Yes i know every body is wow and shiny with the new vectron, but i see it slightly different. So first to start with the good things, the livery both of the DB and the FT vectron is very well done and in a detail, where the livery designer has no chance to compete. Here to start with my criticism: I was up to haul a FT consist from Dresden to Riesa, and notice during the train preparation that there is a major brake fault / missbehaviour, which let me abort the service because this would considered a danger in reality. So i took a closer look at the vectrons and the Talbot coaches. 1. RP Vectron: - Behaves very much like the real one and it has the working brake indicators for the brakes + Federspeicher. So as already known for a non expert loco, the player gets a very good experience. Also the pantos are all dedicated for the county based power system. 2. DB Vectron. - Here it starts that somebody already botched the brake indicators, which are working on one side, but not on the other. Yes in the pic the brake is attached, and all 3 indicators show a green aspect. 3. FT Vectron. - Same as the DB Vectron, that somebody already botched the brake indicators, which are working on one side, but not on the other. Yes in the pic the brake is attached, and all 3 indicators show a green aspect. - - Going ahead from here, in my opinion the Pantograph selector is missing, since they are not dedicated as in the RP Vectron configuration. - So with the talbot coaches attached, it seems when shutting down the cab, a ghost seems to fill the brake pipe and release the brakes. (1bar / 10sec.) Malfunctioning FBVs are happening, but this is very dangerous in reality. So my point is, this cant be intended that the brake pipe is getting charged while the Cab is shut down. 4. FT Talbot coaches. - Same thing with the brake indicators, all behave wrong - The PGR handle seems to be connected to the A chamber vent, which are 2 complete different functions. - A Chamber Valve seems not be selectable. All this seems to be very rushed to me. Thats not a new feature, its train basics which were implemented well, and should have priority over gimmick fancy things. I bought TSW5 only because the nice german route, which is indeed my only point to spend money on. The FT vectron i would recommend on a 50% sale in its current state.
TBH, I feel TSW5 is a very rushed product overall. Fromtge new UI, sounds, route and trains. TSW4 was a much more finished product on release. Unfortunately TSW5 could do with alot more work overall. I hope it gets fixed up because right now I gone back to TSW4. Too many bugs, errors and oversights for me to be dealing with. If this was TSW1 I'd understand but we're on the 7th interation of the game and there are issues and bugs here which have no excuse to be in a release build IMO
I think Lukas showed it partially off in one of the gamescom vids just a couple of weeks ago & even then he said it wasn’t completed yet. Honestly the only reason they have been allowed to get this out as a £12 loco DLC & not a livery pack is because it’s bundled into the deluxe edition. I don’t think it would do so well as a standalone pack. You definitely get the impression from a lot of TSW5 content, that a 1 year dev cycle is too short for title releases.
cwf.green I don't know if you worked on those Vectrons as well, but you are possibly the one person with power to fix those issues.
I know this is sliiightly off topic... but I just did a service with FT Vectron, no big issues on my end... but I managed to get into a funky situation on first run (which is why I restarted it lol) - not too far from my starting point, a train was driving ahead of me (red signal), so naturally I had two yellows as warning... and for some reason I pressed PZB release instead of PZB acknowledge, and the loco let me... so I was like ok, on the next magnet I will press acknowledge... but as soon as I went over the magnet, I got Zwangsbremsung, I guess for being naughty and releasing it when I shouldnt have? anyway, the issue I reported in other thread either got fixed or I used incorrect order of setting up things, because now also second LZB section worked, including release, which I was very happy about
I did work on the Flixtrain Vectron and the Talbot coaches :sweating emoji: The brake pipe pressure releasing is a bug in the ep-brake system and I'm honestly not sure how it was never spotted (by me or anyone else). Most likely because you don't really do a lot of "changing cabs" in the timetable for the Flixtrains since they don't have cab cars or run top-tail, so when you deactivate the cab the service is probably over and you're kicked out. Speaking for the Flixtrain vehicles all I can say is that the other bugs brought up here seems to have been "regressions" (previously working getting broken by an update). How they regressed I'm not sure since it is not my area (art/skinning), but I have experienced animations getting broken when skeletons are reimported after art fixes (the skeleton is the asset used for animations). I have reported all of these issues internally but I don't have an answer for when a fix will be in your hands. On a mildly positive note I have fixed the "traction motor eco shut off in dynamic braking" bug on the DB Vectron (already fixed on the RP Vectron and Flixtrain Vectron since I fixed that before starting work on the Flixtrain loco)
