Fife Circle Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by derek#2931, Feb 11, 2024.

  1. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    You do realise that not only do people who review games professionally get paid for their work, but that they often receive games for free?
     
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  2. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully we get more updates in due course. Will be a day one purchase for me either way.
     
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  3. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it should. As I don’t come here to nit pick nor complain about developers funny enough.
     
  4. jack#9468

    jack#9468 Well-Known Member

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    Reviewing games professionally is different to doing it for a few likes and subscribers on YouTube.
     
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  5. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    and getting paid out by YouTube for views which streamers earn money from and by ad revenue funny enough.
     
  6. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    Tbh even just having them at Waverley would help populate the station.
     
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  7. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Yup as you can see them no matter what end you approach Edinburgh from from the cab. May even be nice to have a lumo as well (wishful thinking though)
     
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  8. Fawx

    Fawx Well-Known Member

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    I'd say there is pretty much 0% chance of that. One busy timetable is enough work to make as it is. Doing two is pretty much no chance.
     
  9. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    But has been done before. Bakerloo line for example.
     
  10. bdlhouston#8691

    bdlhouston#8691 Well-Known Member

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    Something like ECW is more what I was thinking, as that has a timetable with the 313 and a timetable without
     
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  11. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's just the hourly Dundee stoppers in the present TT :)

    It'll be modern day regardless of which year anyway ;)
     
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  12. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't seem right. The highland cheiftan is one of the busiest services they operate! It's also a lifeline for folks that live in the Highlands.

    Where did you hear this?

    Ethier way, LNER haven't ended the service yet so it could still have an 800 on this route
     
  13. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    All we'd be missing really after that is a Class 334, Inter7city Hst, and the occasional service operated by a class 380 to North Berwick.
     
  14. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Would a pre-eletrification timetable not require an older ScotRail livery for the class 170?
     
  15. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Generally im impressed by rivets plan, also the 170. I hope they know what this means in terms of the community's expectations / sounds etc.

    Since im not an active supporter of tsw anymore, ill woud give this a chance if they are connect / merge / extend the route with edinburgh glasgow.

    In case Rivet would be such shortsighted to do not, hard pass nomatter how perfect its state would be.
     
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  16. Fawx

    Fawx Well-Known Member

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    Well it's not going to connect/merge/extend an existing route. Cause TSW doesn't work like that.
     
  17. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    There is literally no reason for Rivet to merge them.

    There are no services that go between the two lines.
     
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  18. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that it’s the Stirling & Glasgow Central services that they are looking at cutting, with the Inverness & Aberdeen ones continuing.

    https://www.lner.co.uk/about-us/changes-to-our-timetable/
     
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  19. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    And barring the Waverley entrance they run on completely different lines on the section between princes street and the fife line turn off too.
     
  20. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    The big long discussion about the definition af "good gameplay and possibilities / immersion"

    For me personally sehs would be totally wasted with st.pancras to ashford in a separate dlc. Dtg realised its potential, extended it and its one of my favourite routes.

    If you dont like extensions..., well thats your opinion.
     
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  21. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Hoping that they connect this to an existing route is a bizarre expectation. Not sure where you’ve gotten that expectation from considering TSW just doesn’t support connections.

    There are a few things that make me doubt this route, but being too shortsighted to connect 2 routes together is not one of them.

    It’s a busy, decent length self-enclosed route, with a myriad of rolling stock options available to it. If the 170 is done right, the timetable is correct & overall build quality is good, then this will be a headliner route for TSW, but that does mean Rivet will have to overcome basically all of the issues they had with E2G. (Maybe less time on moths, pianos & lifts this time guys).

    You may aswell forget about this route now, because of course it won’t be connected to E2G. I think you know that already though.
     
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  22. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Yes indeed ;). 3 years ago the community suggested less ice cream, but spending ressources on better quality. If they really want to get this route well done (which they are capable of), and getting the 170 not just decent but good, then they wont have time for pianos and lifts, thats for sure.

    Time will tell.
     
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  23. jack#9468

    jack#9468 Well-Known Member

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    In that case though, it made sense as the Javelins join the line at Gravesend for Faversham/Ramsgate services.

