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General Thoughts On Tsw And Developments

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This probably sounds like another rant thread, but I’d like to share my personal thoughts and opinions on TSW.

    Personally, I don't think this game really does cater for all as DTG like to say it does.

    Why you ask?
    It’s barely a simulation seeing as so many things are still missing from it.
    - There’s no wheel-slip. I could go full throttle whilst it’s raining and the will be no difference in acceleration
    - There’s no variable adhesion - This links to my first point
    - No neutral sections - Does DTG even know what this is?
    - No cold starts at the start of service

    These are just a few quite important things missing from the game. Instead they add gimmicks like medals, scores and mastery. Which I’d like to add, did anyone actually ask for these things? Like seriously?

    So when DTG get annoyed at people for calling it an arcade game, just look above at the points above I listed. That’s exactly why it’s referred to as an arcade game. There’s no skill or variation in driving. Every weather setting results on the same amount of adhesion, which gets repetitive and boring, fast.

    How DTG can help to cater for ALL players depending on experience.
    They need to add easy and advanced driving controls so it is suitable for all players. How many times have we seen someone say “how do I get X train to work?”

    I really don’t think the interactive tutorials are anywhere close to providing a first timer with the confidence and knowledge of how to drive and operate a train.

    All this could be avoided if they provided the player with difficulty options as well as a proper manual, instead of a five minute interactive tutorial, which barely covers the basics.

    A manual you can view right in front of you, whilst driving a service. It also allows you to look for a specific issue you need help with.

    Did I think TSW would be a lot more advanced three years ago, when first launched?
    Absolutely. When first launched, I had a lot of motivation and hype in this brand new simulator. Three years later, we are still missing a lot of core simulation features. My expectations have since lowered significantly and I expect nothing more than mediocre DLC and short routes.

    I welcome all comments, whether you agree or disagree. So feel free to comment your thoughts below.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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  2. deki32

    deki32 Active Member

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    You summed it up perfectly. To be honest, my daily fix of simulation comes from ZUSI. TSW in its current form is pure eye candy and some light simulation with lots of bugs and glitches. That in its own is not too bad, but the biggest issue for me is the complete lack of transparency from DTG. Even after 4 years we still don’t know what the hell is going on with this simulator. What i mean by this is “DTG, are you working on the Editor? DTG: Yes”. Fast forward 4 years, “DTG, are you working on the Editor? DTG: Yes”. That type of communication is utter cancer. You can insert pretty much any other question there( multiplayer, improvements to weather, skybox, physics) and you would get the same answer. Cheers

    EDIT: Does anybody even remember the monthly blog posts from DTG, where they kinda outline their general work order and stuff to do? Sure it contained a lot of PR gibberish but was miles ahead of what we have now. Complete silence that is...
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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  3. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I do not see this as another rant thread, you do bring up some good points there is so much more that can be added into TSW. Such as what you mentioned:

    - Wheel Slip and variable adhesion this would a great add into the simulation
    - Starting your pull out of yard or out of a siding on a rainy/snowy day
    - Not sure what is meant by No Neutral Sections maybe if you can expand on that a bit more
    - Cold starts I would love to see in the simulation
    - you walk to your locos at the shops track and climb aboard and start them up

    Some of the things I would have liked to see fir one and it seems everyone would like is longer routes, more task associated with longer routes such as:

    - Building a train in one yard then taking it up or down the line to the other yard
    - breaking the train down and delivering cars to their representative industries
    - bring back the empties or loaded cars and assemble them to a new train
    - With longer routes you would have crew change points
    - here you could have the option of stopping and saving to that point and continue another day
    - or you could continue to your next point whether it is another crew change point or your destination

    More radio chatter would be nice as well find it kind of boring not really hearing any radio chatter, I know there is in CSX but you can barely here it.
     
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  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I think as well as missing features, basic stuff was wrong from the start, like wether or not a train has passengers on board. Surely a system whereby if a train is in a depot or starting at a terminus it is coded in the sim to have no passengers on board before boarding begins, when stopping at a terminus all passengers alight, and in between, passengers both alight and board. That seems fundamental to me and should have been like that from the start, yet here we are still having passengers where they shouldn’t be. The complicated bit of having passengers getting in and out of a train was coded but the simple bit of whether they should was omitted.
     
