General Electric E60cp/h And E60ma

Discussion in 'Loco Suggestions & Proposals' started by NEC Railfan, May 17, 2021.

  1. NEC Railfan

    NEC Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Note: I do know this has been proposed in the past, but I thought it would be nice to go back and refresh it to current day, especially with the fact that almost all of the NEC is (and soon will be all) drivable in TS now.

    History and Design:
    The E60 was originally a freight design built by General Electric for the now-closed Black Mesa and Lake Powell Railroad (BM&LP) in 1973. Built as essentially an electric version of the C30-7, the E60C was equipped with GE Adirondack-casted FB-3 trucks with clasp brakes. Electrical equipment consisted of a single arm, Faivley style pantograph collecting 50kV 60Hz AC current, with thyristor rectifiers to convert the AC power into a suitable voltage for the six GE780 traction motors. Total power output was 125,000 lbs of starting tractive effort with 77,000 continuous, and 6800 total horsepower. The length of the locomotives was at 63 feet and 2 inches, with a width and height of 10' 7" and 14' 7" respectively. Total weight was 426,000 lbs of which 100,000 was ballast for traction.

    [​IMG]
    6001 at opening in 1973.

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    6005 in Cow Springs, AZ.

    The E60Cs were immediately a success, and continued to serve on the BM&LP for many years. However, all but one of the E60s were later supplanted by the E60C-2 variant after many years of good service.

    The E60C-2 was a revision in the 1980s as an update to the E60C. The only original buyer was National Railways of Mexico (NdeM) with 39 locomotives in 1982 for it's electrification scheme. After many hiccups in construction, the line opened in 1994 and was only electrified until 1997, when after privatization the company decided to simply dieselize, leaving many locomotives still stranded at GE. 22 locomotives were traded back for AC4400CWs, then came the secondhand buyers. The BM&LP was looking for an update to their useful, but tired E60Cs, so they bought 6. The Navajo Mine Railroad bought 4, Texas Utilities bought 3 as a more powerful replacement for their E25Bs, and the Deseret Power Railway claimed 2, then another 2, and later 3 more.
    [​IMG]
    NdeM EA022 on the short-lived electrified portion of the network at Valle de Mexico in 1995.

    [​IMG]
    Deseret Power Railway E60C-2s pulling a long train of loaded hoppers.
    Specifications were similar to the E60C of prior, but with two cabs at each end, GE 752AF traction motors, and a length of 70 ft. and 10 3/4 in. Tractive effort values were similar at 117,000 starting and 82,000 continuous. The NdeM originally was electrified at 25kv 60Hz, but the Deseret and Black Mesa locomotives were converted to 50kV.

    With all that freight context out of the way, we move on to the main meat of the story, Amtrak's passenger variant.

    In the early 1970s Amtrak's Northeast Corridor was struggling. Rolling stock consisted of ex-PC, nee-PRR GG1 locomotives, which were nearing 40 years of age and limited to 85 mph for safety reasons, as well as the unreliable Budd Metroliners. Amtrak desperately needed a replacement, but no locomotive builder offered a mainline passenger electric locomotive. To import a foreign design would be too time-consuming and costly. Thus Amtrak looked to GE for an adaptation to the E60 design. 26 locomotives were ordered at a cost of $18.4 million equal to $110 million today, with 15 intending to be fitted with steam generators, and the remaining 11 with head end power. However, Amtrak received a large amount of Budd Amfleets during the proceedings, so the number of steam generator locomotives dwindled to 6. The E60s equipped with generators are designated E60CP, while those with HEP are designated E60CH.

    The E60s had a top speed of 120 mph, with a length of 70ft 3in. They weighed only 387,000 lbs compared to the 426,000 of the E60C. They were fitted with FB-3 Rockwell/GSC designed trucks. The locomotives were the first to wear Amtrak's Phase II paint scheme to fit with the Amfleets.

    [​IMG]
    Amtrak #951 passes through Marcus Hook, PA with steam-heated heritage cars in 1978

    [​IMG]
    Amtrak #969 passes through the same location with Amfleet cars on the same date.


    The E60s were equipped with Nathan P01235 air horns. Here are a few samples with my favorite 80s railfanning video.


    While the locomotives were equipped with the same conventional tried and true mechanical systems, outperforming the Metroliner substantially, they had many other operational issues. When applying power upon starting they would sway from side to side, stressing the old rails. Eventually an accident did occur, when an E60 test train fell between the rails in Elkton, Maryland. upload_2021-5-17_10-17-19.png

    Luckily no one was injured, but it was clear that the aforementioned FB-3 truck design was to blame. Being a freight-style truck, it put unnecessary stress on the rails at high speeds, and the Federal Railroad Administration restricted them to 85-90 mph, essentially undoing what they were designed for. The locomotive's weight and general size also contributed to the issues. Amtrak still desired to clear them for 110 mph however. In 1977 Amtrak decided to import a foreign locomotive, the Swedish Rc-4. A locomotive based on the Rc-4 was built by a consortium of ASEA, EMD, and Budd (for carbodies) was soon ordered, the venerable AEM-7.