    If merging the two routes mean they only share platforms, then to me it seems pointless.
     
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  24. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I think reason can be found in having what is basically the beating heart of Scotrail linked up.

    Connecting Fife & E2G wouldn’t offer through journeys, but it would offer a Scotrail network.

    Of course it’s an utterly unrealistic expectation & I think the person suggesting it is just looking for a reason to bash on it.

    In fact I think Rivet are once again biting off more than they can chew with the entire circle & a new train. Asking them to add a massive load of extra work on top is just silly.

    I’d be more confident in this route if they took the MML 158 & reworked it into Scotrail, with the 170 being a DLC - getting the time & work it needs.
     
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  25. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    How so?
     
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  26. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    It's not a matter of my opinion - you clearly don't know my opinion either.

    London - Ashford and London - Faversham are the same route. They run together for miles and - in real life - services loop around Kent between the two. The player could go from Ashford - London - Faversham (and vice versa) in one train.

    Fife Circle and Edinburgh - Glasgow have no such connection.
    You cannot drive a 385 from Glasgow - Edinburgh - Dunfermline. There are no Class 158/170 services on the Edinburgh - Glasgow line.

    It is a huge undertaking to merge [not extend] for the absolutely minimal gain of
    *checks notes*
    avoiding a loading screen.
     
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  27. Fawx

    Fawx Well-Known Member

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    Yeah there's not really a difference between having these two merged or separate. It's literally a loading screen, that's it.
     
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  28. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    FIFE CIRCLE PREVIEW
    (Cross-post from Third Party Watch)

    Fife_Circle_line.png

    Welcome back to Scotland, folks. This time, it's a trip to the Kingdom of Fife, in TSW's new northernmost UK Route.

    Let's explore the route, and the potential it has going forward.

    The Route
    This is just a direct copy of https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/fife-circle-line.51127/ - edited to fix grammar and offer extra explaination.

    Edinburgh Waverley

    [​IMG]
    Eastern End of the station, looking over the platforms. Edinburgh Castle is visible in the upper-left of the image.

    Edinburgh Waverley. Located near the city's iconic Princes Street. Situated in a trench between Edinburgh's New Town and Old Town - the station is the main station serving Scotland's capital, and serves as the northern terminus of the East Coast Mainline from London Kings Cross.

    The station was opened in 1846, as part of the North British Railway, and went by the name of North Bridge. On 17 May, 1847, two stations - General Station (Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway), and Canal Street (Edinburgh, Leith and Newhaven Railway) - opened. In April 1866, the North British Railway demolished the existing stations, and in their place built Edinburgh Waverley. 100 years later, in 1966, the station was renamed as simply 'Edinburgh'. At a later date, the station's name was changed back to Edinburgh Waverley once more.

    The grand glass roof protecting the station from the (harsh) Scottish weather, and the wonderful, classic ticket hall, preserved to hold it's traditional looks, are only part of what give this station character.
    Most services to/from the station terminate, with all services (ScotRail) from the west terminating, bar a few exceptions. Many LNER services terminate here as well.

    Haymarket
    The Second Station out of Waverley, Edinburgh's Haymarket serves the Haymarket area of the City, and is a key stop, located where the Lines to Carstairs, Glasgow and Dundee (our one) diverge/meet. Near enough...

    The Station has five platforms, (numbered 0-4). Platform primarily takes services in/out which have originated from, or are going to, Haymarket Depot - rather than seeing much regular passenger services.

    Haymarket Depot
    The Primary Depot for ScotRail's Diesel Fleet; Haymarket is the only Depot on the Fife Circle Line. Already seen in TSW3's Edinburgh - Glasgow route - Haymarket will now be brought to life by the Class 170 and Class 158 units that live here.

    South Gyle
    The first Station after leaving the Edinburgh-Glasgow line, South Gyle serves the West Edinburgh suburb of the same name, and is a relatively new station, having opened in 1985.

    The station sees roughly 400,000 passengers a year, and has two platforms.

    Edinburgh Gateway for Edinburgh Airport
    Edinburgh Gateway is a station/interchange in Gogar, Edinburgh, located near Edinburgh Airport.

