Feedback: Why Ruhr-sieg Nord Is Still One Of The Best Routes 3 Years After Its Release

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by jolojonasgames, Oct 24, 2021.

  1. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, for a long time I've been wanting to write in a meaningful way about Ruhr-Sieg Nord. As it stands it is in my opinion still one of the best routes in game, even over 3 years after it's original release. In light of the feedback on this forums that focuses mostly on the negative aspect, I'd like to write some positive feedback. That is not to say Ruhr-Sieg Nord (RSN from now on) is a flawless masterpiece, it shows it age in certain places and is due for a preservation upgrade, which I will touch upon in the conclusion, but have also made a dedicated wishlist for: Ruhr Sieg Nord: Preserved Collection Upgrade Wishlist. While reading this forum entry I'd like you to keep in mind I own all DLC for RSN (the BR 155 and BR 363), which might give me a different view compared to someone who only has the base route.


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    The great atmosphere

    The route has a truly great atmosphere. For me it truly brings home that feeling of run down industrial areas seperated by large forests dotted with small villages. With 'October' and 'Light Rain' selected in the menu the route feels truly at its best. However, during summer runs the route the route contrasts the dark and gloomy feeling it usually has with a bright summers landscape. Finishing off the generally good atmosphere is a large amount of details around yards and stations with these areas feeling somewhat messy. The only other routes that come close to having such a strong atmosphere are Tees Valley Line, Northern Transpennine and Riesa - Dresden, with the first two setting a great feeling of run down BR days, and the latter having great lighting and reflective signage, which combined with a good look in autumn give a similar gloomy feeling.


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    The fresh and unique feeling of the route

    When RSN came out it brought with it only new rolling stock. This makes the route still feel fresh, and offers new players with a lot of bang for their buck, even though the locos have been re-released on more recent routes, and the model of the BR 143 is very dated compared to the newer one from Riesa - Dresden. The route also still feels unique in comparison to other German routes, which all are electrified mainlines with higher speeds. RSN feels slower, and is obviously a secondary route that is mainly important for freight, having seen no long distance services since the days of the InterRegio. This is also what makes me very hopeful for the upcoming Tharandtrampe, which seems to find a similar niche, but more on that one later. All in all, with RSN you feel like your getting a unique experience you haven't previously had on other routes.


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    The unique and challenging gameplay

    The route also lends itself very well to interesting gameplay. With most of the line having low speed limits, that are constantly changing, causing an endless amount of PZB restrictions, this route keeps you on your toes, especially when operating a slow to react heavy freight services. This is also one of the most important aspects of this routes gameplay. When playing a heavy freight service you need to keep an eye out for speed restrictions so you can brake in time. When you use PZB and turn of the speed limits in the HUD this becomes an amazingly challenging experience. You have to look out for those yellow shields, aknowledge them, and then brake in time so you don't upset PZB which requires you to slow down to either 70 or 50 km/h depending on PZB mode. These challenges are further added to by the gradients on the route. Even though the gradients aren't extreme compared to Main-Spessart Bahn or the upcoming Tharandtrampe, the older stock like the BR 155 and BR 143 are hard to keep under the speed limits due to dated braking systems. These slow and constantly changing speed limits aren't really seen anywhere else, with only Main-Spessart Bahn coming close. This also adds further to the unique experience the route offers.


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    The fantastic freight timetable

    Compared to all other (German) routes in game RSN has an amazing freight timetable. It provides services that pick up other wagons along the way, with some shunting being required, aswell as power moves with a consist of only locos that is actually split into two services with a waiting time at Werdohl. However, this gets even better if you own DLCs. Especially the BR 363 is very well integrated with the rest of frieght services, with it actually shunting coaches that are brought in by mainline freight services, unlike on Riesa - Dresden, where shunting services exist completely seperate from the mainline freight services. All of these little differences create a freight timetable that is more than just A-B runs, but a well integrated and varied timetable with lots to do for players. This freight timetable is what I think the most important aspect of why RSN is still so good.