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  5. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Since I tend to avoid passenger runs, I'll just note that the in the activities included in the Caltrain MP15DC add-on, all of the switched passenger units are empty. I'm pretty sure that this is also true of passenger cars switched by the Amtrak SW1000 in the NEC add-on pack. Sweeping generalizations are best avoided.
     
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  6. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think they have been trialling a fix for the issue on that route from the switcher update but my point was that it should have been like that from the very start, not from the 25th DLC.
     
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  7. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Neutral sections are used on all electrified lines. Both AC and DC lines. Neutral sections essentially ‘split’ bits of electrified sections up. Why is this important you’re probably wondering? During times of engineering works or emergency switch off, it’ll only affect one section of the railway, rather than a massive part.

    So how does it affect driving? When the driver approaches a neutral section, they have to put the throttle in neutral and let the train coast through the section. If not, there’s a risk of damaging the electrical equipment. Particularly on older trains.
     
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  8. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for clearing that up for me yes this would also be a great add
     
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  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    On the variable adhesion point, I don't think that was entirely DTG's fault. From what I've read variable friction was originally included in the version of UE4 that DTG built TSW on, but then UE removed that function, only adding it back in in a later version of UE, but because DTG have adapted the UE4 they use they can't just switch.

    It's one of the downfalls of a simulator which is tied to a particular game engine (and version of it) that you can't easily shift generations to get the latest addons and gizmos.

    I remember reading somewhere that when they started out with NTP they had to give different assets for loaded and unloaded wagons to bypass this limitation of UE rather than changing the stats of the wagon as it loads. I believe that stemmed from a question of "Why no half loaded wagons"
     
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  10. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    so it will never be a sim - unless they become somewhat competent and upgrade?
     
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  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    In other words start all over again trying to modify a different game engine...
     
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  12. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    They’re pretty much stuck in a muck regarding the game engine. The longer they stay on the current version, the harder it’ll be to upgrade.

    As well as the current version they’re on has quite a lot of limitations. Shadow rendering is a big obvious limitation in this version.

    They can either bite the bullet and upgrade the engine at the cost of having to fix the issues it causes or stay on this increasingly outdated version for the foreseeable future.
     
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  13. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    ...nope- this is not another ‘rant thread’ if you ask me- and thank you for posting this. You’re actually bringing up some very valid points- some of which would’ve helped me out when I was first coming up to speed on TSW 2020 2mos or so back.

    The thing that concerns me right now, is that DTG seems to be rolling out at least some code these days with issues that (I think) clearly should’ve been caught in the testing/validation phase- long before it ever reached players. And when you do reach out to them on getting some of these issues addressed (which I have done recently btw), you get no meaningful response back from them at all- basically implying there’s really no interest in doing anything about it. And that kind of approach will definitely kill off some future purchases for me... or at least delay them. I don’t need anymore bugs than I already have.

    That said- I *am* still a fan of TSW 2020... I have no other train-sim sw I play at this point (on any platform), and I’m enjoying all of the good things TSW 2020 brings to the table. I just wish the DTG folks would do their part and take ownership of some of the issues affecting this sw- both current and legacy issues. And if they do that, then they can count me in on future purchases... right now, not so much.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    From what I know they would have to basically start all over again either way because they're not working on a virgin version of UE, so they would have to rebuild from scratch, which would break even more than is broken now, which they would then probably take a while to fix.
     
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  15. sinnere

    sinnere Member

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    I enjoy this game but do agree that this is far from a simulator. The physics are way too arcade-like.
     
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  16. GT46PAC

    GT46PAC Active Member

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    I agree 100%
    TSW is an arcade game for console players.
    After 4 years, it is an EPIC fail
     
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  17. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I couldn’t agree more. Driving a train on TSW doesn’t feel like there’s any weight to it and with the adhesion being so high all the time, that certainly doesn’t help.

    The best way I can explain how it feels like is driving a Mario Kart round a track, as opposed to a proper train on rails.

    It just doesn’t feel right compared to driving trains in TS1.
     
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  18. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    There definitely is wheel slip. You may even see sparks. If you pull too hard using e.g. a class 45 while pulling a heavy train, you will see. I think I also experienced it with the class 31. Some engines are more sensitive to maltreatment than others.
     
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  19. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is more to do with the fact the the train is heavy and the engine is somewhat underpowered, especially the 31.

    The biggest thing missing is wheel slip caused by poor adhesion. Usually caused by poor rail conditions due to the weather or contaminated rails.