    The Station was opened in 2016 to connect to the Edinburgh Trams route between Edinburgh City Centre and Edinburgh Airport - acting as an interchange for passengers in Fife and from further north. With a quick and direct service to Edinburgh Airport from Gateway, it eliminates the need for travellers to go to Haymarket or Edinburgh before returning to the Airport area.

    Dalmeny
    Our Final Station before we cross the iconic forth bridge, Dalmeny is located in Queensferry, to the south of the famous bridge.

    The Station is elevated, as trains make their way up towards the Forth Bridge.

    Forth Bridge
    Forth_Bridge_2022.jpg

    The Forth Bridge; a UNESCO World Heritage Site and an icon of Scotland. Voted (2016) as Scotland's greatest man-made landmark. Running for 8,094 feet (just under 2.5km), the bridge is an icon, towering over the River and Firth of Forth, and it's neighbouring towns.

    North Queensferry
    Located on the North Bank of the River, and just off the Bridge, we have North Queensferry. The station has a mural on it's western platform, and that's about it.

    Inverkeithing
    At Inverkeithing the line splits, with the Inner Line going via Dunfermline, and the outer going via Kirkcaldy.

    Inverkeithing is located near the M90's junction to connect with most of Southern Fife - which the railway does intersect.

    We're going to stick by the Coast here, heading up to Kirkcaldy, then Glenrothes, then we'll loop back around via Dunfermline and end up here.

    Dalgety Bay
    Opened in 1998, Dalgety Bay serves the town for which it is named, and is located right on the Fife Coast. The station is very much so a pleasant one, with trains practically ontop of the North Sea.

    Aberdour
    From_the_footbridge_(geograph_2508611).jpg

    This Station has a fairly nice building. It also had a camping coach here until 1957.

    Burntisland
    Burntisland_railway_station_1.jpg

    Burntisland was the Southern Terminus of the Edinburgh & Northern Railway, with boats going across the Forth. to Edinburgh, while the railway went north to Leuchars and Perth. The station was intended to be the southern terminus on a permanent basis (this was 50 years prior to the Forth Bridge's construction), and therefore a lot of care went into it's design.

    Kinghorn
    Kinghorn_railway_station_1.jpg

    Kinghorn station is located at the perfect height and position to get a great view out to the sea.

    Kirkcaldy
    Dating back to 1847 - when, along with Burntisland and Aberdour - it opened on the Edinburgh & Northern, Kirkcaldy is now a major station on the line. Firstly, it's the last station before the line to Dundee and the Fife Circle split. Secondly, Kirkcaldy is a major town in itself.

    The Station has a fairly modern station building on the southbound platform, and the BTP also have an office at the station. There is also a mounted version of "Boy in the Train", a poem by Mary Campbell, which is about returning to Kirkcaldy by train, and smelling the industrial smells of the town, which can be found above the stairs to P1.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Markinch
    Whilst not technically on the Fife Circle, it's a more sensible place to end Perth/Dundee services, and means we don't have to leave trains as AI at Kirkcaldy when they still are on the Circle.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Glenrothes with Thornton

    This is the First 'terminus' station on the line, with many services "terminating" here - terminating is in quotation marks because most then do a service on the other side of the circle, meaning it's basically just Edinburgh - Edinburgh, but anyway.

    The station opened in 1992 and is by far secondary to Markinch (in terms of Glenrothes traffic anyway), and is now quite a quiet station.

    Cardenden
    Opened in 1848 on the Dunfermline branch of the Edinburgh & Northern Railway, Cardenden was a terminal station from 1969 until 1989, when the line to Thornton and the mainline re-opened - at which point services then loop round, or terminate at Glenrothes.

    Lochgelly
    There's not much here.

    Cowdenbeath
    Opened in 1890, Cowdenbeath is another major station on the line. Despite it only seeing around 150,000 passengers a year, the station has Terminating services to/from Edinburgh, with trains reversing at points to the north of the station. Prior to 1989 when the line became a circle, this was the primary terminus on the Dunfermline Branch - with some continuing to Cardenden. The station, despite surviving the Beeching Cuts prior, slowly continued to lose services until the revival of Fife's connections.