and the other FlixTrain service from Fulda enters an LZB track two tracks away from its starting position, but doesnt enter LZB supervision, but that was explained as there being no entry point for LZB to register during that switch, so that one looks ok havent tried other locos/trains from that end yet, so cant say... looks like what Jo Kim said is true and I should observe that during my subsequent runs to check if there arent further LZB entry bugs when starting from Fulda other than that getting cleared up, I like FT Vectron, as it is finally a passenger oriented Vectron where I can utilize its 200 kph vmax and tons of power (300 kN tractive effort and 240 kN max e-brake) ))
Thanks for your reply, and glad to hear the brake indicators are already reported together with other fixes. Probably many TSW players might think this is on the nutpick side, but i thought it might be worth to mention with the brake indicators. Im fully aware, that my work on real trains are probably bringing way too high expectations on TSW Vehicles , which is definitly a nightmare for a developer to get everything into one hat. Here to say the expert 101 topped all my expectations beyond a level, what i immagined ever is possible with TSW. Also i never thought there will be a Developer, who spends so much effort into one loco dlc. Keep up the good work!. About the FT Vectron brakepipe, it happens only with the Talbot coaches attached, the Vectron as a single loco, other coaches or freight wagons behaves correct when shutting down the cab. Technically its not a bug , but its the reason the drivers have to do this specific type of brake test when changing ends on Wendezüge or Push Pull. If there is a crewchange and the driver who ends the shift, forgets to close the brake key, it will result in the same. You could get a filling brake pipe from the other side of the train, or a constant brake application, which has to be compensated from the drivers FBV. In technical terms, the brake application will always be stronger than the filling valve from the other side, but there is no chance to come to a stop in the regular brake distance of 1000m from 160kmh. While the brake valve on the other end is filling, the active drivers brake valve needs a lot of time just to lower the pressure to 4.0 bar. In this case only the "Schnellbremsung" which vents the brakepipe, will do its job either initiated by the driver or in the end by the safety systems.
Here maybe to add, on the modern locomotives the "drivers brake valve" is opened by electric with either the master key or a FBV switch, rather than the classic mechanical brake key of a D2 Regler. Still malfunctioning valves or electronics can happen on a modern locomotive too.
I am going to quote myself here since it is also on topic here... I set the e-brake to 240 kN, but be it B 100% or Full application of train brake (e-brake blending active), the indicator only shows 150 kN, not 240 kN... so maybe I did sth wrong?
Im not sure about the exact specifications of the ft vectron, same for their services and their E brake settings. But for the vectron, es64 and traxx locomotives, there are country based restrictions about the max. allowed e brake force, same for the operation in MU (double traction / sandwich). For freight its rather strict, just because the loco is able to brake with 240kn, it doesnt mean the driver is allowed to use the max. Kn on his consist. Same for the "Oberstrombegrenzung", the max amps because its definetly not up to the driver to exceed this value. Immagine in a area like frankfurt every train exceeds this by 50 amps, good luck with the problems in the powerplant. (This has nothing to do with the protection of the loco, where the amps exceed the Limit for its equipment).
In Funktionen, you can select if you want 150 or 240 kN of e-brake... when I did either B 100% on combined throttle handle or train brake with e-brake blended, it did "only" 150 kN, tho when AFB was doing some braking to match LZB curve at some sections, I saw even sth around 200 kN... so no idea
Thats what its supposed to do. Iirc passing a 500 hertz magnet without being in a 1000 hertz Überwachung you get a Zwangsbremsung. Youre only supposed to release when it is safe to do. So yea it basically punishes you for releasing when you werent allowed to
Some updates: I have submitted a fix for: 1. Brake pipe pressure increasing by itself on the Flixtrain Vectron/Talbot coaches. 2. Distributor Release Valve not being interactable. 3. Exterior brake indicators on the Talbot coaches not animating correctly. 4. One of the exterior brake cylinder pressure needles being reversed (coaches). Following the usual philosophy of only talking about this being submitted I can confirm that the Flixtrain Vectron exterior brake indicators are fixed and the weird cable issue between the brake selector and the distributor valve on the Talbot coaches has also been fixed (neither by me though, that was art changes). When will this be in the game? Don't ask me, sorry Some further information for those that are interested. Ep brakes are set to enabled (you can enable/disable them in the "Funktionen" page) by default if the brake selector is in R. This is not an automatic real world function but rather a preset to make sure that passenger trains start with ep brakes enabled since drivers would not disable this IRL unless there was a fault. Think of it as whatever the previous driver did before leaving the locomotive to you If however the brake selector is in G or P (as a preset, not by player) then ep brakes will be disabled since it is assumed that the train is a freight train (this should happen if you make a freight formation with the Flixtrain Vectron, but formation editor/free roam sometimes has a mind of it's own, let me know if it doesn't).
