Fictional Or Half-fictional Routes: Would You Buy It?

This is something which came up in my mind with regard to the PC Editor and potential engagement of such content in the third party programme, since the capabalities of the PC Editor do not only allow to create routes which have an exact real life counterpart.

Indeed a few fictional routes already have been created or are in development by a some users in the PC Editor community.

Now my thought is, in which way routes like that would be perceived and welcomed by the community in any commercial way facing the fact that many players seem to have a very firm opinion about mismatches of routes and locos to its current or era-dependent state.

How open are you about fictional or half-fictional Routes? Would you buy them?

Would you buy them if the price would be less compared to a regular route DLC? Or you would say no to it even then?

And to be a bit more clear, here are some definitions of mine:

Fictional:
Does not have a real life counterpart. Either complete or mostly imaginary. Example: Think of the route as being designed by the idea of the creator. This means cities, landscape, mountains, rivers etc. and the distance between them is created without real references and just by the liking/favor of the author.

The "Holiday Express - Runaway Elf" and something completely imaginery can fall into this category as well. However it is to distinct between a completely imaginery route and a route which pretends to be real. I rather mean the latter to be classified here.

Half-fictional:
This is different to the above as it has a real life counterpart and this is actually a way to transpose between a real and a fictional route. The reason why this even came into mind was, when the creator either won't or can't replicate the route for Train Sim World in the way it is in real life (up to its standards). Might this be because of various reasons.

Now it is very hard to explain this and something like that never happened before with DTG nor any third party, nor is this meant to be a proposal to intentionally create routes like that in the future. But consider the following situation:

A potential third party creator has a limited amount of time to spent on a project. Instead of investing the necessary time to replicate the real route and its associated locomotive 1 to 1 (and with that risking to simply giving up the project at all), they decide to create some parts and aspects of the route different than in real life.

My question now is, would you be okay with that or would you say, if the creator can't develop the route and accompanying loco correctly, they better should go off and not even think about to sell it in any kind?


Notes:
1.) It's important to point out another time that this isn't a suggestion for first party routes done by DTG as rather potential third party projects.

2.) In this case, I let the poll to have 2 choices to be taken. Please do not choose "Yes" or one of the "Yes, if..." possibilities and "No, never" at the same time. Your vote would in the end have no other impact than pure engagement with the poll.

 

Fictional routes and semi fictional routes have a long tradition in TSC. I would not be averse to something along the lines of Ohio Steel in TSW. It's a way of bypassing licensing issues and maybe getting some switching and pickup action with US locos into the game.

Not sure which 3rd party would do it though. If there were a decent editor, it could be a workshop type project. Don't see it happening any time soon though.

 

I am totally open to fictional routes, especially if they offer interesting locomotives, geography, and scenarios. I also assume they would be slightly cheaper than realistic routes, as likely less research would have to go into the route.

 

Not really, no fun for me.

At least on a real route i can get the mile markers and stations in wikipedia and it works.

Fictional isnt something i would spend time even if the route is for free.

 

Absolutely. They're what I drive and enjoy the most in Train Simulator by a significant margin.

 

I wouldn't mind a fictional or half-fictional route. Quality and price are the factors that determine whether I buy or not, if a route has good scenery, interesting scenarios, various service pattern, and a proper price, I would buy it no matter it is realistic, half-fictional or fictional.
Fictional or half-fictional allows developers to create routes that no longer limited by timetable, rolling stock and some other factors, and they can even make those routes that never build, bring more possibility to future's TSW.

 

I play TSW for the realism, fictional routes don't really appeal to me.

However, I would probably be open to a little artistic license (such as extra services added or the like) if it made an otherwise boring timetable that little bit busier.

 

I think fictional routes are a great idea but they must offer something unique and interesting.

Semi fictional routes are a bit less appealing but I dont mind 'what ifs' such as routes that are long closed represented in later years. A modern day SDJR for example.

 

no... and for a very obvious reason, what makes tsw tsw are the realistic routes and trains

 

I wouldn't mind having the Island of Sodor in game...

 

No, not for me personally, there are so many real routes to cover offering interesting experiences that I don't see the point in doing on a fictional route.

This thread is about fictional routes not routes that are real.

 

I belonged to a VR in MSTS which was totally fictional, but a very fun route to run and write activities for. Therefore, I have no problem with a well-designed and interesting fictional route.

 

Yeah I don't see why not it gives the route builders more creative freedom without having to bend over for licensors. If I was ever to get my hands on the route editor the first route I would make would be a fictional one, I have a rough design plan and everything.

 

Personally I would also always prefer replicating real routes. Simply because it's possible to import real SRTM and Lidar height profiles/DEM into the Editor and just replicate the real world tracks and scenery in the best way possible is a major motivation for me on its own.

However, there are some users in the PC Editor Forum who maybe prefer doing fictional routes because of some reasons. Maybe they don't want to deal with the quite tedious process to prepare the Lidar data before you even getting it into the Editor. Maybe it is because they want to learn how to use tools or they don't want to deal with demands (trains, operators, licenses etc.) to the routes based on its real life counterpart. Or last but not least it is simply because they personally prefer doing a fictional route, shaping the landscape to their desire.