    Dunfermline Queen Margaret
    The Station with the longest name in Scotland. Dunfermline Q.M. opened in January 2000, talking it's name from the nearby Queen Margaret Hospital.

    The station is the secondary station in the town, seeing about a third of Dunfermline City's passenger count.

    Dunfermline Town City
    The bigger station in the City of Dunfermline, seeing 650,000 entries/exits pre-Covid; Dunfermline Town is probably the main station on the Fife Loop.

    Opened in 1890 as 'Dunfermline Lower', the station became 'Dunfermline' in 1968 - standing as the town's only station at that point. In 2000, when Queen Margaret Opened, the station became Dunfermline Town.
    In 2022 - the station was renamed Dunfermline City, as Fife's traditional capital became Scotland's 8th City.

    Rosyth
    Rosyth - known most for it's major Naval yards and port, is certainly a significant location in modern Scottish history.
    Rosyth Station dates back to 1917, when it opened to serve the town's Naval bases.

    Services
    The Main Route
    The Fife Circle Line is a fairly simple route to understand when it comes to service patterns.

    1tph • Edinburgh <-> Cowdenbeath via Dunfermline
    1tph • Edinburgh <-> Glenrothes with Thornton via Kirkcaldy
    1tph • Edinburgh <-> Glenrothes with Thornton via Kirkcaldy - Continues as Edinburgh <-> Glenrothes via Dunfermline - just a circle service.
    1tph • Edinburgh - Edinburgh via Fife

    Additionally, there's the mainline services:
    1tph • Edinburgh <-> Perth
    1tph • Edinburgh <-> Dundee

    As posted already in the Fife Circle thread, here's a diagram of Fife Circle service patterns.[​IMG]

    And, for Comparison's sake, here's the similar-ish Cathcart Circle Line:[​IMG]
    As you can see, Fife Circle may lack the branches of Cathcart - but that doesn't lose the variety. Not at all.

    Haymarket
    Haymarket depot services either go directly to Edinburgh Waverley, or use Haymarket's Platform 0 as a starting point for their regular services.

    Non-Player Services
    Waverley West:
    Edinburgh - Glasgow
    4tph • Queen Street via Falkirk High - Cl. 385
    1tph • Central via Shotts - Cl. 158/385
    1tp2h • Central via Carstairs • Cl. 385

    Croy Line
    2tph • Edinburgh - Dunblane - Cl. 385

    Waverley East:

    Borders Railway - Cl. 158/170
    2tph • Edinburgh <-> Tweedbank

    North Berwick Line - Cl. 385
    1tp2h • Edinburgh - Dunbar
    1tph • Edinburgh - North Berwick

    ECML - Cl. 801
    1tph • London - Edinburgh
    1tp2h • London - Edinburgh (limited)
    1tpd • London - Glasgow
    3tpd • London - Aberdeen*
    1tpd • Leeds - Aberdeen*
    1tpd • London - Inverness*
    1tpd • London - Stirling

    *These services would require a HST/Class 800. As such, they would have to only be shown at Edinburgh - possibly just disappearing along the Edinburgh-Glasgow line.
    London - Stirling and Glasgow would both be fine.


    Potential...
    The Fife Circle has a LOT of potential for DLC...

    This, it feels, has dragged on a bit, so here's a summary list:
    - ScotRail HST (for Express services)
    - ScotRail Class 68 (for Fife Circle services)
    - LNER HST (LNER Scottish Services)
    - LNER Class 800 (LNER Scottish Services)
    - CrossCountry HST (for XC's Aberdeen service - only 1tpd, though)
    - EWS Class 67 (if the 68 comes then the 67 wouldn't be out of place - as they served the same purpose)
    - Caledonian Sleeper (again, Class 67. Certainly would be interesting although services only call at Kirkcaldy and Inverkeithing)

    I won't drag this post out too long - but that's a quick summary of all things Fife Circle.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2024
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  29. jack#9468

    jack#9468 Well-Known Member

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    Because it is?
     
