Fife Circle Line: Edinburgh Waverley–glenrothes With Thornton

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by WonterRail, Oct 6, 2021.

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  1. Doesn't come with the route, is added later via a loco add-on

    33.3%
  2. Comes with the route, but replaces the 68 as one of the available locos

    33.3%
  3. Comes with the route, alongside the 68 & the 170

    33.3%
  1. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    So it's time to write another in-depth suggestion on a route that featured in that thread about routes that could make great 'Rush Hour' style routes in TSW2. For todays suggestion, we are going up to Scotland to focus on a route that has come up quite a bit when talking about routes that could potentially come to TSW2, especially after the release of it's TS Classic counterpart just over a year ago, and that route is the Fife Circle Line, heading out of Edinburgh Waverley and either going around the circle and back again via Glenrothes with Thornton or going up the branch to Markinch.

    But before going further...

    What he said in that post

    Click on the link here to see all the routes that featured and vote in the poll if you haven't already.

    So with further ado, let's get into talking about this route

    The Route Itself



    Now you might recognise that route, like all of these suggestions here, from the TS Classic version that came last year, and from the fact it was one of the 3 core routes that came with TS 2021, which has recently been succeeded by TS 2022. Now at the time, it was quite a well received route, I don't think it's held up well over time, but it's reception is still better than most TS Classic routes out there. But this route does seem to be a popular suggestion for a potential TSW2 version. Firstly for the fact it's another route set in Scotland and it has a decent amount of traffic running on it. Plus, on the subject of the former, it's a route set out of Edinburgh, the other of the two big cities and the second largest in that part of the country, with it's main station being Waverley station, the Northern end of the East Coast Main Line and what would be busiest part of the route, which lot's of AI trains coming in and out of the station to try and liven up the atmosphere around that area.

    Now as always, to give you an idea of what this route might look like, I have once again made of map of the basic layout of the route.

    Map of the Whole Route
    Fife Circle Line 1.PNG
    Section around Inverkeithing
    Fife Circle Line 2.PNG
    Section around Glenrothes with Thornton & Markinch
    Fife Circle Line 3.PNG

    Once again running through the stats, the route you see here is in total, 52.7 Miles (84.8 km) long, with the main circle line being 49.4 Miles (79.6 km) long and an additional 3.3 Miles (5.3 km) of track that make up the spur up to Markinch. The route also comes with 20 stations and only 1 depot at Haymarket TMD, on the outskirts of Edinburgh.

    Now if I could summarise what this route basically is, it's like a much bigger, more scenic, non-electrified version of the Cathcart Circle Line we already have, and not just because they both set in Scotland. Its more by the fact that the grand majority of the services on this route traverse either part of, or go all the way around this large circle on the north side of the Forth Estuary, similar too how services traverse the circle just south of Glasgow Central. This route of course has a lot that makes this stand out from Cathcart Circle. Firstly, the circle is a lot bigger and doesn't really have any branches coming off it (apart from one, which I will get to later). Secondly, this is mostly a diesel only route while Cathcart Circle has overhead catenary and is mainly operated by electric trains. Now while we do have quite a few UK diesel routes in TSW2, we haven't really had a modern UK diesel route since the first UK route, Great Western Express, so having another one of these route would bring something different compared to the historic stuff that most UK routes are at the moment. But perhaps the main advantage this route has over Cathcart Circle is the fact that this route if far more scenic, with this route passing through a lot more countryside and also has a major landmark in the form of the iconic Forth Bridge, offering spectacular views of both of the Forth Road Bridges and also along the Forth Estuary out towards the North Sea. This would be something of a test of TSW2 to see how far you would be able to see along the estuary while crossing over this iconic bridge.

    Now while this route is pretty much the same as the TS Classic version, I have also added in the spur that goes to Markinch, which I don't think was present in that version. The reason for this is to add in services that continue north to Perth and Arbroath, while giving them a decent start/end point rather than starting already on the circle at Kirkcaldy, which, if it wasn't included, would be quite a distance from the spawn in point around the 3-way junction near Thornton.

    So before we go further, let's take a moment to see what this route looks like in real life.

    Pictures of the route in real life

    Edinburgh Waverley
    [​IMG]
    Haymarket TMD
    [​IMG]
    Forth Bridge
    [​IMG]
    Inverkeithing
    [​IMG]
    Dunfermline Town
    [​IMG]
    Cowdenbeath
    [​IMG]
    Burntisland
    [​IMG]
    Kirkcaldy

    [​IMG]
    Glenrothes with Thornton
    [​IMG]
    Markinch
    [​IMG]

    Available Locos

    Now normally with any loco I suggest for this route, I try to keep what we usually get with a typical TSW2 route, which is one new loco and another loco that is reused from another route/loco add-on. But this route has two new locos. This is because one of them is actually not to similar to another loco that is already in TSW2, but I'll talk more about it once we get there.

