First American Steam Route Should Be !

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by NSMotherSlug#881, Jan 13, 2022.

  1. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Active Member

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    So it's 2022 and see know body is asking for Steam yet.

    The First American Steam Locomotive and Route needs to be this Dovetail, STRASBURG RAILROAD located in Lancaster Pennsylvania, Strasburg Railroad is the Oldest Still Active all Steam Railroad in the United States Founded in 1832. Strasburg is a Tourist Railroad but still run Freight on their 7 mile route at speeds of 15 mph.

    I honestly think this Route would be well worth being Made because it's All Steam Both Freight and Passenger runs in the Beautiful Heart Lands of Amish Country.

    There is 1 MAJOR Steam Locomotive that would have to be on this Route it's a Staple of American Railroading at Strasburg Purchased in April 5,1967 Old Number 90 a Great Western "Decapod" 2-10-0 Locomotive with by far the sweets sounding whistle ever heard.


    strasburg6.jpg 3195161.jpg 1881.1116469740.jpg 4430.1432928277.jpg R (4).jpg
     
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  2. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    While Strasburg is a nice preserved route that is still active with occasional freight, 7 miles and 15 MPH is like watching paint dry on growing grass. Personally would like a retro Horshoe Curve with classic PRR steam such as the K4s or Moguls for express freights or the Q class for freight. The route has challenges that are perfect for steam. A retro Sherman Hill again would be a great route for big American steam with latter day steam like the Big Boy or the FEF-3 Northern class… at least both these would allow them to stretch their legs.

    Preserved routes might be realistic, but trundling along at 15 or 25 mph in a K4 or J class would be like scratching fingernails on a blackboard for me. Just my opinion, please take it for what is worth and no way do I want to put dispersions on your enjoyment of preserved routes.
     
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  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Same with the UK. I’m sure we would love to see Severn Valley eventually, but not as the front line SOS release. Trundling along at 25 MPH in light steam with numerous lower restrictions is not that much fun.
     
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  4. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    PRR Horseshoe curve or Sand Patch Grade in Baltimore & Ohio era. For those that do not know the old name of CSX it was called Baltimore and Ohio until the 1970s 1980s when it was called Chelsie system then CSX. Steam locomotive is 5300 president Washington
     
  5. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I'd prefer to see the Severn Valley set under either GWR or BR ownership rather than it in preservation. Running from Shrewsbury to Kidderminster making for a roughly 40 mile run. This would also allow DTG to include Ironbridge and it's iconic namesake in TSW and the world's largest mechanical signal box at Severn Bridge Junction in Shrewsbury :)
     
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  6. Jon from Rhode Island

    Jon from Rhode Island Active Member

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    All I know about the speed of steam trains is that Arthur Morgan can jump to them from his horse. But I agree that scenery alone can’t make up for crawling speeds. That’s why I don’t regularly play WSR even though it’s a beautiful route.
     
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  7. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    Agree with the sentiment on this thread. West Somerset is fine but it takes a lot of patience to run it at those speeds. I would rather have retro routes that run their full speed than heritage routes set in modern day.
     
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  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Matt has said, repeatedly, as well as Paul (DTG's Head Poohbah), that the Spirit of Steam releases will be vintage routes, NOT heritage railways.
     
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  9. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Active Member

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    If you Live in the United States Go to Strasburg Railroad it's a Must do thing Railfan wise Steam enthusiast you won't be disappointed ran like the good old days of Steam ran. Get up close Hands on Tourist Railroad Strasburg is 5 Star Tourist Railroad. been going since the 60's Know other is better than Strasburg, all original everything is besides Newer kiddie area. They have and Original GG-1 in her all Green Pennsylvania Amber Paint that everyone that see's her think's it's Black Nope Pennsy Never had a Black GG-1.

    This GG-1 isn't Black color it's Original color is true Pennsylvania Green can you tell. GG-1 picture taken by ME ! 22135319_1677077125697424_1716514000072798389_o.jpg
     
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  10. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Active Member

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    Best part of this Railroad is Dovetail can go to this Railroad and have hands on with it SOUNDS, LOOK & FEEL of it should be there in game, given NO EXCUSE that they couldn't get this or that on anything. Employee's and railroad super friendly. K&L trainz Mod group spent a week there with No Problems getting sounds and looks of things better than anything i've ever seen ever in a game.
     
  11. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Active Member

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    Funny, I say funny because Horseshoe Curve and K4 Steam Locomotives Sight of the "Red Arrow" Wreck derailed at Bennington Curve near Gallitzin Tunnels February 18, 1947. Problem with doing Steam like that is It's not "TRUE" to the Timetable Not knowing the real speed limit times freight pulling. Makes it a Mess and Makes DTG look like a Joke, unless you have a Timetable Book of Pennsy K4 which is very hard to find. Running K4's on Horseshoe Curve in area's 25 mph was a thing fastest Top speed Steam is 45 mph on the Back end of Gallitzin Tunnel's West Side heading to Pittsburg Yeah I researched it in 1957 when they were last used there.10 mph difference isn't something to think of highly just saying.
     