I hope it's okay ffabio89 to mention your project here. It is basically one of the best and most advanced fictional ones made in the Editor so far. Really nice job on it.

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/new-fictional-route-across-italy-and-germany.78833/

The Island of Sodor seems to be fictional (Thomas the Tank):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodor_(fictional_island)


And with that yes I think it's a good example of what I ask for with fictional routes.

 

Im Köblitzer Bergland V3 reloaded is 100% fictional and still one of the most beautiful german TSC routes. So as another forums memeber might say: Bring it on

 

I don't quite know how to tell you, but I think Matt is aware of this. I understood it to be a bit of British humour (also called sarcasm).

I often find it difficult to detect sarcasm, so I empathise with you entirely here.

 

Totally open to this, though dependent on the route and how good it is. Potentially a way to get around licensing restrictions too.

There are quite a few extensive miniature or even model railways around the world that could be scaled up into an interesting prototype. Closer to home, if DTG cannot build something like the Ffestiniog Railway as a steam worked arrow gauge railway, then do it as a diesel operated SG line or even a fictional Rhb line.

 

To be clear I don't see owt wrong with people foing their own fictional projects at all, but for me as an official paid for release they are not something I would be interested in seeing. Absolutely fair dos for doing any sort of route in the editor, I fired it up and got no further than that!

Wait, what? So it is not real then...

Hit the nail on the head! I do agree it is difficult over text, so I do try and put an emotion afterwards.

 

do not count on Island of Sodor ever making a appearance
that would mean buying license/copyright or what ever
and i doubt that they will do that

 

Thanks for the heads up. Not that I was expecting it or anything...

 

Mattel keep everything related to Thomas the Tank Engine in a tight hold so the chances of the Island of Sodor appearing in TSW is nil (unless they developed it).

We can still dream though.

 

Though I said earlier in the thread that I would welcome a well built fictional route, I draw the line at children's cartoon trains. A flat no to that idea.

 

No, aside from novelty routes.

 

No, real only is my vote.

My interest is high in the realism, the value for me is in the realism.

 

No.

 

Yes, I would as long as it is not a silly/joke route like the Holiday Elf or something like Thomas the Tank.

But I wouldn't mind a fictional route with realistic scenery.

 

Not my cup of tea. I’m only interested in stuff that actually exists/existed in real life. The only exception for me is that vintage routes (talking about proper vintage routes, not just 90s/2000s) will likely have some amount of educated guesses involved since there won’t be a visual reference for every meter of track. For example, one of my favourite things I’d love to see in TSW is a portion of the electrified Milwaukee Road network with box cabs and Little Joes. While the routes are fairly well documented in pictures, you certainly don’t have the luxury of a cab ride or such showing the entire old routes.

However, that - for me - is clearly a case of best, educated guesses and not simply coming up with fictional ideas. If a vintage route only takes the names and otherwise makes stuff up to speed up development, I’m out.

 

I'm all in for fictional routes. It does depend what that means fictional routes. I would not buy something like the Christmas toy train DLC. I would buy fictional routes that look like they are real. If they do it good and invent some fictional countries with a lot of lore I would go for it.

To me every route already in the game might be fictional. I just trust DTG they did not make up all the stuff. I never visited one of the routes and the older a route gets the more fictional it becomes. When I visit another country I mostly get to see the front of the houses. Trains show you the back of those houses

I've have driven so many miles in the UK now and if it was not for the trains and train infrastructure I would not know it's the UK. I've never passed something I recognise. NY is just the same. If it was not branded it could be every other city in the world.

So if there are no real routes left I guess I would not notice if they start feeding me fictional routes. They just have to announce it with a real straight face and give made up historic details about the fictional stuff I get to see and there goes my €30. Works with every game on my PS5

 

For me, it's a no. Santa express was different as it was for Christmas and it was a fiver, it's fun to play.

But if it was from Fictional City A to Fictional City B, it's a no from me. I haven't got a PC so wouldn't be able to download or play ones done by players, for me that's different, they have done it to show their creativity and hard work, but if DTG or a Third party released one that had to be purchased, No.

Santa Express is the only purchase I'll make.

 

I really thought I'd be OK with fictional routes, but when I create routes in that other simulator (Trainz) the ones I enjoy the most are the real ones. There's often an emotional connection with a real place which is lacking with a fictional one.

 

It's ok and I'm glad to hear you like it!

I've started this fictional line to learn how to work and I've began it before the LIDAR tutorial so, that's the cause I used the classic DEM and the line is totally fictional.
Another problem is I'm Italian and I don't have anything from my country so, due I've got to create any object from scratch, I prefer starting with something simple...
Now I'm working in my signal system but the line is the next thing I want complete and publish

 

I look at something like Red Dead Redemption 2's railroad, which I only recently found out does let you operate the trains, and I can see the appeal of hyperrealism routes. Routes that provide a convincing illusion of reality, and yet give us something reality can't.