    The Class 377, for example, naturally has poor adhesion during poor rail conditions. So when it is drizzling for example, it should struggle to accelerate and brake.

    However in game, the weather makes not a single difference to adhesion which is a pretty big immersion killer. Especially when I expect to be slipping and sliding all over the place.
     
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  20. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    you can slap the 377 into notch 4 in pouring rain and itll pull away with no problems, you can also brake at the last second and stop on a 5p piece. thats why the driving is so mundane, it requires almost 0 concentration.

    just put it in notch 4 and browse instagram and look up every 30 seconds - thats how brainless TSW driving is.
     
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  21. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly how I feel driving a train in TSW. It’s so boring and requires little to no concentration thanks to no dynamic track properties. To add to that, each service is like an exact replica of the last one, like a copy and paste.
     
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  22. MillerPC

    MillerPC Active Member

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    That's why i've been saying this isn't no simulator lol. It's a train driving arcade game. CSX HH is the only one that feels like a decent enough simulation. Learning to fly a boeing 737 on XPLANE took a very long time from so many systems to work with and failures that can occur. ATS gives the feeling of driving a truck with narrow streets, different types of traffic and physics systems to work with. They all might very different from each other but the idea is still there. To simulate the real thing.
     
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  23. Steve 31

    Steve 31 Member

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    I totally agree that the lack of realistic wheelslip is one of the biggest issues. The 377 would definitely slip very easily in poor weather.
    There are signs that it can be done, I have had it happen a few times on Tees Valley. Just to make it interesting the other day I pressed the slave cutout button in the class 37 before leaving Lackenby on a loaded steel working with a pair of 37's. I didn't think it would make much difference but it did! I got a bit adventurous with the power handle and towards the top of the climb leaving the yard the wheelslip light came on and the WSP kicked in. The loss of momentum resulted in me stalling and the only way to get going again was to get the second loco working again. This shows it can happen and it happened in a realistic way. To be fair this is about the only time it has showed itself. It did happen yesterday when applying full power just after Middlesborough station but on this occasion I doubt it would have happened in real life. 2 37's in multiple on 24 empty HEA's at 25mph!
    This brings me onto another point. The HEA's don't seem that much different when empty or loaded? A pair of 37's on 24 empties seem to struggle and don't seem wildly different to when they are loaded.
     
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  24. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Another thing which has been on my mind is that there seems to be no long-term plans for TSW in which direction it is heading in, or what features they want to add to it to make it more realistic. What are their aims? What are their goals? What are they working towards?

    Everything seems to be very short sighted with the only thing on their minds is pumping out DLC after DLC.

    In three years of development I’ve seen very little changes and there seems to be no rush to make the game better or more realistic anytime soon.
     
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  25. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    Pretty sure we mentioned the sky box and things like automatic unit conversion 2 years ago.... They don't have a plan, they don't know what they want TSW to be
     
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  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Not sure why there would be... Especially why they would advertise such things, mainly because then you would get the wolf pack wanting dates, how it's going to work, why are you looking at that when you should be looking at this etc etc

    Fair enough some other companies put out some kind of road map, but companies also get ripped apart for what people think of as the "wrong roadmap", let alone not quite meeting that map down the line
     
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  27. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    Train driving in real life is mundane particularly of modern units such as the a Class 377 which are very easy to operate. The hard part of the job isn’t the ‘skill’ of operating the train as it used to be with the older locomotives but rather, maintaining concentration for long periods of time doing a very repetitive job. Driver underload is a massive thing in the industry now. Modern units such as the 377 are so good in low adhesion in part due to the onboard computers monitoring wheelslip and wheelslide on each vehicle individually and also auto sanders which activate when the above is detected.


    DC lines are not called neutral sections; they are called gaps. The ECW route has gaps implemented in TSW and so does LIRR I believe.

    The risk of not shutting off power is not so much to the train itself but the damage to the OHLE infrastructure. Besides, even if the driver doesn’t shut off power, the train will do it for you by opening the VCBs so there is no risk unless there is a problem with the train’s receiver.

    There are no routes on TSW in the UK that have neutral sections because none of them are electrified apart from Paddington to Hayes and Harlington but the first neutral section isn’t till beyond Heathrow Airport junction.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
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  28. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    I agree they're probably mundane in real life due to modern tech, but would you say tsw is TOO mundane/challenge less?
     