    ScotRail BR Class 68
    [​IMG]
    I'm sure this has been a loco that so many people would love to see in TSW2, but we just don't have a route in TSW2 where they would fit in at the moment. Well this route would be the perfect place to introduce it as two of these locos (specifically numbers 68006 & 07) were sub-leased to ScotRail from Direct Rail Services between 2015 and 2020 to help out on this route at peak-times. They were eventually handed back to DRS, but since I am visioning this route being set around the they operated, they would feature as this route star loco, similar to the TS Classic version of this route. They would come in the ScotRail Saltire livery and as I've said, they would run the at peak-times around the circle line, starting and finishing at Edinburgh Waverley. They would operate these services using BR Mk2 coaches, once again painted in ScotRail livery.
    [​IMG]
    ScotRail BR Class 170/4 Turbostar
    [​IMG]
    Now for the other new loco that would come with this route and one that I feel is long overdue to come to TSW2. Now with this unit, despite being a diesel rather than electric, I actually feel like looks wise, it's actually not too similar to the Electrostars that we already have in the game. It helps that they are made by the same company as the Electrostars, but apart from a different cab, and the fact they are diesel rather than electric, the general body of the loco, as well as the doors are pretty much the same, which I why I have put them here as the second new loco to come with this route.

    These units would make up the grand majority of the services on this route, running services either all the way round the circle and back to Edinburgh, running only as far as Glenrothes with Thornton via Kirkcaldy, running to Cowdenbeath via Dunfermline or all the way along the spur to Markinch and beyond to Arbroath, Perth or Inverness.

    Any other layers?

    Now for this section, I could think up of two other layers coming from other routes we already have in TSW2 and both are kinda the usual for a normal UK route release.

    The first is a rail tour layer from Northern Trans-Pennine, which would travel from Edinburgh Waverley, up to Markinch and out the other side via Kirkcaldy and then travel back to Edinburgh via Dunfermline later on in the day. Of course, this rail tour would be operated by the available BR era locos we currently have in this game.

    The other is from East Coastway, which would add an engineering works train, similar to what is found in Cathcart Circle. Like with the railtour services, there would be two that ran from Edinburgh to Markinch and each service would travel one side of the circle. One service would happen early in the morning and the other would take place late at night, at a time when overnight works on the railway would begin.

    Future Loco Add-Ons

    Into the last section now and for this one, I could only think up of two more locos that could come to this route after it had been release. But they are the only other two locos that seem to run on this run, so they would help complete this route in some way.

    ScotRail BR Class 43 HST 'Inter7City'
    [​IMG]
    In 2018, ScotRail brought in several of the old HST sets from Great Western Express to operate on their new Inter7City services, which references the 7 cities that re in Scotland. These wouldn't the exact same as the ones from Great Western Express as they would come in a new livery and the Mk3 coaches would have a new interior and powered doors. On this route, they would operate services between Edinburgh and Markinch via Kirkcaldy. But these trains would also bring in several AI services that only make one stop at Haymarket on the way out without stopping anywhere else.

    Scotrail BR Class 158/0
    [​IMG]
    Another loco that I feel is long overdue to come to TSW2 and one that would compliment the Turbostar already available with the route. These units have been seen right across the UK with Scotland probably being one of the more well places they operate in, with these units running services that go all the way to the top of the UK at Wick. But here, they would mostly sub into the existing Turbostar services on this route, operating the grand majority of services and adding some more variety to the existing loco roster.

    Conclusion

    All in all, if you want to follow on from Cathcart Circle with a route that is much bigger and slightly more scenic, then this place wouldn't be a too bad place to go to. It's amount of services is probably comparable to Cathcart, but has more variety of locos running on it and would also have a lot of AI trains to increase the traffic levels around Edinburgh. The route is a lot bigger and also features a small branch that I don't think was present in it's TS Classic counterpart in the form of Markinch and the route is far more scenic than Cathcart with a lot more countryside and the fact that this would be a modern UK diesel route, something we haven't seen since Great Western Express and especially when considering that most UK diesel routes are heritage/period routes. But for me, the biggest highlight of this route will of course be crossing over the Forth Bridge, one of Scotland's most recognisable landmarks and one the great railway wonder's of the world. This I feel will be one of TSW2 greatest challenges to see how far down either side of the Forth Estuary you would be able to see and across to the other two roads bridges looking westward. But if whoever's making this route manages to pull it off, it would offer one of the best views seen from a train in any TSW2 and be the cherry on top of what promises to be a fun and worthwhile edition to this game.

    As always, if you have any ideas that you would like to see on this route, or you feel like there's something that can be done differently with this route, then feel free to let me know in the replies down below.

    That's all from me, and I'll see you all for the next route.