    [​IMG]
    Amtrak #901 and #966 at Ivy City Yard, Washington DC in the 1980s. This photo clearly shows the size differences between the two models.

    With the arrival of the AEM-7s, Amtrak began to slowly phase the E60s out of service. Two were sold to the Navajo Mine Railroad in 1982.
    [​IMG]
    LOD21 in 1984 at Farmington, NM.

    New Jersey Transit purchased 10 E60s in 1984 for service on the North Jersey Coast Line.
    [​IMG]
    NJ Transit #962 at South Amboy, 1986.

    Between 1986 and 1988 Amtrak rebuilt their E60s to improve their reliability, changes included moving the headlight to above the windshield, removing the gyralights, and removing the "ghetto-bars" on the windshield, which would protect the driver some vandals throwing rocks at the windshield. The E60CPs had their generators removed, (4 were refitted with HEP) and the E60CHs had their HEP rebuilt. The rebuilt E60s were classified E60MA, which stood for "Motor Alternating." The MAs also weighed 22,000 lbs. less. They were assigned to longer, slower long-distance trains on the NEC, such as the Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Crescent, Montrealer, and even in push-pulls along the Keystone Corridor, while the Toasters pulled the fast regional trains.

    On NJT, in the 1990s it received the ABB ALP-44, a redux of the AEM-7. By 1996 it had received 32, and the E60s were slowly phased out, being gone by 1998. Number 958 was saved by the URHS New Jersey chapter.

    The Amtrak E60s would soldier on until 2003, when they were put in storage and retired. Number 603 was sold in 2004 to the RRMPA in Strasburg.

    jg16s285klcz.jpg
    E60 #603 posing with AEM-7 #915, its sister locomotive and one of the two preserved AEM-7s. I had the pleasure of visiting both in 2019, and hope to see them again soon after this pandemic is cleared up.

    As another interesting side note, E60s could not work in MU properly if I recall, as the idea was that one locomotive could handle any train load. In the rare case that when a doubleheader did happen, there had to be two crews for each locomotive, like the steam days. Definitely some interesting scenario potential - An E60 locomotive breaks down and you have to coordinate with the crew to tow it back home to DC, and then Ivy City.

    In Context
    Now the question is how to get this locomotive type into the sim. I'll break this down into 5 subcategories: Audio, Modelling, Simulation, Features, and Scenarios.

    Audio:
    Many samples of the Nathan P01235 air horn exist, and since it has a mostly unique application, no recycling horns! The bell is a standard GE steel bell of course. The engine sound seems to have a unique whir distinctive of the AEM-7's hum. The traction motor is the 752, so similar to the Dash 7 line.

    The freight variants of the E60 may also be helpful resources in that they're still running and at low speed.

    Modelling:

    While I am not specifically aware of how many measurements exist, there are a lot of photos of different parts of the locomotive available, especially since there is a preserved example. A few parts could also be recycled, such as the P30CH trucks, with some modifications to whatever might differ of course.
    upload_2021-5-17_11-44-55.png

    [​IMG]
    Body shell is simple, and the pantograph is even reminiscent to the Class 85/86 pantographs, so there might be something there to start off with.

    621cab.jpg
    Cab is an interesting one, as this is the only image I could find, though then again a preserved example exists, and perhaps Strasburg could open it up for someone to research. But as we can see here there is the GE-style AAR control stand, already a step up in terms of reusability.

    Simulation:
    I'm not sure whether this locomotive suffered from the infamous GE "throttle lag" that existed for a long time on the U-boats, Dash 7s and 8s, though it shouldn't just blast away either and hit 100 in 5 seconds. So just a more powerful AEM-7 simulation could work. What I DO want and with passion, is to simulate the swaying of these locomotives when accelerating, like the prototype. It's very rare in Train Simulator for the cons of locomotives exist, they're always just perfect runners, without any of the defects. You can feel the sway (more shaking) already on some locomotives, such as the Toaster (with mods) if you apply full throttle. But for this one it has to be a little more exaggerated, and feel like you're in control of a powerful electric beast slowly pulling out of Washington Union station with a long Silver Meteor consist bound for New York.

    Features:
    Okay so for this section it'd be the amount of things you get to do on a locomotive and just little details, and also perhaps things like rolling stock.
    Little things:
    - Multiple-state headlight control (something similar to Reppo's models or the U36C) oh and flares that don't look like a nuclear reaction. I liked the E8 ones.
    - Instrument Lights
    - Openable cab windows
    - Openable cab doors (this would be a novel feature that would make things like "getting off the locomotive" possible)
    - Posable sun shades
    - (On pre-MA E60) operable gyralights.
    - HEP controls for the MA and CH
    - Steam generator controls for the CP
    - Step and track lights (if applicable)
    - The ability to chose pantographs (often times electric locomotives are linked to only one pantograph, which can get annoying since in real life you can raise the front pantograph and run off that).
    (There might be more that just hasn't come to my mind yet).

