Other Feedback Thread - Tees Valley Line Update

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by DTG JD, Apr 4, 2022.

  1. DTG JD

    DTG JD Staff Member

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    Hello folks,

    After a lot of discussion about last week's Preservation Crew update, we wanted to open up a feedback thread to gather your thoughts on any further potential improvements or issues that have emerged as a result of the update.

    Please submit feedback below - we're particularly interested in hearing from you on:
    • How the track looks on console post-update
    • 2 cars on Class 101 DMU - This change was made due to research that suggested that during the time period the route was set on (~1989), all units had lost their centre coaches on cost and maintenance grounds, and technical limitations around custom liveries meant that it was a straight choice between 2 or 3 cars for the train
    • Lost medals as a result of the update - NOTE: if you have lost medals as a result of the update, we recommend that you do not try to regain them. We are working on a fix to reinstate lost medals, and any progress gained between the update and the fix being released may be lost.
    Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  2. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I can't comment on the other aspects but I will say I support the change from 3-Car to 2-Car units. I prefer the traction and rolling stock to be as prototypical as possible.
     
  3. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    As I have already posted, the track looks terrible now that there are issues with flickering of the textures ahead. Compare this to a later route, such as WCL and it is a world of difference. Even compared to NTP which hasn’t had the update the track renders fine on that route. I believe it is much worse than it was before the update. At the very least I would expect that whatever has been done to the track should now be reversed and have it reverted to how it was before the update. It has ruined the route.
     
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  4. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    In the class 31 journey the first scenario: stuck at red signal when you are told to go back to Tees quite at the end. Tried three times but didn't write down the signal number ;-)
     
  5. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    PC player here, but I see flickering on the tracks too. Sleepers are rendered only a coach's length in front of the train, and that's where the flickering begins. Sleepers nearer to the train are rendered fine.

    20220404185852_1.jpg

    Ideally we'd have a more flexible substitution system so a player could still use 3 car consists if he wants to. Having a middle car is what made the TVL 101 different from the NTP 101 and, back then, was one of the selling points of the DLC. I guess, you could also have provided an alternative timetable (similar to the ECW Class 313 copy+paste timetable because of the same substitution limits), so nothing had to be taken away from the player.

    I'm not using any custom liveries and I think it's that's not a valid reason to remove the 3 car consist.

    I seem to have lost all the medals on Class 37 and Class 31 services. I'm sure I had some.
    I still have a number of medals on Class 08, Class 20 and Class 101 services, but as I don't remember how many I had, I'm unsure I lost any.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
  6. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    Your request for feedback about the appearance of the track implies that nobody has bothered to plug in a PlayStation or xbox and have a look. It's a rippling, sparkling, shimmering effect which occurs all the time a short distance ahead of the player. Yes, it also occurs if you are on foot and stationary. Up in the steelworks yard where the track ballast is black, there are bits of ballast which turn grey as you approach. I did a run on tsw2020 and the track definitely looks worse after the update.

    2 car DMUs. Not really bothered. It's more realistic and we've got three car ones in Diesel Legends.

    Lost medals. Again, not a massive concern for me, although it will be for many. I know I've done all the freight services.

    The appearance of the track is the main concern for me and the installation of "Rush Hour" passengers. I don't think it's really appropriate for this route which succeeded very well at portraying a run down, lightly used BR line. And why do so many of them have orange moustaches or plastic looking gloss finish hair? A slider would be useful so those who enjoy hordes of zombies can knock themselves out and those of us who don't can turn them off.
     
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  7. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    IMG_20220403_193953.jpg This signal at Darlington has not been lit since day one either. D895 I think it is.
     
  8. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    The track rendering is so stark because the sleepers are a lighter colour. The moire effect when driving as the render is done is very distracting and noticeable. The render starts just at the point where the natural eye level looking ahead would be, it is a total destroyer of what has been a very good route.
    There is also a lot of pattern interference happening in the distance which hasn’t been there before. Something that’s been coming up on newer routes more and more.