    Images Sources
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  2. 43050

    43050 Active Member

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    DTG could deliver the GWE HST into LNER or Scotrail livery as a second loco / formation leaving a local passenger unit 158 / 170 as the totally new unit

    Edit - or even a Crosscounty liveried HST
     
  3. kenobi#1878

    kenobi#1878 Active Member

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    Yes please. We need a 170
     
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  4. bdlhouston#8691

    bdlhouston#8691 Member

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    Great proposal, would love to see this route in game
     
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  5. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Another train simulator 22 route that must come to TSW2 just like my Appenweier-Strasbourg Railway which is in TS22 as Strasbourg Appenweier Karlsruhe Mannheim if Merged in TS22 with Frankfurt Mannheim DLC it's Frankfurt to Alsace Lorraine High Speed. If the weekly challenge requires a picture to be taken famous landmarks. I'm going to bet everyone who has this would just use Forth Bridge like TS22 forums
     
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  6. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    Only read the title so far but a definite yes from me, anything Scottish will be a pre-order/day one from me :)
     
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  7. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    Amazing suggestion and the route on the top of my wish-list :) Just a couple of things I want to suggest (all positive though) :)
    All 7 of Scotland's cities, we're not that big :)

    I love the 158, however I think it would be better saved for a different route (such as the Far North or Kyle line) and layered in otherwise other routes which only run the 158 would be significantly limited :)

    This I feel would sell very well especially as it could layer into a lot of modern Scottish routes, depending on the exact year the route would be set in an occasional GWR HST could be substituted in as it took a while for all the HST's to be upgraded to the new livery/sliding doors :) Also 43127 has a pink engine! A pink one! (just a bit of bribery for Matt ;))
    https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1190942883626569728
    Pink HST Engine.jpg
    Did I mention that I would by this day one :)
     
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  8. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    They could call it Scottish City Commuter! :D
     
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  9. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Already made the transaction to Microsoft :D
    Seriously, where on Earth do I sign up?

    A wonderful suggestion as well!
    Behave :)
     
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  10. CrazyDash

    CrazyDash Well-Known Member

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    This is easily the route I want to see most from Scotland. Looks like such an incredible route
     
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  11. CrazyDash

    CrazyDash Well-Known Member

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  12. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    There's a reason I added it to my comment ;) It could be in a scenario where 43127 get's taken into the depot for an "upgrade" and there's a pink engine nearby, because making something pink is always an upgrade :)
     
  13. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    Seems to be a lot of interest in this route and I especially seen interest in potentially adding the HST onto this route. I nearly did add this as one of available locos when writing this initially, but ultimately decided to save it for a future loco add-on at the time. But after seeing some of the responses here, I have decided to put up a poll to ask you what would be the best way to add this loco onto this route. The following options are:
    1. Doesn't come with the route, is added later via a loco add-on (So basically, what I am currently suggesting now).
    2. Comes with the route, but replaces the 68 as one of the available locos (I say this because I think a HST would add a lot more to this route than a 68, considering that when I did operate on this route, there were only 2 of them and they only operated at peak times, but the 68 would come as a loco add-on in the future, should the HST take it's place).
    3. Comes with the route, alongside the 68 & the 170 (Basically, the HST comes alongside the two locos currently being suggested for this route right now).
    The poll is located at the top of page and this suggestion will be updated depending on how it turns out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
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  14. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    May I suggest doing the line up to Dundee via Kirkcaldy instead of the full Fife Circle via Dunfermline? That way we still get the most scenic parts of the route (in addition to the Tay Bridge) and a longer drive for express services. Realistically, if a HST was included for just the Fife Circle then you would only be getting a short 20-30 minute drive out of it between Kirkcaldy and Edinburgh. The line to Dundee adds another 30 minutes, plus 70 minute long journeys for the Class 158/170 doing stopping services.

    The Class 68, although it would be fun, would only add 4 extra services (two in the morning and two in the evening) and as of now no longer runs, so I think the gameplay might be a bit limited to justify modelling it.

    In my experience from driving both the old Just Trains Scottish ECML and DTG's Fife Circle, the former route is more interesting operationally (albeit with outdated graphics) and the loop part of Fife Circle from Rosyth to Glenrothes isn't particularly interesting nor that fun to drive (lots of 20-30mph speed restrictions around sharp curves).

    So the best thing to do in my opinion:
    -Include the Main line from Edinburgh Waverley to Dundee via Kirkcaldy
    (including the short 'branch' to Glenrothes for a loop service start/end point that run via Kirkcaldy).
    -Include the Class 170 as the new train, and a Scotrail modified HST for express services (reused from GWE).
    -The Class 158 could follow on as a loco DLC, or layered on if included with another suitable Scottish route.
    -LNER Class 800 services could layer on if an ECML route is made in the future (strong suspicion we will see one soon).
     
  15. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    I think the HST as a layer would be best as it has a lot of potential and more services than the Class 68. I don't think the 68 would work as a loco add-on as less people would buy it as has not enough services for people to consider it worth the price, so I think it wouldn't sell well enough for DTG to bother making it separately and it would probably never appear in the game. Another possibility would be for the HST to be put in another route with a Class 158 and then have both layer into this route :)
     

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