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    The fitting choice of DLCs

    The choice of DLCs for this route is extremely well thought out. Both the BR 155 and BR 363 fit in extremely well with the industrial feeling of the route. These two DLCs also provide extra freight rolling stock that sadly can't be seen on other routes (I have included trains using the BR 155's coal hoppers in my Tharandtrampe Wishlist though, I'd love to see them there). This ups the total of freight wagons on this route to 6, if I counted correctly, a variety not seen on any other routes. Then there is the upcoming BR 232 which will also be a great fit (though there are other routes it will also fit on) for this route, especially if it expands the variety of freight rolling stock and diversity of services even further. Of course there are also still oppertunities, such as the for this route more fitting n-Wagen, for future DLC for this route, but for now it already forms a quite nice selection.


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    Conclusion and hopes for the Tharandtrampe: Dresden - Chemnitz

    Many factors go into the greatness of RSN even 3 years after it's release, with the well integrated and unique freight timetable, added upon by a great selection of DLCs being the most important. Of course there are still improvements possible, such as the new features like platform PIS and working level crossings that were added after it, but also a number of sound improvements (especially to the BR 155 and BR 185). On top of that there are certain bugs, but all of these improvement points are used in my preservation wishlist for Ruhr-Sieg Nord. I can't wait to see how the preservation crew will improve this route in the future.

    There is also another important point when talking aobut the future. After all, this is a feedback thread, with the aim of improving future route add-ons. The next German one in planning is the Tharandtrampe between Dresden and Chemnitz. This route promises to echo a lot of the strong points of Ruhr-Sieg Nord. It offers a secondary route, with lower speed limits and challenging inclines. The BR 612 also offers a sense of freshness to the route, although the BR 143 is reused. However, even the re-releasing of the BR 143 can be remedied by including a older generation of Dosto cab cars (the 3rd one). The Tharandtrampe does have less oppertunities for freight, but with some clever and original layering from other routes by for example BR 155 hauled coal trains and the BR 204 or BR 363 shunting at industrial connections such as the paper mill the freight timetable for this route can still turn out quite interesting. I've used all of these points in my Tharandtrampe Wishlist, which I strongly urge you to support if you want to see these points adressed in the upcoming German route release.

    I hope you enjoyed reading this 'article' on Ruhr-Sieg Nord and I'm curious to hear your views on both these routes strong points and weaknesses. I also hope that the feedback I provided will be useful for the developers in making future route add-ons. I look forward to seeing more routes that use these strong points (especially those that provide a unique experience, perhaps it's time to venture into unelectrified lines or historic routes) in the future. I am also excited to see what the preservation crew can do for this dated but still amazing route!
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
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  2. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    No way! You definitely did read my mind, I wanted to write a similar post to this one, but never got around to it because I figured nobody would care and there are no german freight routes in development.

    However I think you skipped the main point of why this route is such great fun for freight, and ironically for such an in-depth post is the simplest thing ever.

    LOW SPEED LIMITS

    With freight, best case scenario you are limited by PZB modes (so either 120 or 100 km/h), and this is the only route which offers actually having to care about speed limits with freight trains.

    This coupled (as you said), with excellent gameplay (both in terms of adverse aspects, or quirky services with shunting in between) and fantastic rolling stock choice makes RSN easily the best (if not the only) true german freight route, even on Main Spessart I think the RE services are more fun compared to freight. And the best thing is, the passenger services are fun as well, and only got better with the Dresden BR143 (but it's a shame we can't use the Dresden 185)

    I also agree with your statement about the atmosphere and feeling of the route, it really does feel like moving from a rural area to a more industrial, and then urban environment. It's just fantastic, which is something that IMO is a bit lacking on other routes.

    Great post, overall I agree with all your points, I'm still here hoping for the possibility of Werdohl-Everlingsen power plant services and maybe a possible extension to Siegen in the long term.