    The 3 car model class 101 may not be totally prototypical, but it is set apart from NTP for having it. I believe prototypically NTP should be the route with 3 car class 101s. However it is the variety that is important to game play for me as someone who wants to enjoy what the world of trains has. Similar to ECW losing its 8 car sets, it makes the route more monochrome to play. The idea that the 3 car is still in the diesel legends is disingenuous, as that is a very unprototypical pack. And actually I bought TVL for the enjoyment of a different 101 from NTP which I also enjoy. Now it’s not different. Value has been taken away.

    The pis seems static. That’s ok but the screens don’t relate to the platform they are on sometimes. The timings on the display go through the day and then randomly display earlier times.
    Trains that have already departed don’t seem to come off the list at all.

    The sky box looks good.

    the crossing gates work well for me.

    would have liked the update to tackled a few bugs. There’s an unlit signal in Darlington heading north that can be a spad point as it is sometimes red with a recently departed train.

    Can’t comment on medals as I don’t take much note of getting them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  9. Luvvy Duvvy

    Luvvy Duvvy Member

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    I have the following "duo" of observations regarding the change to 2-car Class 101s:

    1. TVL was originally marketed on the basis that it included a 3-car Class 101, explicitly to differentiate it from the 2-car Class 101 on NTP. This was a key selling point at the time. Customers were told that this would be "preserved" under TSW 2.
    2. TVL is still marketed (to new TSW 2 customers) on the basis that it includes a 3-car Class 101 - this is in the current product description (!!), but this is now untrue. TVL is currently being mis-marketed on all platforms, under TSW 2 (and implicitly, under TSW 2020's TVL DLC). The manual on Steam includes an image of a 3-car set.

    I have the following "trio" of suggestions:

    i) Perhaps all of those people that bought TVL expecting to get a trio-car DMU should now get some sort of automatic refund..?
    ii) If authenticity is really the reason for the removal of this part of the product, then maybe the trio-car DMU could be included as an option for the
    "unrealists" - although the true "realists" would probably expect a quad-car DMU on this route, with two driving cabs and two intermediate coaches. Not that I am an expert, or anything. To lose one coach could be regarded as a misfortune... but to lose two coaches seems like carelessness....!
    iii) If the removal of the trio-car DMU was indeed intentional, then perhaps the product description for TVL (under TSW 2) should be amended to indicate that only the duo-car DMU is now available - and under TSW 2020 a note should be made that the trio-car DMU will not become available to TSW 2020 players that subsequently buy TSW 2. The manual will need to be amended, wherever it is published.

    This used to be one of the best routes available in TSW 2. Now it isn't. Perhaps the update should now be rolled back to the previous version? I think that this is likely to be the easiest option for now. And maybe next time Adam could get some soundings during the "Roadmaps" that he appears on before radically cutting the content of a DLC (including the scenario at the depot...?) .... and making the product much worse. Perhaps Adam will rename the team as the "Train Scrapping Crew"...?
     
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  10. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Active Member

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    I've not had chance to download the update yet but given how much I love this route I'm a bit worried.

    I agree there has to be a balance between gameplay variety and being prototypical and I'm all for fixing things to make a route as prototypical as possible but not at the expense of variety of gameplay. I'd have no argument if the route had been like this from day 1 and perhaps a different choice would be made if the route had been made now, but it wasn't.

    It's true that the t&c's say that functionality can be removed but unless there is a genuine reason (licensing or copyright etc.) then removing gameplay and marketing it as an improvement is the wrong choice in my view. DTG have used alternative timetables to get round similar issues in the past, so why not use one this time to keep both sets of fans happy?

    I love 95% of what the presentation crew do and the value they add to the game but this feels a step too far I'm afraid.
     