    My vision is for scenarios to take place on the Washington - Baltimore route, as it looks the best.

    Rolling Stock:
    - Amtrak E60CP/CH in Phase II
    - Amtrak E60MA in Phase III
    - Various heritage rolling stock (E8 stuff works)
    - Amfleet I and II in Phase III (already has been done for the Pooch DLC)
    - Amtrak F40PH Phase III (bundle the cali zephyr one like the E8 did with the U36B) - AI Only
    - Amtrak AEM-7 Phase III no ditchlights (another little gem that can be a side selling point). - AI only

    Scenarios:

    - First Day:
    Description: You are a newly promoted NEC engineer who has already gotten a feel for the toasters, but now needs to tackle the beast.
    Briefing: Take a Northeast Regional from DC - New Carrolton as part of a certification test.
    Duration: 15-20 Mins (or however long DC-New Carrolton is)
    Difficulty: Easy
    Locomotive: E60CH
    [​IMG]

    - Silver Lining - Part 1: (gotta have those cheesy names)
    Description: It's the late 90s, run an E60MA from Baltimore Penn south to DC for an engine change, though adverse weather is on the way.
    Briefing: Run a non-stop Silver Meteor from Baltimore Penn - DC
    Difficulty: Medium
    Duration: 45 Mins
    Locomotive: E60MA
    [​IMG]

    -
    Silver Lining - Part 2
    Description: Continuing from our last scenario a storm has begun raging throughout eastern Maryland and a Northeast Regional is due out, will you be able to plow through the storm and make it to Baltimore Penn on time?
    Briefing: Attempt to run a Northeast Regional between DC Union Station and Baltimore Penn on time.
    Difficulty: Hard
    Duration: 50 mins
    Locomotive: E60MA
    [​IMG]

    - Retro Rescue (hah)
    Description: An E60 has suffered Mechanical failures at BWI Airport, and needs to be pulled back to DC, and then towed to Ivy City Maintenance Facility.
    Briefing: Rescue a broken down E60 and tow it back to Union Station, then tow it to Ivy City yard.
    Difficulty: Medium
    Duration: 40 mins
    Locomotive: E60CP
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Conclusion:
    Wow, what a write, definitely took a fair bit of time to put together, but I'm proud of it, and I hope DTG pays attention to this, and maybe even gives it a go, who knows? The more obscure, yet important locomotives always seem to be overlooked, so what if we go about fixing that?
    P.S. I am aware DTM are considering this, but they have their own important projects to plow through and I don't know if they can pull it off considering what I saw with the DL-109.
    But that should be it for now...

    EDIT: I seem to have found a picture of 603 at a time when it still had its gyralight, but retained the Phase III paint scheme.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
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  2. CJM21292

    CJM21292 Well-Known Member

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    YES This needs to happen i dont know what DTG is waiting for this engine is long overdue for ts2021
     
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  3. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    The American Loco designers did not like their engineers to have a clear view ahead :o
     
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  4. NEC Railfan

    NEC Railfan Well-Known Member

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    At least you have cab signaling to tell you the aspects, though I do agree that the control stand gets in the way somewhat.
     
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  5. NEC Railfan

    NEC Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Hm well this is interesting, so I overlayed an E60 drawing over a P30CH one (should be mostly accurate) and it came out almost the same size.
    upload_2021-5-20_13-59-16.png
     
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  6. NEC Railfan

    NEC Railfan Well-Known Member

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    hm yes.... RailWorks64 2021-05-20 17-06-31.png
    I love how this turned from a suggestions thread to an actual attempt thread.
     
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  7. CJM21292

    CJM21292 Well-Known Member

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    are you actually trying to make it?
     
  8. NEC Railfan

    NEC Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Well kind of, I'm taking the trucks from the P30CH and all one has to do is create a bodyshell and frame to put over it. But who knows since I can't 3D model for my life. If I did know how to a lot of projects would have been completed.
     
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  9. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent idea and how about giving the locomotive service Philadelphia to New York section one of those is
    Silver Express
    You must operate this E60MA service out of New York Penn Station bound for Miami via Philadelphia 30th Street Baltimore Penn Station and Washington Union Station. Another driver will take over from you at Philadelphia 30th street station for Washington Union Station. If The missing section Baltimore Philadelphia is built then you can operate the entire service to Washington DC just like how the Western Main lines is operated. On the New York to Washington section long-distance trains to Florida are only pick up but on the Northbound side it's discharge only
     
  10. benhhng

    benhhng Member

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