You'll see it in modern racing games too, environments where the rough-edges of reality are slightly sanded away to create an idealised world. Roaming fields that are just that little bit more saturated and scenic, bridges just a little bit higher to let the train silhouette against the morning sun etc.

I think TSW should be focussing on real-world routes but in years to come I don't think this would be a bad thing to explore. So long as the fictional setting isn't seen as an excuse to just largely reuse existing assets.

A quick side-note about a certain blue engine since it's been brought up. The original books have one of the most thought-out fictional railway networks I've ever seen. The entire island geography mapped out, full timetables scheduled, every station and town has a deep history (literally including stuff like the religions, battles from hundreds of years ago etc) and all rooted in real-world railway history.

The fiction doesn't have to be an entire departure from reality.

 

Would I buy an official fictional route? No.
Would I buy/download a community one? Sure, why not.

I think fictional routes definitely would ease the worries around inaccuracy and would allow to create stunning scenes that push the game to it's limits. The one posted earlier, the fictional German/Italian one, looks really nice.

From an official party, though, no from me. I'd prefer they stick to the real stuff.

 

Never going to happen due to licensing but in my wilder moments the following would be great as fictional routes:
Middle Earth - Minas Tirith to Isengard high speed rail. Isengard to Rivendell through the Mines of Moria.
Skyrim Railways.
Witcher World Railways, Brokilon Forest Express (watch out for Dryads), or a gauge change at the border with Nilfgaard!

 

Like Dwemer-themed?

You did remind me of one of my wilder ideas, which is the NCRs’ railways in Fallout. Those clearly F/E-unit inspired locos in New Vegas do always catch my attention. And Fallout 4’s new locos don’t look all that bad either when you look at them as nuclear powered steam turbine locos.

 

I agree, I'd love to see a SEPTA route but due to their stingy licencing issues we sadly won't be able to see any of it, double bummer since that means the NEC can't extend into Pensylvania

 

I'd only take a half fictional route, if it was a representation of a once existing line, but set in an era where certain details have been lost to time.

So, obscure routes like the Liverpool Overhead Electric Railway for example.
Long since closed, but I'd accept a somewhat fictional depiction of it, but getting it 100% accurate would be neigh on impossible.

Or lines where stations have closed and been demolised and few clues (or photos) remain to its layout.

 

In my eyes though that is not fictional. For example the route I would love to come most is the East Lincolnshire line, much of which is now under fields or houses, but I also wouldn't expect it to be as close to reality as ECML or MML, though there usually are the resources available to get key infrastructure, such as key stations and other significant features. Must admit a lot of this route is helped by going across the fields of Lincs which haven't changed much and villages where it is quite clear when buildings have been built.

 

I’d be ok with the small fictional routes like Holiday express but I play TSW for the realism, I wouldn’t be interested in driving a route or train that doesn’t exist. It maybe something an independent dev can do with the editor but I’d prefer DTG, Skyhook etc to stick to reality.

 

Or a what if… scenario where the line never closed. Imagine the old GC still running north of Aylesbury with Class 68’s on the Nottingham services and Class 165’s or 168’s on an hourly Marylebone to Rugby all stations. What might the Somerset and Dorset look like today if it had never closed? Or my old favourite the SMJ… Every two hours from Stratford to Blisworth or more likely through to Northampton with a WMR 170 or 172. With a 153 running Bedford - Olney - Towcester - Banbury at a similar interval.

 

Ah Yes a route set into the future with mostly today's rolling stock totally weathered and beaten up. Blade runner style. Retro but also sci-fi

 

I guess, it would depend. A completely fictional route, I would say, would need some 'feature(s)' that I can't try out on any other route. So, a route with italian signalling might raise my interest, while a typical 'flat' german/british/american route with nothing special/interesting/new, I guess, would be a no. Maybe, if it's the Lummerland-Bahn...

A half-fictional route...well, how to define half-fictional, I think, in the editor-section, someone said something about creating a route that was closed 40 years ago, but create it with todays rolling stock (Celle-Gifhorn, if I remember correctly), would that be 'half-fictional'? That, well, why not. I guess for those routes, the preview streams would be somehow vital/important for a decision...

 

We already have a half fictional route. West Cornwall Local.

 

This looks fun:

The Lego Emerald Night would be a cool thing to drive somewhere too: https://www.lego.com/en-gb/service/buildinginstructions/10194

Whilst I do prefer real routes which arguable Lego Land stuff is. I do like to play with some of the festive stuff that's come out over the years.

 

Nooooooooooooo never and never to routes based on preservation railways.

 

I won't buy it. In fact, at my current age, I really hope that a train simulation game can achieve realistic effects. What I mean is that simulation and reality can reach a certain level. For example: operation, environment, sound. No matter how real the game is, it's still a game. Whether you can feel the charm of driving in the game depends on the overall performance of DTG in the future.

 

One does not simply walk into Mordor.... One must take the high speed railway.

 

Yes on Hogwarts Express.

 

Although of little interest to me I can imagine a DLC for that selling very well.
Expensive licence though.

 

Yes to the Wilford Industries Global Express!