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  11. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Just had a run on TVL, the first since the update was released. I can definitely see where the complaints are coming from in regards to the flickering on the track. The flickering is distracting and as others have said, right in your line of sight, do you can’t miss it. Personally, for me it isn’t terrible, but if the flickering can be resolved that would be great.
     
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  12. thomastl59374

    thomastl59374 Well-Known Member

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    I like that the change t 2-car is authentic but it still feels like I've had something taken away. It would be nice if the 3 car was an option to choose when selecting a service and if possible still wouldn't effect the AI. Driving the 3-car set was a nice change from the 2-car set on NTP. At the very least it would be nice to have available on WSR.
    Also I have noticed that the NTP 101 has found its way into the loco selection for TVL so it kind of undos the change for authenticity.
     
  13. Luvvy Duvvy

    Luvvy Duvvy Member

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    I was very pleased to hear that the decision to remove the "trio-car 101" from TVL has been reversed, and will be making a return. Thanks go to Adam for perservering and for "preserververing".... ;-)
     
  14. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I guess that's nice for those of us who liked the 3 car 101, but less nice for those who liked the 2 car 101.

    I have said it before, but will say it again. It'd be awesome if the substitution system would be more flexible, that'd solve these kinds of problems. Any timetable suitable for a 3 car 101 would be very well achievable by the shorter and faster 2 car 101.
     
  15. davebadger#4587

    davebadger#4587 Member

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    The achievement for getting all collectables doesn't unlock. Playing on xbox series x.
     
  16. hells.high.lord666

    hells.high.lord666 Active Member

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    Being from Teesside I don't remember ever seeing a three car set of any DMU from then until now, they've always been two car units that they couple to four car units if the need requires! As for the update it seems to me on series S that only about half of it actually works. Spawning in on foot at night on a station with PIS and your given a list of the trains in the morning, not the services for the time you spawn in. I tried at two stations to climb the platforms along their entire length and couldn't so that update hasn't worked and the masteries not appearing as stated in the update notes is another part that failed ( masteries don't seem to be working properly anyway.) The 101 being made livery creator comparable creates it's own issues as it now seems that we have to do the same livery on two separate units if we want a certain livery to appear on TVL as well as DLGW and NTP.
     
  17. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    150s were operating in the area by 1989 so it's a shame that the 150 wasn't ported over as an option to drive.
     
  18. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    They weren't used on the Tees Valley Line though
     
  19. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe not but the 142/143 definitely was and until we get them it would be nice, The 150 definitely got as far as Hull so it's entirely possible one or two got as far as Saltburn
     
  20. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure the 150s weren't actually allowed to be used on the Tees Valley Line or something. Someone will know better than me on that one.
     
  21. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    Quite possibly. Possibly gauge clearance or something.
     
  22. hells.high.lord666

    hells.high.lord666 Active Member

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    Didn't have 150's on Teesside that I remember. We went from the 1XX DMU's straight over to the 14X pacers. We've only started getting 15x series DMU's around here in the last few years since they decided to retire the Pacers. Hated the Pacers with a passion but really missed the crap ride first time I rode a 156/8 after the Pacers were gone!
     
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  23. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Haven’t driven much since the update, but what I can say is the job on the 101 livery designer is superb.
     
  24. PeteW

    PeteW Member

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    Not sure what is going on with the PIS but definitely has a bug or two. Have a video - let me know if DTG want to see it as not sure best place to put it. Anyway...
    Explore on Foot in Darlington in June @ 12.10. 12.13 train to Middlesbrough waiting to leave from platform 2. PIS shows it and the next 2 trains at12.28 and 12.29 to Saltburn on platform 4 (that is in itself likely wrong as 1 minute apart and from the northbound platform 4 - Saltburn opposite way).Other destinations e.g. Bishop Auckland are shown.
    Ensure you can see a PIS and when the 12.13 train leaves, about 15 secs later, all departures change to Saltburn and depature times all change.
    Takes a few minutes to reproduce. So shouldn't be a killer to fix.
     
