From Optimism To Pessimism - Existing Dlc And Bug Fixes

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by LucasLCC, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    When TSW 2 was originally announced I was strangely optimistic for the release. Perhaps I thought DTG were starting to care about the community. However, from the stream it seems that this optimism was misplaced, specifically in relation to fixing existing bugs.

    The M3 was released less than a month ago, with several immersion breaking bugs (acknowledge button causes emergency brake, horn sound is quieter with window open than when closed, etc), and it now seems that after just three months the product will be unsupported with no further fixes. If I knew these bugs were here to stay, then there's no way I'd have purchased this DLC.

    The Class 20 is due next week. I won't be purchasing it unless we can have it crystal clear that bugs will be fixed (as there will be some, always is with any product).

    NTP still has memory dump bugs for console users. The class 47 is majorly under powered.

    Trains clip platforms, the 204 clips a bridge. There's incorrect speeds etc.

    Bugs happen, we all understand that. But to just discard these bugs is just disappointing. Bug fixes don't bring in direct revenue, but they do improve faith and increase sales in the future.
     
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  2. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I do not think that the legacy bug thing is true - otherwise it would be impossible for anyone to purchase the Class 20.
     
  3. FileTrekker

    FileTrekker Member

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    They admitted on the stream they won't be bothering to fix or update any current content and it'll remain broken as the day it was released.

    But they barely fix bugs anyway. Most routes have major issues they've never bothered to fix. Onwards and upwards to the next DLC they can charge you for, right? No time for fixing things.

    If they had competition they'd be slaughtered. Mainstream AAA games would be getting hammered for trying to pull this kind of crap.
     
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  4. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    So I guess the NEC: New York route won't get it's bugs fixed and what about the LIRR route. These routes have alot of potential and it would be great if the earlier routes with bugs can get fixed. None the less, I am optimistic about TSW2 and look forward to the upcoming roadmap and Q&A's that will soon arrive as TSW2 is being developed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
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  5. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    For clarity the question was asked on Discord, and the response from the community manager was there will be absolutely no bug fixes.

    Come on DTG, pull your finger out here. Is it really unreasonable to expect fixes to paid products?
     
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  6. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    There is the problem, TSW's only other serious competition is......TS1

    TSW is an arcade game, they should drop the 'sim' from the title. I'm just hoping there is a company out there secretly beavering away on a Simulator that will blow us all away and deliver what most of us are asking from a true 'Simulator' because I'm afraid DTG and TSW are no longer the answer
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
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  7. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They'll remain as broken as the day TSW2 is released. DTG rep said yesterday that fixes being worked on now will be complete. Matt stated in the stream they won't work on any more TSW1 content from TSW2 release date

    Still shocking for those who expect all content to be fixed (a fair assumption), but not quite as bad as stated
     
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  8. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I imagine that the M3, and class 20 (unless it's 100% perfect), will never have a patch.

    It's once again complete complacency for existing customers.

    Whilst there was other disappointing things in yesterdays stream, this was the number one point that really has annoyed me. It shows no regards for any money already spent on TSW.
     
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  9. FileTrekker

    FileTrekker Member

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    Nope.

    He said quite boldly on the stream at least 4 or 5 times that there'll be no fixes or updates to the current content and that the 'feedback won't be addressed.' He stated quite categorically they have no intention on working on TSW content any further as of now.

    TSW is dead and none of its current issues are getting fixed. It's content is getting ported over but in it's existing broken state.
     
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  10. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    And not even all content will be ported. We will be provided with a list of what is and isn't coming.

    It really is like moving house, forgetting to pack the kitchen, but remembering to bring the broken sofa with springs exposed.
     
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  11. FileTrekker

    FileTrekker Member

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    Yeah, that wasn't very clear at all either. They made it sound like all content was coming over and it was then very vaguely stated that a "full list of content" will be provided towards the end of the stream, so I suspect this is just going to get worse...

    My bet is the content they improved in the last update with medal rankings etc. will come over but stuff like West Somerset Railway is just gonna get abandoned altogether and left behind? Who knows.
     
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  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I was quoting another DTG source on this forum from yesterday. I think it was Steve
     
  13. FileTrekker

    FileTrekker Member

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    They said very clearly there'll be no other updates. The Class 20 is getting released and that's the final update TSW will get? They said this super clearly several times.

    If you're expecting TSW's major long list of bugs to get fixed that's super unrealistic at this point. Sorry but it's true.
     
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  14. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Well - DTG still has pages on the Forums encouraging people to make bug reports.... what is the point in that.... if there is no intention to fix any bugs ever again....?

    Why would anyone buy the Class 20........?
     
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  15. FileTrekker

    FileTrekker Member

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    These are the questions everyone keeps asking, but they very very very clearly said no, they won't fix them. Even in that thread, he said no they won't action them.