  12. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    But a heck of a lot longer than 7 miles like Strasburg. If the first American Steam route by DTG is only 7 miles, the forum will explode. And from what I have seen from old videos, the length of the consist are a lot larger on Horseshoe than Strasburg. Nothing against the route, just seems a poor choice for the first for American Steam
     
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  13. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Active Member

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    True True what we really need to be thinking or asking ourselves is how the Steam Locomotives are going to feel and sound which I could only Image the American Whistles are going to be Horrible Sounding Loops
     
  14. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    i would rather be optimistic myself… way too many pessimistic people in these forums… in my short 66 years, I have learned enjoyment is in my hands and it is up to me how I react. Not going to get too bent out of shape one way or the other. TSClassic had some great steam whistles and some that sounded like a strangled cat. Still fun to drive either way.
     
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  15. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Pen had such wonderful trains.
    Love that CG-1 and have been waiting years for T3 duplex 4-4-4-4.
    The epitome of American steam.
    Forget the wheezy old big boy, the T3 had class.
     
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  16. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well they might throw us a curved ball and do one of the Colorado NG routes. Durango to Silverton done well would be a Day 1 purchase for me, as would Cumbres & Toltec.
     
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  17. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I have ridden the Durango to Silverton several times. Hoping to get to ride the Cumbres & Toltec soon. And would probably buy either as soon as they were released as well.
     
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  18. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I actually quite liked little cute Corris Railway in TS1, although extremely short (little over a mile, if I recall correctly), the landscape was nicely detailed and driving the cute little steam loco over the gradients proved be enough of a challenge to keep one busy, despite the low speed. :P
     
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  19. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Or the Talyllyn.
    Imagine riding a train of slate wagons down into the valley with no loco.
    Sitting on the front wagon and just using the wagon brakes.
    Wheeee…
     
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  20. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I just hope whatever it is allows for some early diesel loco DLC (if we ever get any new loco DLC)
     
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  21. khalidaliishmail

    khalidaliishmail Member

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    A full on steam focused route set in the late 1940s (or as close to that period as possible) - for maximum variety of steam and when steam still constituted the mainstay of rail traffic, but before the onset of significant withdrawals of steam locomotive classes in the early-to-mid fifties. For instance if DTG are going to put the Union Pacific 4-8-8-4s in the sim, then have them running alongside other impressive engines of the Union Pacific steam era (4-6-6-4s, 4-12-2s, 4-8-4s, 2-10-2s etc), in a late 1940s period route.

    I don't see why steam routes must cater to diesel, there is already a fair few entirely diesel focused routes already in the sim, with a lot more to come. If it's the case that steam routes must have a diesel/electric layer, then it's also the case that any future diesel/electric routes should have a steam layer to cater for steam fans
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't expect DTG to try to tackle articulated superheat engines right out of the gate. Way too complex. Something ubiquitous and relatively simple like a Mikado (e.g. PRR Class L1, Southern Class M etc) would be more probable - and more layerable into other routes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2022
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  23. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Active Member

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    Typical railfan thinking Big Boy is something It's Not, Learn your Locomotives I will say. Eww, just my opinion Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 Big Boy sorry Not a Fan of only known to be the Longest Steam Locomotive in the world Not even the Strongest ect. The Biggest and Most POWERFUL was the Norfolk Western Allegheny Class Steam Locomotives which I'm a happy fan of but I won't them when and only when Dovetail perfects their Steam building on the Unreal Engine 4. Early Dovetail Builds suffer from late builds. True Power Allegheny Moutain Locomotives of the Steel Rails. If you think I'm lying Look it up and make sure you look up the Blueprints as well because those don't lie, Extended firebox 400 more psi Traction Power than the Big Boy all adds up in the end. Norfolk Western 4-6-6-6 Allegheny Steam Locomotives were the Most POWERFUL, BIGGEST, HEAVIEST Locomotives on the Planet EVER built ! 2 Of the Allegheny Locomotives could easy pull 480 freight cars up a Moutain as where as the Big Boy would need a lot of help. No Hate, Res reach and timing is everything.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2022
  24. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Active Member

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    Gotta LOVE those Mikado's Really really nice looking Locomotives I will say. I'm old enough to remember Steam running on mainline in my town and Freight. My reason for say Strasburg RXR first is because its small and simple and Dovetail can Travel to and see Touch Taste Smell in person and get things RIGHT unlike making a Big Route as wear there will be No Traffic and anything going on as what most Yards in TSW2 look like.
     