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  29. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Well-Known Member

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    I give up with TSW in all honestly. Like-wise when it came out I waited for GWE and thought wow.....this is really good. the detail, the graphics and open-world feel made it a new concept and with DTG stating this is very early stage i thought we'll be in for a treat.

    Nearly three years on and now I never get the urge of wanting to play the game. I never think 'oh id like to try this or that' because 9/10 Ive already done it. This also takes away my love for TS2020. With the arrival of the new graphics and being able to hop on and off/wait for a service ts now to me is in-adequate and looks cheap and fake.

    So where we do we go from here? We have a 25mile route being thrown out every 2months or so, DLC loco for exsisting USA or german routes which isnt to my taste.

    We still have little to no choices of driving a partial route or allocating a few hours to complete a route as they all are so short.

    Now I find myself popping on when I am really bored, and generally do one way trip on ECW then end up turning off on the return trip as I know the route already.

    I will not continue to invest in all DLC as it seems everything we have asked for.....every single answer is 'nothing on that yet, maybe at a later date'.

    It really is frustrating, the AI passengers do NOT have their own planned trips as DTG announced on release stating theyre all planned with their own route, there is 'no information on multiplayer yet' as they said this would be a key feature from release. There is no editor, and everytime we ask for longer routes on ALL live streams by HUNDREDS of different people we get 'we would like to in future'......there is no time like the present. Stop ignoring your customers and banging out mediocre content at high prices. I would happily pay 40-50 pounds for a FULL route, that has more than ONE train. 75miles plus one way......surely thats what trains are for.

    I hope they actually invest some time into improving the game and features otherwise this will be 'no plans to play it yet, maybe one day in the future' type game for all gamers.
     
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  30. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is how I feel too. Once I played one service along ECW, I feel like I've played them all and am often only able to play one service before getting bored and quitting TSW.

    This is why I miss scenarios from TS1, because each one was different and not an exact same replica of the last, like it is in TSW.

    TSW really needs variety in its service mode. Whether it being a few late running trains or some sort of dynamic event. This way it would feel different to the last service I played and keeping me occupied for a lot longer.
     
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  31. Teflon490

    Teflon490 New Member

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    I think the biggest issue above all ever listed is to create a game where you are stuck with one and the only version of the engine that was available at the time of creation of the game. If you can't update the engine, then all the other requests to fix issues and add features that might exist are pointless, because you simply can't address them. Brilliant thinking from the developers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
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  32. wxtr7

    wxtr7 Member

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    I can tolerate most stuff (I've only had TSW for a year, and didn't have TS1 before, so my expectations are probably lower), but there's a couple things that really ruin the experience. This is one of them. We get like 5 scenarios that make you feel like you're doing something, then 100+ scenarios of just green aspects and essentially the same thing. I try to mix up the weather, but since variable adhesion isn't implemented, it just changes the scenery.

    The other big thing is the audio in game, which is horrendous. Everything is horribly recorded or very clearly over-edited. Speaking just from the American stuff, the F40PH is the best engine in the game, but even it sounds over-modified. In addition, the engine audio volume is way too low. For these being big 12-20 cylinder diesel engines, they should be the primary thing you hear, and especially (on Caltrain) NOT quieter than the HEP engine. The new MP36 is especially bad about this, and I really wanna know why. I really like the MP36, but when you can't hear the engine and you're flying down the line in notch 8 and all you hear are the track/wheel sounds, it's ruins the immersion.
    Then there's the poor mixing of the different audio sources in game. For example, why are sounds from other trains just as loud, if not louder than the one I'm currently driving. Make a passenger stop at any station with another AI train, and their door closing sound plays as if it came from your cab, even if you have all the windows/doors closed. Same applies to crossing bells, AI engines, etc. IRL you probably can hear some of this, but it shouldn't be louder than your own train.
     
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  33. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Audio mixing in TSW is just horrendous.

    In fact I once heard in a live stream the sound of birds tweeting over the engine noise, whilst driving in the cab with the windows closed...
     
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  34. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    There’s this strange fixation with them having the sound of the engine getting louder with one window open, then louder by the same amount with two windows open, then the same amount louder with a door open, at the expense of what would happen in reality and of the engine sound coming through the fabric of the train with all the doors and windows shut. Then there’s the deafening sound in the cab of one of the German electric locos. The audio issues are worse on the console versions apparently. It’s all far too directional too, turning your head does not alter the sounds you hear that much in real life. I’ve learnt to live with it though and some of the sounds are actually quite pleasing, once you’ve opened enough windows and kept your virtual head still.
     
