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Frequent Pauses Lasting 1/2 - 2 Seconds

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by aceridgey, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. aceridgey

    aceridgey New Member

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    Hi there,

    Specs M.2 SSD's
    10700k
    1080ti
    32gb ram

    FPS are ok, but every 20 seconds or so, the sim will lockup for a a second or so, killing immersion. I feel like it affects every route and is inherant with the program.

    Any ideas?
     
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  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    By "FPS are ok," what number do you mean?
     
  3. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I am getting this loading stutter too. Tees valley was horrible the other day.
     
  4. Quentin

    Quentin Active Member

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    I've experienced something similar, and when I checked Windows was doing some downloading on its own initiative.
     
  5. aceridgey

    aceridgey New Member

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    Around 60-70?
     
  6. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    That's stuttering, and has been a problem since the beginning of TSW, while even worse in the past should be said.
     
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  7. fakenham

    fakenham Active Member

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    I have a bad stutter sometimes if the mouse cursor is showing and I try to pan the view- if I hide it (right click I think), no stuttering.
     
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  8. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    That’s when it freezes for me, start scenario, spin camera and nada for a few seconds then it pretends to you it’s all fine and carries on
     
  9. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I get stutters most commonly when the ‘objective complete’ message appears. For some reason the game struggles when loading in the next instruction.
     
  10. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I got really bad stutters using dx12. Switching back to normal everything is pretty smooth though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  11. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Just to remind everyone that DX12 is NOT officially supported, so if you're using that, you're on your own i'm afraid, it may work better for you or worse.

    The pause when an objective completes is the auto save mechanic doing a save-game - this is a known problem we need to try and optimise this so that it doesn't have this impact but no movement on it yet.

    Pausing when you spin the camera may be down to how UE4 actually unloads everything from the scene that you can't see to improve FPS, dynamically loading it as you turn the camera. If you spin the camera rapidly sometimes i've found that it causes a hitch, not sure whether it's particular assets causing it but that's the only thing I can think of there.

    Some videos of performance issues would be really helpful, thanks!

    Matt.
     
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  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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  13. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    With a powerful system like yours you may also try using r.TextureStreaming=0. This has an impact on performance and just after scenario is launched it needs some seconds to load everything so during some seconds you may see small freezes. But after that moving camera around is much smoother as the whole scene is kept into system, instead of loading/unloading the objects which are visible as you pan around.

    Even with DX12 not supported as Matt warned I found the combination of these elements working the best in my case (2080Ti and 9900k):

    - DX12 enabled (handles better heavy loads and gives higher fps)
    - r.TextureStreaming=0
    - Motion blur off
    - Work at a fixed fps target (as suggested by silicitr)

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
  14. GrayDawg

    GrayDawg Well-Known Member

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    Well, on my rig I have to use r.TextureStreaming set to 1, not 0, or I will get load stutters/quick freezes. I only need this on a few routes though, not all of them. TGV was absolutely horrible when r.TextureStreaming= was set to 0, but more or less perfect when I changed it to 1. DX12 so far is nothing less than a miracle for me. I would not be able to play with the graphics options, and at the resolution I do, without it.
     
  15. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Matt. Your photo always ,always me thinks of a school photo . That said it’s brilliant seeing you guys engaging and I love the YouTube streams. Thank you
     
  16. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    It is amazing how the same game behaves differently on different systems, under DX11 i5-9700K SSD and 32GB of RAM (TSW2 uses about 5 to 6 GB) I experienced the occasional stutter and had a frame rate of about 30 fps. I recently upgraded to a RTX 3070 and with both DX11 and DX12 have experienced no stutters at all. DX12 has made an amazing difference to the quality with all text roadside now being readable at speed and I'm getting 60fps.

    Is there anything else writing to your SSD while TSW2 runs or anything that might be doing a malware scan of files as they load? If you're not sure try excluding the TSW2 folders from your malware scanner and see if that makes any difference.