The only route which doesn't feel rushed is San Bernadino. Frankfurt to Fulda and the WCML feel rushed and unoptimised. Well on PS5. (And other platforms from what I've read)
Can you please remove the Flixtrain Vectron and the Expert 101 from the Same Freight Services on Tharandter as well
Why? Flixtrain leases its locos and they regularly show up on freight trains in the real world. If anything, they should sub in on more freight trains.
It still feels wrong, plus its only on Tharandter Rampe But the 101 has Nothing to do as Freight for sure, it was Never allowed for Freight Services After testing in the past.
sorry for bothering, but so far no one has given me a clear answer - what I like to do at the start of a service with FT Vectron (or any Vectron) is select e-brake force to 240 kN in Funktionen... but either with B 100% (throttle lever) or when using Train brake lever (blended e-brake), I "only" get 150 kN, sometimes when AFB brakes under LZB it can get to around 200 kN so does this work, or does it use that much force only on some occasions?
I don't know what you mean. It is perfectly possible to get 240 kN electro dynamic brake force on the Flixtrain Vectron (as with the other variants) if 240 kN mode has been enabled... (I just tested it myself) with the combined brake and traction lever. Blended braking is of course limited to a lower brake force since it intends to replace air brake force with ED-brake force and air brakes do not reach 240 kN, in any brake mode, ever. EDIT: There are some caveats though I forgot to mention: The ED brake force is limited based on the brake mode in terms of deceleration. In G/P: 0.6 m/s^2 and in R: 0.9 m/s^2. This means that if you exceed this deceleration the ED brake will pull back. It is quite noticeable on single loco formations where you can see the limits clearly. On longer trains this will probably be less likely but it can happen of course, depending on how much air braking is applied. This function is (afaik) unique on the Vectron. It has a lot of special functions with regards to traction and electrodynamic braking.
will try once I get home, it is possible that the indicator is again showing wrong stuff - like on ICE-T, a lot of the time the dial around speedometer only shows like 20% braking, but when I go into Fahren bremsen, it shows actual braking force and I was getting my readout precisely from that - the indicator around speedometer... I will also look onto the traction motor display on the right, maybe that one will say sth different so you used the B 100% (e-brake on combined throttle/brake lever)? also, I use the minimal HUD, so I dont get those kN readouts... otherwise I love that mode as it makes me look more onto displays/dials/indicators, but it would be nice if besides blue/orange colors near speed it said also kN )) anyway, will try when I get home and thx for answer ))
Indicators are not wrong Maybe you tested it at too low a speed. DB limits ED-brake force below 30 km/h to 150 kN (and the limit decreases from 240 kN down to 150 kN at 60 km/h).
I always get up to sth like 130 or 160 so I can then speed back up and try again without stopping ... so I dunno what I did wrong ... will try when I get back home
Thank you for these updates. Only one more issue I know about that I'd like to know if it has been fixed. Both on the FlixTrain Vectron and Talbot coaches has a phantom wheel under them in foggy weather. (Sent a post regarding this in the feedback thread).
ok, now this is interesting, dare I say fascinating find - I wasnt completely wrong... cos when you "slam" it to B 100%, it indeed indicates 150 kN AT FIRST... and then if you hold it, the braking force builds up to those 240 kN if you hold it long enough... during my test, a brief one, I got to 160 kph, then I slammed the combined throttle/e-brake handle to B 100%, almost immediately it went into 150 kN, and as I held, it gradually got to 240 kN, at which point I was at around half the speed like, damn, this is interesting see, this is one of the reasons why I bug you guys so much for an answer ... I had literally no way of knowing sth like this unless I was given a clear answer (thx again), and based on that I did some quick testing and wualla, learned something new, interesting and important my next mystery to solve is why the OG 101, when under LZB+AFB, does that weird dance between 190-195 and only after some kilometres finally goes to 200 ... happened to me only on Frankfurt Fulda
Seems like you are forgetting that the ED brake is power limited 240 kN is only reached below (3.6 km/h / m/s) x 6400 kW/240 kN = 96 km/h 150 kN is only reached below 154 km/h and so on. Between 154 km/h and 96 km/h the brake force (assuming B 100%) gradually increases with slower speed as Power/speed.