  25. damarjatiaji

    damarjatiaji Guest

    Pardon me but 4-6-6-6 was not existed
    As for Allegheny wheel arrangements is 2-6-6-6
     
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  26. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Active Member

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    Is that all really, guess you never made the mistake haha, I know I'm coming hard at it but Reason Know one else has made a Post on steam so wtf. and I would be lying I'm drinking haha
     
  27. damarjatiaji

    damarjatiaji Guest

    In terms of horsepower, yes the 2-6-6-6 C&O H-8 "Allegheny" Class is the most powerfull steam locomotive, indicated at around 7,500 hp. But for the pulling power and heaviest? I kinda doubt it, since it only got 490kN of tractive effort vs around 600kN for the UP 4000 Class (Big Boy) and both weight at around same number, around 540-550 metric tonnes (engine + tender).

    #cmiiw
     
  28. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Active Member

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    Eww Big Boy Fan you are Eww can't except it Allegheny is Stronger and more powerful; you think you're the first I met think this Nope haha, Look up Timetable pulls and you'll see !
     
  29. NSMotherSlug#881

    NSMotherSlug#881 Active Member

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    Yes they were Allegheny Lima's 2-6-6-6 Class N&W and even C&O were all Classified as Allegheny, Not sure what your looking up but They were
    \
     
  30. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good choices and Union Pacific predecessor Southern Pacific Cab Forward 4-8-8-2 home route TSW 2 version of Mount Shasta Line Steam Era
    [​IMG]
    Next up is N&W 2156 a 2-8-8-2
    [​IMG]
     
  31. damarjatiaji

    damarjatiaji Guest

    One thing i agree is Lima's 2-6-6-6 Allegheny is classified as the steam locomotive with heaviest axle load at around 86,000 lbs i think. And because the axle load is heavier than the UP 4000 Class, they got more adhesion factor at 4.5/4.6.

    As for the heaviest steam engine, we should consider the 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone Type built by Baldwin
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2022
  32. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The monster articulateds of the late steam era were built for different purposes. The BB was constructed to run long freights across the prairie at 80 mph. The Alleghenys and Y6s were built for heavy drag freights up mountains.

    As for "most powerful" how do you prefer to define it? Drawbar, indicated or calculated horsepower? Tractive effort? Pulling force? And at what speed, and was it useful? Here's a rundown:

    From SteamLocomotive.com


    Most Powerful

    DBHP: Drawbar Horsepower
    IHP: Indicated Horsepower at cylinders
    CHP: Calculated Horsepower

    PRR Q-2 4-4-6-4 7,987@57.4 (IHP)
    C&O H-8 2-6-6-6 7,500@40MPH
    PRR S-1 6-4-4-6 7200 (DBHP)
    PRR S-2 6-8-6 6,900 (IHP)
    NYC S-1-b 4-8-4 6,680 (IHP) 5,070@85mph (DBHP)
    WM M-2 4-6-6-4 6,345
    DM&IR M-4 2-8-8-4 6,250
    PRR T1 4-4-4-4 6,110@85.5MPH (DBHP) 6,552@85.5MPH (IHP) (w/o tender)
    SP AC-12 4-8-8-2 6,000@40MPH
    UP 4-8-8-4 6,200 (DBHP) 6,000@37MPH (CHP)
    C&O M-1 4-8-0-4-8-4 6,000 (turbine) 3,000 (DBHP)
    N&W Y6b 2-8-8-2 5,600@25MPH (simple expansion mode, with booster)
    SP GS-4 4-8-4 5,500@55MPH (DBHP)
    N&W A 2-6-6-4 5,300@43MPH (DBHP) 6,800@38MPH (IHP)
    N&W J 4-8-4 5,300@40MPH (DBHP)6,000 (IHP)
    AT&SF Madam Queen 2-10-4 5 ,000 (DBHP)
    UP 4-12-2 4,750 (IHP)


    Most Pulling Force

    N&W Jawn Henry C+C+C+C 180,000 lbs. Tractive Effort
    Virginian X-A 2-8-8-8-4 166,300 (compound) 199,560 (simple)
    Virginian AE 2-10-10-2 147,200 (compound) 176,600 (simple)
    N&W Y6b 2-8-8-2 170,000 (simple expansion mode, with booster)
    Erie P-1 2-8-8-8-2 160,000
    GN R-2 2-8-8-2 153,000
    N&W Y6b 2-8-8-2 152,206 (simple expansion mode, before mid-1950 modifications)
    WP M-137/151 2-8-8-2 151,000 (with Franklin trailing truck booster) 137,000 (without booster)
    DM&IR M-4 2-8-8-4 140,000
    UP 4-8-8-4 135,375
     
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  33. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That applies to Clinchfield Railroad Elkhorn Dante and Sand Patch Grade B&O steam era
     
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  34. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    The steam should die with the route in the UK, one steam route will be one too many
     
  35. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Talk about selfish, alot of people want steam for TSW2, just because YOU don't want them doesn't mean they should be ignored.
     
