The goal is to have all locomotive or train DLCs run tutorials in the Training Center, regardless of routes (with the exception of narrow-gauge railways). But what also speaks for a new 101 DLC is the IC control car that so many fans have requested. It would also be great if the Expert 101 could be exchanged with the HRR 101 in timetable mode, as the 101 is layered on almost all German TSW routes. But layering push-pull capable ICs with control cars on all routes would be a lot of work, which is why we have the free roam mode and scenario planner. Such reversible ICs are determined for routes with terminal stations, like Munich. These big stations rely on push-pull trains, as locomotive changes are too time-consuming.
I rather not have to use free roam to use the cab car I paid for. I would understand it if it's more work to have it layer onto services without a cab car and therefore only will be on newer routes or timetable reworks. I hope it will be researched where cab cars were used and where they weren't. I don't want a standard only 101 with IC and cab car at the end everywhere because spending a day or two on vagonweb.cz takes too much time from a dev team. 101 services also drove as sandwich services with a loco on each end occasionally for example.
If they're gonna reuse anything from the existing DLC they really should offer a discount for existing owners. It might be good, but paying full price for a 3D model you already own's just kind of a big middle finger to anyone who already owns it. If they're gonna charge 25+ with no discount for it a new 3D model should be a reasonable expectation.
Yes, I can see how this might be the case. But i do think the opportunity for an eBula-lite may be possible, using the timetable data already in the system (like the Azuma does, or at least tries to!). If that was formatted in the eBula style, it could be an interim thing that was easily acheivable, leaving core update stuff for a later date. At least it wouldn't leave us with a blank screen!
If somebody wants to know, in what direction to prepare and what might come: https://vdoc.pub/download/richtlinie-4930101-triebfahrzeuge-bedienen-baureihe-101-3sv9o8v3ohp0
If they struggled to get average Joe punters to purchase and engage with steam locos then this may well end up being an evolutionary dead end as well. A shame as I suspect the community will be excited for this where the other 90% of non-community players will just think it's expensive, complicated and not for them.
In fact, this was an idea I had too and raised it in some of the livestreams, but ever failed to make an official suggestion for it. Really annoying always enabling the HUD and press T. Would be so much better have these data on the EbuLa Screen at least.