    Paul
     
  17. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    For those who don't use the save/resume function, I recommend adding this line to your engine.ini file. I've experienced less stutters as a result.

    ts2.save.CheckpointsEnabled=0
     
  18. cp1400

    cp1400 Member

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    The last time I checked with MSI afterburner and for some reason, the stutters would always happen when the GPU load suddenly reduces to lower values. So I'm not sure but it seems to be lack of optimization. Usually the GPU is using 99% (which is good) but then drops to like 20% for a second, and that is the exact moment the stutter occurs. On other games the GPU stays steadily at 99% I'm not sure what exactly causes it but it seems to be related to the GPU
     
  19. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get such command from? Is there a list of custom variables for the game available appart from the unreal standard variables? I´m curious about them.

    Cheers
     
  20. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Hi. I created a link here for you to download and view the variables. Note that not all of these work with TSW.

    Download here
     
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  21. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot sir!

    Cheers
     
  22. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like when the game loads in the next bit form storage. If your storage is a bit slow you'll really feel it.

    Go to https://www.userbenchmark.com/ and see what it thinks of your computer. I've been using it to figure out what needs changing on all the computers in the family. Sometimes its a matter of upgrading hardware, or sometimes it suggests different configuration to what you've got. I solved some performance problems on one machine because the motherboard didn't configure the RAM properly by itself. Made the suggested change and now its a rocket.

    Paul
     
  23. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    The GPU usage drops to a halt because it is waiting for the next instructions. The halt starves the GPU of things to do, meaning that it is not a GPU bottleneck. It is more likely a storage or RAM speed bottleneck.

    Cheers
     
  24. cp1400

    cp1400 Member

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    SSD is a Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500GB and it has more than 40% free space, everything else runs like a charm (including other games). RAM speed is also fine with everything else.. (16GB Dual Channel 1196MHz (17-17-17-39))

    However,the stutters I get are the usual microstutters that exist since Train Simulator -> TSW -> TSW2020 and now TSW 2. So it's hardly anything to do with the rig... It's always been like that. However I just happened to notice those GPU drops coinciding with the microstutters and thought it might be helpful for the devs.

    upload_2021-2-23_11-36-49.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  25. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    That configuration looks remarkably like my machine before I blew it away and built a new one. It just wasn't up to keeping up with modern game engines - particularly those using DX12.

    The 1196MHz Ram suggests this is a fairly old machine. How old is the SSD? Even though they don't have moving parts they do wear out and get slower as they have to skip bad blocks.

    My current configuration is
    10th gen i5-10600
    32gb 3200 ram
    RTX 3070 8gb ram
    Windows is on a Samsung 860 EVO 1TB a bit like yours, but the games are on a Samsung 860 QVO 2TB. I've found keeping windows and the games on separate drives is still valid even in the era of solid state. Give https://www.userbenchmark.com/ a try - it will show you where your machine sits in relation to others and give you a rating from Tree Trunk through to UFO.

    Paul
     
  26. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I think, though cp1400 will have to confirm, that 1196MHz is the base frequency which is then doubled by the nature of Double-Data-Rate memory. So if I am not mistaken, their RAM is more likely 2400MHz in practice. A bit slow by modern standards but less odd!

    Personally, I run with 2133MHz RAM and I experience significant loading stutters even with a good CPU and fast NVMe SSD. I suspect that my RAM speed may be a factor there, though unfortunately it's not something I have the means to isolate and test scientifically. Many people who report less or ameliorated stuttering tended to have faster memory from 3200-3600MHz (and newer Ryzen CPUs, which is worth noting). I am curious about the effects of RAM speed on tile-loading stutter on TSW, and if there is any effect, the difference between Intel and AMD CPUs.

    Cheers
     
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  27. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    RAM can certainly have impacts. My RAM wasn't running dual channel when I first rebuilt the machine because the Asrock board didn't automatically configure it. After turning that on its noticeably different just in general let alone games.