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  36. khalidaliishmail

    khalidaliishmail Member

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    What's This? First of all bother to read the post before commenting nonsense. At no point in the post was the statement made that the Union Pacific Big Boy was "the largest and most powerful steam locomotive", it isn't. Secondly, actually have the decency to know the facts before making arrogant statements like "learn your locomotives", it's the Chesapeake & Ohio H-8 2-6-6-6, not Norfolk & Western, not 4-6-6-6.

    A case can be made that the original batch of 2-6-6-6 H-8s ordered by the C&O in 1941 (#1600 - 1644) were indeed the largest steam locomotives ever built based on engine weight, on the order of 771,300lbs, whilst the first batch of Big Boys (#4000-4019) were 762,000lbs. The later batch of batch of Big Boys of 1944 (#4020-4024) increased to ~772,250lbs as a result of wartime material restrictions, not increased size. The later batch of C&O H-8s of 1948 (#1645 - 1659), as well as the 1945 Virginian 2-6-6-6 (#900 - 907), which shared the same design, had their weight reduced to some ~ 751,000 to 753,000lbs as part of a weight reduction effort by Lima, which included the reduction of 3.5" flues from 278 to 219, but a slight increase of 2.25" tubes from 48 to 58. The Big Boy was designed for somewhat light axle loads for the period, having ~ 67,500lbs average weight per coupled axle for a total of ~ 540,000lbs weight on drivers. This compares with average loads of 70,000 - 80,000lbs per coupled axle present in other large steam designs of the period (such as Santa Fe 2-10-4s, PRR Q2 4-4-6-4 etc.) and the H-8s had the heaviest average weights per coupled axle in the region of ~ 84,650lbs. A 4-8-8-4 designed for 75,000lb to 85,000lbs average axle load per coupled axle would truly be something to behold, and would certainly have been capable of mounting a substantially larger boiler than the UP 4-8-8-4 Big Boys or C&O H-8 2-6-6-6s did. The Big Boy did have a larger firebox proper than the H-8, being 235.03125" x 96.1875" (157 sq ft) compared to 180 x 108.125" (135.2 sq ft), although the H-8 had a longer combustion chamber (118" vs 112") and a wider boiler (109" vs 106.5625").

    In terms of overall boiler size, then neither the Big Boy or H-8 come out on top, or even the top 3 for that matter. When taking into account a combination of the inside firebox dimensions, maximum boiler diameter, combustion chamber length (if the boiler has one), and length across flues/tubes, then the Northern Pacific Z-5 2-8-8-4 has the largest boiler of any steam locomotive ever built, followed by the Virginian AE 2-10-10-2s and then the D&RGW L-131/L-132 2-8-8-2s.

    I would love to see a C&O route and the H-8 make it's way into TSW, as it's one of my favourite locomotives.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2022
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  37. khalidaliishmail

    khalidaliishmail Member

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    What an utterly ignorant and dumb comment. If you don't like steam, don't buy it. Get over yourself.
     
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  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    But in terms of most real-world usable power, I would vote for the Virginian Class AE 2-10-10-2s over either.
     
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  39. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Realistic Option for Big Boy is a Bundle called Sherman Hill Horsepower Pack you get Big Boy Challenger GTEL DD35 AC6000CW. I based it off a TS 2022 Bundle. You can also do this to Sand Patch Grade Horsepower Pack a 2-6-6-2 1309 steam locomotive 2-10-2 S1 & Diesels SD80MAC & AC6000CW CSX Paint 70 car trains Gen 9 PC only. S1 B&O 2-10-2-wheel configuration also apply to German steam locomotives. Example is the DB BR095 for Main Spessart Bahn 1950s with DB BR110 DB BR150.
    [​IMG]
     
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  40. jmhdc812

    jmhdc812 Active Member

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    Well, I'm a Pennsy guy at heart, with a healthy dose of D&RGW thrown in for good measure. So anything along those lines would likely entice me into the world of steam on TSW2.
     
  41. paintbrushguy

    paintbrushguy Active Member

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    Nah chief, half an hour to go 7 miles at 15mph is a no go.
     
  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that DTG are going to want a poster-boy "glamour" locomotive to sell the route, poss. the SP GS-4 Coast Daylight, or one of the NYC's J-class Hudsons, poss. the Henry Dreyfuss 20th-C Limited streamliner.* That limits the potential route choices.

    But as stablemate they are going to want a layerable, recyclable engine, something ultra-common like a Mogul or Mikado.
    ______________________________________________
    *As much as I would love to see a N&W J-class, apparently it has been trademarked by the Virginia Transportation Museum.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
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