  30. Scotrail170

    Scotrail170 Member

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    I really do hope that Rivet at the very least get in touch with AP for the 170's sounds, they cannot mess a highly anticipated (and my favourite) DMU like this up!
     
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  31. Scotrail170

    Scotrail170 Member

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    If memory serves me right, the 158s ran services on the Whifflet line before it was electrified alongside 156s with the occasional service to Motherwell.
     
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  32. Indege

    Indege Well-Known Member

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    I will literally scream if the 170 sounds are of a similar quality as the 385.
     
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  33. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Better get you a rivet forums account mate! ;)
     
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  34. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    We can live in hope though given diasterous 150/2 I’m not holding my breath as this is still a mess
     
  35. Fawx

    Fawx Well-Known Member

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    How much you want to bet they can? xD
     
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  36. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Guys how are there already 235 comments here, you can’t expect me to read all of these :o :D

    I’m very excited for this, the scenery could be amazing. Hopefully the 158 won’t be too costly.
     
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  37. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Oh I cannot wait to drive over the forth bridge! I just hope rivet make this a good route and not just another rubbish one. They seem to have improved when they made Bernina Line, let's hope it stays that way! :)
     
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  38. LIRRGuy

    LIRRGuy Well-Known Member

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    Same but I'm extremely worried for the Class 170. I really hope the sounds are at least decent and the physics too not too mention the model
     
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  39. Scotrail170

    Scotrail170 Member

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    Allow me to rephrase that then: I hope Rivet don't bork AP's sounds this time around. :)

    Rivet bashing aside, I do hope Rivet can redeem themselves with the Fife Circle. If there's any way for them to regain some customers and gain some goodwill in the community it's definitely with this route. Given it's done well of course.
     
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  40. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    I'm hoping this collaboration with Skyhook will work well in their favour and will make the route good. Skyhook and AP are the only things saving them at the moment. There's really no way of telling weather it will be good or bad at this point. We can only hope for the best.
     
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  41. Fawx

    Fawx Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I hope they knock this out of the park and redeem themselves. If they make a mess of this that's pretty much it imo. It is a much requested and beloved route, the criticism will be massive if it's not done well.
     
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  42. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Well-Known Member

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    Yea. I think if they screw this route up I'll petition to dtg to build it themselves or give the route a massive update and overhaul from dtg. Hey, my last petition worked. If need be I don't see why that one wouldn't work.
     
  43. Hordriss

    Hordriss Member

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    They're not bad developers. You probably know the Edinburgh/Glasgow line better than I do as I'm not familiar with the line at all, but I thought they did a good job with the Isle of Wight.
     
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  44. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    I personally think Skyhook are more likely to give the ability to the 158 to run on other routes than Rivet are with the 170 seeing as the 158 is a separate pack.

    To sum the thread up quickly there were initial excitement about the route; confusion as to whether the route and 158 were separate packs or in one pack; realisation (and complaints) Rivet's making the route and people hoping it will be alright; an ongoing 'discussion' about youtube reviewers giving brutal reviews about DLCs, refunding them, then gaining financially from it; discussion about the potential layers and services on the route; something about it being merged with EDG and I think that were about it.
     
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  45. SteveRail

    SteveRail Well-Known Member

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    Edinburgh to Glasgow is frustratingly close to being a really good route. But it’s the lack of fixes since launch that has been mine and other folks source of annoyance. If they went back and corrected a few things I’d be all in on this and rivet.

    I really do hope they knock it out the park, not that it’ll be absolutely perfect but that it’ll be solid and a commitment to fix the problems would go a long way. It’s a route and train I really want, so I look forward to seeing previews etc. I’m currently not going to purchase day one but I’m happy to be persuaded.
     
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  46. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Read a news article the other day in the train to work will see if I can find it.
     
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  47. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Technically you can irl if they wanted to there is a track that connects the 2 but is not used. But if scotrail wanted to they can.
     
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  48. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Erm yes it is as the merged/extended SEHS
     
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  49. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    What petition did you do that got fixed before lol
     
  50. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Argh I was thinking of a different route sorry it’s the Stirling and Glasgows they are reviewing https://www.lner.co.uk/news/propose...sultation-on-glasgow-and-stirling-extensions/
     
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