    Intel and AMD are much of a muchness and tend to leap frog each other in capability in their respective latest generation. Lately AMD seem to have had a early life reliability problem that you'll see if you watch various PC forums. People experience black screen, blue screen and boot failures but they all report that if they exchange their CPU then they're ok after that so it probably doesn't matter which one you choose.

    On the GPU front I do think Nvidia is quite well beyond AMD right now but give them a few months :).

    Paul
     
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  28. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    That is true, though I was thinking more along microarchitectural lines. Intel and AMD CPUs have very different core structure interconnects and internal data transfer speeds, with Intel using a ringbus design and AMD using what they call "infinity fabric." Long story short, AMD has significantly faster per-core speeds than Intel, especially transferring data between cores on the same core complex (CCX). If tile-loading is limited to only a couple of threads, a newer AMD CPU may hold a significant advantage over Intel with regards to loading lots of data very quickly, especially if paired with higher speed memory. However, like I said before, it is only conjecture that this microarchitectural difference affects TSW tile loading at all.

    Thanks for your input, Paul. I always enjoy seeing you around here. :)

    Cheers
     
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  29. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    It would be really interesting Callum B. to see comparable builds playing side by side wouldn't it? Mobo & CPU would be different, but with the same RAM, same SSD and same GPU. Same windows build and as much as possible same drivers.

    We'd better be careful mate or some my-cpu-is-better evangelist will come and tell us off for being so reasonable lol. I've been building PC's way too long to pick brands and quite happily hop back and forth based on bang for buck. Benchmarks on whatever you built are the great story tellers :).

    I do notice that a lot of the people here with issues do have older hardware, and some of them have the mentality that must have the latest and greatest. A bigger CPU doesn't necessarily mean better. My youngest learnt that the hard way when without talking to me he bought himself the latest and greatest CPU and GPU he could get. Spent about AU$5000 on it but he got a rubbish motherboard, slow ram, slow SSD and a tiny power supply to save money. Funnily enough it didn't go too well when he put it together. After getting rid of the junk he now gets the performance he spent all his savings to get. I had to finance the recovery upgrade because he was broke but at least he's happy again.

    Paul
     
  30. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    Hello, I have a mid-range PC and am in ultra quality at 30 FPS and I have no jerky mic.

    I give you my Nvidia parameters as well as my PC configuration.
    I specify that I have no mod, no stuff in the "engine" file and I am under directX 11
    I have all the DLC and other than a very minimal tile load, no lag.

    Here is my PC configuration:

    my screen is a 27 inch 1080P AOC

    Nvidia 970 gtx GPU (KFA Black edition)

    [​IMG]

    CPU I5 6400, 16gb ram (2133) B150 mortard MSI SSD 1to Crucial (only for tsw2) + SSD and DDR 250gb and 1tb


    [​IMG]

    here are my nvidia settings


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I voluntarily block my FPS at 30 for more confore in the sound level of the CG fans.

    you can do the same by blocking your FPS at 60 it also works (I tested and no worries for me either)

    Tell me if it's good for you too.

    Good day to all.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2021
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  31. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I concur with the OP about stuttering, every 15 or 16 seconds, (yes that precise) the whole sim freezes for about a 3rd of a second for me sound too, it is awful and destroys the immersion for me, this problem was introduced a while back with an update, Natalie acknowledged it and said she would pass it on, nothing has been said or commented on it by DtG since and you can clearly see it on the streams and yet?
    I am running an RTX 3080 with an i9 and 32 Gb of ram.
    As expected:
    Overall this PC is performing as expected (59th percentile). This means that out of 100 PCs with exactly the same components, 41 performed better. The overall PC percentile is the average of each of its individual components.
    Processor With an outstanding single core score, this CPU is the cat's whiskers: It demolishes everyday tasks such as web browsing, office apps and audio/video playback. Additionally this processor can handle typical workstation, and even moderate server workloads. Finally, with a gaming score of 101%, this CPU's suitability for 3D gaming is outstanding.
    Graphics 217% is a record breaking 3D score, it's almost off the scale. This GPU can handle all 3D games at very high resolutions and ultra detail levels.
    Boot Drive 208% is an exceptional SSD score. This drive is suitable for heavy workstation use, it will facilitate fast boots, responsive applications and allow for fast transfers of multi-gigabyte files.
    Memory 32GB is enough RAM to run any version of Windows and it's far more than any current game requires. 32GB will also allow for large file and system caches, virtual machine hosting, software development, video editing and batch multimedia processing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  32. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    Out of curiosity I did your test with my PC.
    I must say I am more than satisfied. (73 percentile)