not like I will be using that much braking force cos I usually brake well in advance, but I wanted to know how the max 240 kN can be reached
240kn is a lot and you need the momentum to get this from the traction motors into the rails (most modern locos /MUs today send the created current back into the ohle powerline which is called regenerative braking. Many older locomotives (example Br110, Br103) cut out the e brake at a certain low speed around 25kmh because there is not enough momentum to build up the e brake force. From there those locos uses its pneumatic brakes.
Like every bogie primary or secondary coil spring has its "Kraft/Wegdiagramm" (force/distance diagram), every type of loco / Emu / Dmu has the force/ velocity diagram to show a lot of the data, which are not linear in any way. Also they varie on the multi system platforms depending on the country regulations. Here a few diagrams of the ES64F4 loco, showing technical limits incl. The country specifics
I think that's a DTG core fix as the 1116 and a lot more subs into those 6 or so specific services. I ran it with a 143 once. barely able to get the car train to move.
fair it's wrong in that timetable on that layer but to me it sounds like substitution as a whole could do with a rework. a lot of german stock substitutes weirdly
now that I understand those brakes, I just hope the timetable services, those that are kind of broken (like the one from Fulda at 18:37) get fixed ... good to have a passenger Vectron
btw have those Frankfurt-bound services (2 in total) been fixed? one had like incorrect LZB wire placement (which got fixed) but couldnt be completed... havent tried the other one btw no.2 - I did a service with DB Vectron... I know dynamic brake isnt supposed to stop the train, but noticed that even if you put B 100%, the dynamic brake cuts out at 2 kph... why doesnt AFB stop the train there?
Just to be an annoying nit pick With modern asynchronous AC locomotives you can actually get dynamic brake effort down to a standstill. The VVVF (variable voltage variable frequency) drive simply changes the phase / frequency in such a way that you are now just providing negative torque below a speed without regenerating energy. In fact, some locomotives (some US diesel AC electrics) have a hill roll back prevention in the form of dynamic braking I remember a story from a Swedish test driver that worked on the X2 high speed train and in the very early days (late 80s) these locomotives would start reversing if you stopped the train in dynamic brake. The quickly implemented a change to cut it out below a certain speed. What you stated is still mostly correct, and fully correct for the regenerative brake / dynamic braking on DC locomotives. Just thought it was a fun bit trivia
No That is up to DTG, I have not touched the DCZ timetable (and will not be doing so since I actually like driving the 101 with some freight once in a while). Just to be clear, it is nothing in the BR 101 Expert DLC that "turns on substitution" on the DCZ timetable, that is only controlled in the files of that DLC. I don't really know how it shows up since the BR 101 Expert does not have freight regions added (if it did it would substitute on every freight service everywhere).
so this is modelled correctly then, I assume? I remember someone mentioning in some thread that if AFB "detects" the train is moving like 2-3 kph for like a couple seconds, it engages direct brake?
I'm not 100% sure. I just checked the Vectron and the AFB hold brake threshold is set to 1 km/h, that doesn't seem correct to me. Every locomotive I know that has this feature has it at 2 km/h. However, the dynamic brake cutting out around 2 km/h is correct afaik. So my inclination is towards AFB being wrong. However, this is not really proper driving (to stop with only dynamic braking). On the BR101 you can even get a soft failure doing this (one of the traction motors can cut out if you are at low speed too long with electric brake applied, it will reset once you release the electric brake) - yes this is simulated. EDIT: It could be correct though. I searched through 5 manuals and couldn't find a figure, and it's one of those things where probably no driver will know the answer since they wouldn't drive like this (sorry)
heh I know it isnt supposed to be driven by this, but I tried and it happened ... I think I was trying to maintain slow speed while waiting for red signal to lift... I kinda expected AFB to kick in the direct brakes and stop me eventually, but it didnt happen, so I eventually pulled classic 1B train brake
A lot of us would appreciate if we had player-substitution of 101 on freights across the board. Not for AI, just when the player choses it. It is universal loco by design, and it would immensely expand the gameplay.