    Easily the route that has aged the best among all old releases.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
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  3. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I did touch upon the speed limits and PZB briefly, but the one sentence I dedicated to it doesn't really do it justice. It's easily one of the more important aspects of this route. I also agree with your other observations :).

    Also, yes I can totally read your mind, but only when you think about trains ;).
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
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  4. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I could have worded it a bit better but that's what I meant, it really does make huge difference.
    Which is a very good thing lol
     
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  5. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I'd never really touched RSN until recently, as it looked a bit ugly on 4.23 when I had to have graphics relatively low, including shadows. While I agree it's in need of a freshen up from Adam's team, when I finally did it after upping the graphics following the FPS boost with the 4.26 upgrade, I really enjoyed my express run in the 143 and I thought the route was absolutely beautiful, especially considering its age.

    Hopefully Adam can add the new trees (that don't go white in snow) and DFS, and fix the double audio on the Dosto CC (if even possible) - that's the only thing I think it's missing.
    TSW2_Cameron_1629639343_00.png

    Once I get the time, I think I'll be driving this route quite a bit more.
     
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  6. Jack O'Track

    Jack O'Track Active Member

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    JoloJonas, thanks for your extensive comment !
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
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  7. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    RSN is awesome, especially with all the dlcs.
     
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  8. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I feel the same. The route just feels so well built and detailed. Sure it's missing things like road car traffic due to being one of the first TSW routes, but the scenery is really well done.

    And with the 363 giving you options to explore the small yards and sidings of the route, it's just such an amazing and lovely experience.

    Is the 155 good? I'm thinking about getting it. Does it add more services to timetable mode, or just adds substitution?
     
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  9. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Well written jolojonas. 100% agree with you, together with MSB this is my favourite route.

    Dinosbacsi Definitely go for it. The 155 is a very special beast.
     
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  10. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Now I need to go off and play RSN again!
     
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  11. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    The 155 has a nice old style cockpit and it's a nice loco. Sounds are bit weak, but I think overall it's worth it. And yes, it adds some services in RSN.
     
  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Agree. I’ve been thrashing it on Dresden to Riesa and MSB. Nice to have a traditional German loco. Reminds me of Zusi 2 albeit with 1000x better graphics!
     
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  13. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Nice, will get it on the next sale then. I always love it when a route gets more traffic. And I love older trains, so it's going to be a great addition.

    Now only if we would have some older passenger trains. Like the 101 with the IC coaches. I like the look of it, but that doesn't drive on the RSN, does it?
     
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  14. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Sadly no, but n-Wagen are an option. They date back to the sixties, and they have an interesting cab car. These would be hauled by the BR 143 we already have. I think they would really bring home the 'old feeling'.
     
  15. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I was just thinking last night we need some UIC compartment stock along with couchette, sleeper coaches and restaurant cars to get a layer of long distance D and FD trains in the timetable. Not to mention the famous Class 103 electric loco.
     
  16. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    I think the only planned future layer for RSN is the BR232 made by TSG, even if it's quite far away from release and things could change.
     
  17. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

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    This might be the best German route for TSW due to its location and scenery. Even newer routes are from locations with boring flat ground and straight track while RSN really gives you that mountain / forest vibes. The entire route is just curve after curve trough beautiful mountain / rural scenery.
    Oh and MSB is really close to RSN to since it also features some beautiful valley.
    For newcomers: don't let the fact that RSN or MSB are old full you, this routes have fantastic quality even if they where released today they would make it to the top, you need to try them if you didn't!
     
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  18. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Loved your comprehensive summary! I will use this as an excuse to re-visit RSN:cool:

    Thanks!
     
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  19. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I love RSN. It just baffles me how messed up the collectables are on the route. I mean, how did that even happen?
     
  20. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    It's the only route i enjoy driving german freight on, that timetable is a prime example of how to make a route feel alive, freight combined with shunting and that train of only locos is a nice touch, i hoped they'd do the same shunting/freight combo with the chemical plant at dresden but alas... Big props to whoever did the timetable on rsn, a timetable can make or break a route and here it surely makes it one of the best german routes for freight.