    [​IMG]

    I must also say that this PC is only used for me to play and go on the internet.
    No other programs on this PC only windows 10 pro and games.

    Like what having a big machine is not necessarily useful for TSW2
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2021
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  33. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    That is a decent outcome zawal.belili I built my machine higher in my latest build because I like to last three or four years. I also do video production with this beast and rendering uses the GPU heavily. 9% background CPU is a bit high. You might like to look at what runs in the background from boot and get rid of anything not necessary.

    Paul
     
  34. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I ran the test and all my SSDs are unterperforming. This is because my mainboard is like 12 years old and SATA speed is the limiting factor. Since my CPU (i7-920 Extreme) is old too, my 2060 Super won't help too much.
     
  35. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    [QUOTE = "paul.pavlinovich, post: 257397, member: 20654"] C'est un résultat décent [USER = 11662] zawal.belili [/ USER] J'ai construit ma machine plus haut dans ma dernière version parce que j'aime durer trois ou quatre années. Je fais aussi de la production vidéo avec cette bête et le rendu utilise fortement le GPU. 9% du CPU en arrière-plan est un peu élevé. Vous voudrez peut-être regarder ce qui fonctionne en arrière-plan à partir du démarrage et vous débarrasser de tout ce qui n'est pas nécessaire.


    For me at startup:

    3% To do nothing

    skype, windows security antivirus, google, ccleaner and the usual windows stuff (the minimum of course)

    Everything else only starts manually if I need it, like steam for example, it does not start automatically but only if I click on it to start it.

    As said, this PC is only used to play and surf the net.

    Yours is of course excellent, it is even very very good and adapted to your needs I'm sure.
    I built my PC 5 years ago according to my needs.
    Today my needs have not really changed except maybe one or two more "greedy" games like Pcar3 or wrc 9 but it also runs in high and ultra "mixed" quality and as I keep my 27 inch screen in 1080P I would not need a much better PC for at least 3 years.

    In 3 years, I think I would take a basic I5 like the current i5 6400 so an i5 serie 12 maybe and a basic style 3060 CG to be able to play in 2K at worst but 1080p is more than enough for me.

    I also have a 4K screen and frankly 50cm from my head there isn't a huge graphic difference.

    If you only play games at 1080p like me an average PC will be more than enough, but you still have to build your PC according to your needs not what you get sold.
    A CG 3080 is certainly a must but why take so much if I don't need it .....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2021
  36. cp1400

    cp1400 Member

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    Since you insist, I've done the Benchmark (Oh, and I might have forgotten to mention, this is a laptop (Clevo Desktop Replacement 17.3''):

    upload_2021-2-24_15-27-42.png

    To be fair and as I said before, I don't have any performance issues with other games (Hitman 3, Assassins Creed, GTA V etc) But those microstutters seem to be somewhat TS / TSW related for some reason.

    EDIT: Also, the SSD is arpox. 3 years old which is also when I bought it. I have 2 internal SSD's: One Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500GB and an Samsung PM961 (Health Status 99% and 80% respectively, the 970 Evo Plus is more recent)


    That is correct sir, my RAM runs at 2400MHz Dual Channel. And yes, I'm well aware this build is 3 years old, but still surprisingly able in terms of gaming (Even on Ultra, with most games including recent ones)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  37. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Callum B. it is nearly identical to the gear I replaced in terms of performance. I run at 4k on a 27" monitor and it struggled with pauses and lag. I never tried it with 1080 to be honest. I do have a second monitor which is 1080 but I use that to have web browsers open while I play games - usually watching YouTube.