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  25. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    The track looks much better after the update to the update. Nice to see the signals at Darlington lit up as well.
     
  26. EXE Sasser

    EXE Sasser New Member

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    I'll do this in capitals as it seems to be an issue that STILL NEEDS TO BE FIXED.


    SIGNAL TY553 IN THE TANK TROUBLE SCENARIO STAYS RED REGARDLESS OF HOW LONG YOU WAIT. THIS OCCURS AFTER YOU'VE REMOVED THE FAULTY TANKER FROM THE TRAIN AND RECOUPLED UP

    YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PASS THIS SIGNAL THROUGH TEES VALLEY YARD TO PROGRESS FURTHER THROUGH THIS SCENARIO.
     
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  27. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Likewise Chopper And Change, still broken. Once you push the defective wagons through the workshop and detach, you come up against a GPL at danger which you can't Tab past as it states section ahead occupied, when it patently isn't.
     
  28. Yoinkermcskoinker

    Yoinkermcskoinker Well-Known Member

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    Only the 101 got livery designer in this update... Everything on TVL should have had livery designer compatibility when this route was updated.
     
  29. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    As an aside, could ECW possibly get whatever was done to fix the track on TVL? It has a similar but far less pronounced version of the same issue, which is not quite as bad but definitely stands out more after experiencing it on TVL before the latest patch.
     
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  30. argh.bailey

    argh.bailey Member

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    Some of the services for the 2 car unit are showing as Darlington - Saltburn with a duration of ~30 minutes but when you start the run, the timetable ends at Middlesborough. In the livery picker I also have about 5 - 6 different versions of the 101 to pick between. The 2 & 3 car + a few other versions but the description really doesn't indicate what they are.
     
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  31. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

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    There's this, at Saltburn TSW2_Coppo_1651517959_00.png ...
     
  32. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone finished the tutorial in the journey for the Chopper? I think you had to unload coal and everytime it fails successfully.
    I lost the screenshot but will take a new one later and post it here
    Edit: Found & attached screenshot

    20220407194902_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2022
  33. Woroszyl The NS 2000

    Woroszyl The NS 2000 Active Member

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    Small layer bug: Since the TVL Preservation Update, TVL 2 car 101 can't layer on WCL, is it supposed to be like that?
     
  34. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    The Two car TVL 101 is available in Livery editor so I wonder if that's got something to do with it.
     
  35. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Well-Known Member

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    The platfrom pis doesn’t work well on this route

    Class 101 Train pis too blurry unless too close (also noticed on Class 387)

    and all the pis screens have some sort of light strike through them

    Quite common Glowing passengers noticed (varying degrees of brightness from slight to almost eye hurting)

    -my thoughts on number of cars-

    i think with tees valley set in 1989 2 car seems to have the logic

    whereas NTP in 1983 seems to have logic for 3 cars

    -track feedback-

    track seems smooth (40mph ish)
    Only issue noticed is a sort of shadow closely follows the train in front on left side track metal (pretty sure this is general quirk on all routes)

    (70mph)
    track ahead seems smooth compared to old times of where it would seem like it builds itself in front

    not sure on how accurate chrome colour for track is but if it’s accurate then it works (I pick up this point as I’ve known this area for at least the last 3 years being a not too distant local and I know it’s not the area up for shiny awards) (if I recall from last seeing the track the other week it’s rusty nowadays in the tees yard area but this could have changed and I expect it has since 1989)

    Noticed some strange colour of ballast at 18 miles from Darlington before grangetown at crossing point to ore terminal (the colour was a shade of black that looked like it got painted in circles for a bit down the line)

    overall track i would give route a positive :)

    Xbox series x
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2022
  36. cwakefield73

    cwakefield73 New Member

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    Yeahh just had the same problem, rather annoying after spending an hour playing the scenario and rather enjoying playing through the journey
     

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