    So please dtg, remember how great you made rsn for us freight lovers, no more simple a to b's
     
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  21. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    E8AA2BBA-640F-43A3-AE4B-0FAA5FFE43B8.jpeg They need to remove the wrong Dostos and make the n-Wagen with Karlsruhe Steuerwagen as dlc
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
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  22. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Preferably with the original hard plastic seats so you can get a “Numb Bum” achievement for km ridden as a passenger! :)
    68FE8E3E-DFF3-483F-B7F2-0DE945469267.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
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  23. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    n-Wagen is actually a pretty solid suggestion. But as RSN got 2 loco DLCs (363 and the 155, right?) I doubt there will be another DLC for this route. The n-Wagen would also fit other routes as well, for example RRO. Or maybe y-Wagen for the upcoming Dresden-Chemnitz.
     
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  24. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The 232 is still planned for this route, giving it 3 loco DLCs. That does indeed make the likelihood of another DLC low, but many own RSN, so if there's demand, who knows.... :).
     
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  25. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Also I suppose an N-wagen set could be an universal substitution for the dostos across all routes? Would be nice to liven things up.

    Or at least an older gen dostos cab car. Give us something retro.
     
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  26. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    What I would appreciate even more is fully retro routes. I actually made two suggestions for them: The Saalebahn in the '90s and the Main-Weser Bahn in the '90s. Please do check them out if you're interested in retro content :).

    *shameless self promotion over*
     
  27. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I think this doesn't mean much. In another post Maik Goltz said that it seems to be more complicated to do a loco DLC for an older route. He wants to wait for his G6 release to see how that goes. But I guess Dresden-Riesa or even Dresden-Chemnitz might become the home route of the 232. Building scenarios and doing timetable is one of the last steps before release. So the homeroute of the 232 is maybe a subject to change over time (my personal guess). I know Maik Goltz won't do coaches. But maybe - just maybe DTG decides to do the n-Wagen for the 232. But I doubt that, because DTG wouldn't do that for free and I think a 3rd party can't afford to give DTG a bigger share of the money.
     
  28. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I doubt the 232 will come with n-Wagen, it will most likely be a freight focussed DLC. As for the fact that the 232 might not come for RSN, I know and I have been following the matter closely, I even suggested it should come for a different route (BRD in this case).

    We'll have to see about the way that all folds out in the future I guess, for now the BR 232 is still a considerable amount of time away from release.
     
  29. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    The 232 had Halberstädter in the DDR
     
  30. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    I also like to ride on RSN. Perhaps I will receive some services for the Elverlinsen power plant. The freight station in Hagen would also like to fill the wagons. It's too empty now.
     
  31. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That also applies to Rhein-Ruhr Osten towards Wuppertal Oberbarmen then Back to Wuppertal Steinbeck RB48. During the summer time n-Wagen the windows opened because those lack air conditioning unlike the Doppelstockwagen found on Ruhr Sieg Nord Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Gemünden which have them equipped
    Video of N wagen on RRO Wuppertal Hbf
     
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  32. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    This is National Express and they was drive for there Talent 2
     
  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I remember the great letdown ca 1970 or 71 when the coaches on our local branch were shiny new Silverfish replacing the elderly prewar Umbaus- and then encountering those plastic seats!
     
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  34. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    I endorse this thread. An early morning / late afternoon end to end run on RSN with a little bit of light drizzle in the 155 with pzb is still one of my top 5 things to do in TSW
     
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  35. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and if you own RSN with Main Spessart Bahn your DB BR155 is useful on both Routes. Want to challenge yourself on DB BR155 then try Main Spessart Bahn freight with DB BR155 on both Eastbound and Westbound Freight. On Main Spessart Bahn DB BR155 packs more grunt than the 185.2 or 187 SKA DLC loco purchased if played on severe weather conditions
     
  36. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You mean a reskinned Riesa Dresden or Koln Aachen DB BR 442 Red. Summertime open windows on n-wagen due to no HVAC
     
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  37. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Yup...I have pretty much done every freight route the 155 can substitute onto, but RSN is still one of my favorites after all this time. I think the primary reason being it was more or less my first dip (and many others I suspect) into the wonderful world of PZB, so it holds that element of nostalgia for me. I played with PZB a little on the German TSxx routes, but it is a much more polished experience in TSW
     
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  38. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Nice to see this route getting a shout out as it’s one I like too.
     