    The 80% health status on the SSD isn't a disaster but it does mean there are bad areas of flash. This would be more of a problem on a traditional spinner drive because hunting for spare blocks takes ages but on an SSD not so much but I would still look to replacing that SSD soonish as its on the way out.

    Paul
     
  38. aceridgey

    aceridgey New Member

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    I don't think limiting fps on a gsync monitor is the way to go.

    It has actually been behaving a little better on the last run through.

    This has been using full overcast.
     
  39. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    I watched a few YouTube guides on settings up the Nvidia Control Panel (the base settings not a profile for TSW2) and noticed a slight performance improvement, in terms of stuttering.

    I gave a 27” 144hz 1440p GSync monitor the in game FPS is capped at 60, now if I run unlimited FPS I get between 110-120 but you can hear the GPU working hard in the background, capped at 60 it’s a quiet as a mouse, and buttery smooth apart from the occasional stutter as mentioned.

    Is it worth changing the refresh rate of the monitor?
     
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  40. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  41. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    The specs of the machine itself look great and it gets decent reviews, but it looks like the benchmark tool failed to complete everything. Did you get any errors running the tool?

    With your RAM check what slots it should be in for your motherboard to run it dual channel and make sure its configured as dual channel in the bios. Most boards want it in alternate slots - so if you've got four put it in 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 - either would be fine but if its in 1 and 2 or 3 and 4 then depending on the board it might be running slowly.

    Paul
     
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  42. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    you could have a 3090 you would have stuttering too.
    Nothing to do... same problem since the game is out.

    and I didnt have any stuttering on TSW1 :D
     
  43. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Hello again (sorry!)

    Thought someone with better technical knowledge can explain!

    My monitors refresh rate is 144hz (G-Sync compatible).

    In the background on the monitor settings I can have the monitor refresh rate constantly displayed.

    I was playing TS2021 earlier this evening with the frames capped at 60FPS. The monitor refresh rate remained constant at 144hz, throughout, despite the a drop in FPS in TS2021 at times between 45-50.

    Now in TSW2 I have the frames capped at 60FPS too, but weirdly the refresh rate of the monitor jumps around between 57-63hz at times in when I have the settings open, which I thought was bizarre, so why is the refresh rate not 144hz?

    Can anyone help? Is this a cause of slight lag/stutters? What settings can I play around with?
     
  44. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    They're not strictly related but since you're using G-Sync the video card might be reducing the monitors refresh rate to match the FPS from the game. I've never experienced a G-Sync monitor. Out of curiosity I did some googling and I did find a fairly good explainer that keeps it simple. https://www.velocitymicro.com/blog/refresh-rate-vs-frame-rate/
     
  45. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    paul.pavlinovich yep, it was exactly this! Turned G-Sync Off, monitor rendered at 144hz. It’s a curious thing, if I understood more, I could have a good play with it!
     
  46. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Turning NVIDIA´s low latency mode to ON may help a bit to battle stuttering, specially on high fps targets. This option is available on NVIDIA control panel and it limits the queued frames to 1 to have more stable fps in average.

    You can even try the ULTRA setting which fully minimizes the queued frames and reduces latency when Vsync or Gsync are enabled.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
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  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That just about eliminated stuttering altogether!

    But I should say, that was to get rid of the little bit of frame-sync stutter; the big ones I got rid of with

    r.TextureStreaming=0
    r.Streaming.FullyLoadUsedTextures=1
    r.Streaming.HLODStrategy=2

    (This is actually belt-and-suspenders, since all three force textures to load at game start rather than progressively).
     
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  48. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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  49. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    I have really bad stuttering on some of the older routes such as GWE. I put that down to route optimisation more than anything else as they are coming on 3.5yrs old so it's not surprising
     
  50. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I seem to be noticing a lot more recently too. Had one earlier mid route which was nearly 12 seconds
     

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