    Beggars belief but it's true.
     
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  16. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the bug-reporting pages are there superficially. Maybe they are a requirement made by Microsoft and Sony... and so DTG can say something like "Of course, we take bugs seriously, and we have a process for dealing with reported bugs - look here...."

    ..... but in reality they have no intention to fix things in future. I will do some checking on the Sony requirements.... and get a view on how to take this forward - you know, get some clarification..... I am sure that they cannot have completely unsupported products on sale, not without a clear statement regarding the support status of the product. Not for long, anyway....

    DTG can try and do "expectation management" with their customers... but this won't cut any ice with their platform-partners.
     
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  17. NiTE

    NiTE New Member

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    I'm not even really sure why they are bothering to import some / all of the TSW content to TSW2 given that you can't use it with any of the TSW2 content and it won't get any bug fixes or new features.

    Personally if I was going to get TSW2 at all (which is doubtful to be honest) I'm not sure why I would want to download all my TSW routes again so I can play them in 'preserved' form when I could just use the original TSW which already has my existing progress in?

    Got to say I'm extremely disappointed that they have explicitly washed their hands of TSW and said none of the issues will ever be fixed, even with content that was only released a month ago (or yet be release for that matter). Not that they had a great record in fixing things before tbh, but this still feels like a bit of a slap in the face.
     
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  18. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Well-Known Member

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    Normally I would agree with that premise. What's the point of moving content over if it's not better?

    However, I have had TSW crash and dump to the desktop more in the past six months than ever before. So the "virtual" TSW1 game engine might get bug fixes that the normal one will never get. So if I happen to buy TSW2 and still want to play old DLC it might make sense to play it in that environment.
     
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  19. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The fossilised content ‘might’ work slightly better in TSW2 due to better optimisation in the new engine. Or it might not. We’ll have to try some of it and see if there’s any reason to download it all again, or keep it in TSW and save TSW2 just for the new content.
     
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  20. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I am still very much of the opinion that TSW content "in TSW 2" will actually be running on a clone of TSW.... a copy...., alongside TSW 2. Otherwise, you'd be able to run TSW rolling stock in TSW 2, use the Livery feature, etc....

    We'll see. If the controler maps for the TSW rolling stock and the TSW 2 rolling stock are different... then we'll know that by buying TSW 2, you are actually getting a copy of TSW as well.... It is possible that they are "converting" route and loco DLCs from TSW to TSW 2, but this seems to me to be utterly pointless, unless you can also use the TSW 2 feaures with the original TSW content.
     
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  21. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    DTG are making the bare minimum of changes to existing DLC so that it will run on TSW2. In fact they will have two versions of existing DLC - one to run on TSW1 & the modified version to run on TSW2. Technically you are correct that the existing DLC could run alongside the new DLC in TSW2 as well as make use of the new features but it would almost certainly require further changes to allow that. I don't know how much extra work would be involved per DLC but it seems clear that DTG have decided that the additional work and especially cost is not financially worth it even though they know they will get lots of flak for abandoning those DLC.
     
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  22. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Okay - I still don't get why you would "convert" TSW DLCs (locos and routes) to a revised TSW 2 core (and presumably do a huge amount of work and testing), if there is absolutely no intention to use any of the features of that core with the original TSW DLC... Most players would end up with double the DLC - maybe 40Gb to 60Gb... duplicated.......

    You would also have two versions of the DLC to maintain (inevitably).

    But if TSW simply included two cores (it would need a TSW core for anyone that hadn't bought TSW, but wanted to buy TSW DLC under TSW 2), the additonal burden at most would be maybe 4Gb.... reducing to maybe 2Gb if the original version of TSW gets deleted.....

    There is no benefit to "converting" and "preserving".... if the "conversion" doesn't achieve any benefits, but comes at a terrible cost in time/work for DTG, and a terrrible cost in storage space for every customer that has bought a lot of TSW DLC.... (and wants to keep their progress).
     
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  23. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Exactly this. I was watching the stream last night waiting for them to give a reason why I should bring my DLC across to TSW2 either because of improvements or because they would be compatible with the new features but the answers to both of those things was no. What is the point in duplicating my add ons, and loosing all my progress for no benefit whatsoever? Just seems daft.

    I think they’ve really shut themselves in the foot with no providing any support or upgrades for existing TSW2020 content. Will definitely make me think twice about buying DLC for TSW2 as when’s TSW3 comes out, the TSW2 add ons might be abandoned in the same way that TSW2020 ones are now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
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  24. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    The way DTG are behaving as a company, they won't be in business to release a TSW3, if only there is a company who would come in and buy the Train Sim project and develop it to the real potential it has and let DTG continue with their fishing and move onto other things
     
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