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  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I have just started enabling PZB on the German routes (though not SIFA) and it adds to the discipline of driving. I just wish there was an in game option to have the safety systems on by default.
     
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  40. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    How do you know me? :D
    I had both my first go at and my first successful run with PZB on RSN. Never thought about how that could affect my view on it - it's an interesting point.

    Back to RSN in general - I think it is, unfortunately, starting to show its age a bit, but to be fair, I think every German route is starting to thanks to how excellent DRA turned out. However, it's still a scenic route and the only one in which speed limits really matter for freight trains. Also, the V60-enhanced timetable is probably still the best German freight timetable even though the consists/physics/features of those on DRA are vastly superior.
     
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  41. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    If someone can outline for me how the Everlingsen runs work that would be most useful. I was going to add this into the BR 363 layer but it seemed to me, and talking with some of the beta team, that at the point the route is modelled, likely the plant is out of action for rail and a much needed crossover has been removed by this point - so you can't go from hagen direction to the plant, you have to go say from hagen to the next station along, then come back up the line a chunk, then reverse back into the plant if I recall? (doing this from memory so might be talking a bunch of cheese).

    Let me know what a sensible appropriate pattern is and i'll certainly see what we can do - perhaps it could use the BR 204.

    Lovely screenshots in this thread and I loved the feedback - RSN still one of my favourites and all the more so with the BR 363 shunting added since that's one of my favourite tasks in the sim anyway :)

    Matt.
     
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  42. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I'm not familiar with the Elverlingsen turn myself (or when they might have stopped for that matter), but I found a cab ride showing a loaded coal train coming from Hagen and showing the pattern to get to the power plant.

    The most interesting bit (turning around the train and pushing the cars into the power plant) starts at 27:46 - timestamp for your convenience.
     
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  43. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    More power plant action would be a great addition to the route. Such a fun area of the route but never used - other than to hide a couple of collectables. Probably one of the most striking power plants ever built given its stunningly beautiful location.
     
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  44. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Have you interested for including the n-Wagen and Karlsruhe Cab Car as dlc for Ruhr Sieg Nord?
    Because that was the real Train in there Prime and no Dostos
     
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  45. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, I loved making the shots and I loved writing some positive feedback for once :).
     
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  46. JellyScrub

    JellyScrub Member

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    After reading this thread, I think it's time to give RSN a play again this weekend.
     
  47. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Oh wow so they do exactly what I thought was unlikely and improbable :)

    Our Everlingsen isn't electrified I think - but I could see a BR 204 run doing this in the game - or perhaps have an electric haul it as far as Werdohl and a 204 or 363 then run it up and in to the power station, maybe one of each for the variety. Some shunting in the power station to prep the return empties (assuming I can unload there, not sure if that's set up) and then a return trip.

    If I get some spare time or Adam gets the opportunity, we'll see what we can do - definitely wanted to get this used somewhere though.

    Thanks for the feedback.

    #NotAPromiseJustToBeClear :)

    Matt.
     
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  48. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Maik Goltz Can Tell you probably something about this stuff.
     
  49. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    That would be marvellous if you get the chance. It would also give Werdohl some nice traffic with electrics hauling loaded coal trains there and continuing on with empties while a 204/363 takes care of the actual delivery.
     
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  50. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    This sounds awesome. I really hope you guys can get to it, as it would be a nice addition.

    But does the BR 204 currently have layers on RSN? I thought the 363 is the only shunter for this route.
     
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