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  35. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I’m in the minority but generally speaking, I’m impressed by the sounds. There might be issues with certain traction but other than that, I’d say it’s far from horrendous. For example, the 377: the sounds of the fans/auxiliaries, traction motors, dynamic braking, sudden cut off of the power and fans when you go through a section gap and then kicking in again after the gap are all spot on to me. Even just the interaction of the clicky sound when you press a button, the sounds of the AWS/DSD, bell/buzzer, etc... I’m happy with.

    I can say the same about most British and American traction/routes although I don’t really play on the German ones but when I did, I didn’t find anything particular wrong about it. I find the Caltrain F40PH’s auto blended braking algorithm very impressive which deserves a thread of it’s own but the sounds of the dynamic braking- traction motors acting as generators- are nice. It’s no secret that I don’t like the HST physics but the sounds again are generally fine and I’m particularly impressed by the detail of the Mk3 coaches squeaking- sounds of the secondary air suspensions- as they leave the station.

    Sure, the sounds might not be perfect but to say it’s horrendous is a bit dramatic unless you’ve got specific traction faults such as the turbo described below.

    The turbo (Class 166) on the other hand is terrible. Sounds of the engine are hardly audible. When stopped at a station, you can’t hear the engines at all and it is completely silent even in the passenger area with passenger doors all open. You’re one foot inside the train next to the open door... no sound or vibration whatsoever like the engines are not running. You take one step to get in line with door or just outside train...engines can now be heard. Even electric trains aren’t that quiet. When in the cab, if you were able to open your cab window, that would partially solve the problem as you could just keep it open. The lack of sounds, lack of trains and lack of passengers all make the GWE route extremely lifeless.

    I haven’t forgotten about your question, I’ll try to answer it when I have more time. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  36. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    The claim was: there is no wheelslip. You may not be happy with all the physics and conditions, but it is time to be fair and accurate in the comments. There is wheelslip, so don't say there is not. Realistic wheelslip is never promised, so it can be on your wishlist and maybe at DTGs wish list. I feel a pity for DTG sometimes when I read the demands people have and the diversity, especially compared to the fact that paying Euro 30 for a route is considered as "overpriced". I am quite happy with what I get, even though there is no editor (that really sucks) and sometimes there are people on the tracks and the services can be boring because the dev team for this seems not really toplevel in creativity, but overall DTG is doing a fair job and the are still learning.

    The only real thing I want is an editor to create scenarios and timetables. If I get that, I believe the driving experience will be much better, despite all perceived issues depending on what you think is important.

    By the way, what we urgently need is realistic wear of the wipers, after driving in the rain for a long time they should work less and force you to visit a maintenance shed to replace them. I think, after the editor, that is the most important missing feature. I really do not understand nobody seemed to have noticed this gross failure that makes TSW suck. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  37. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    realistic driving < wiper wear.
     
  38. deki32

    deki32 Active Member

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    Working toilets> Editor> realistic driving> wiper wear ;). Cheers
     
  39. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    Wheelslip? I’ve not seen any of it whatsoever on any of the routes I play on. Are you able to take a video/screen capture of it?
     
  40. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    It's really sad that DTG forced all of you (including the one who can't count) to buy TSW in the first place, subsequently purchase all (less than someone thinks) subsequent add-ons, and finally waste so much of your valuable time scribbling about how worthless everything is. As old spray-tan would say, "Sad!"
     
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  41. Teflon490

    Teflon490 New Member

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    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed is king...
     
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  42. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    Some locos have skating, but if not exact.
    But frankly, the wear of the wiper blades, bof, bof ........
    See in cars with wc, if there is paper in the toilet ......
     
  43. Teflon490

    Teflon490 New Member

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    And from worn wipers there is only a small step to burnt bulbs...those also need replacement and this feature is sorely missing :)
     
  44. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    As a simulator, I think it’s fantastic. The traction, the route, the detail, the physics, the sounds are amazing and give a very realistic experience. (I’m going to ignore certain traction faults like the HST, 47, etc...) The 377 is phenomenal and it genuinely feels very similar to real life. Having said this, as many others have said including yourself, there is no variety. The issue with the testing phase for the product is that when Dovetail staff test it, they only play the route a few times. And sure enough, the game is amazing especially the first few times you play it. But they don’t factor in that players are not just going to be going up and down the route a couple of times but rather, 10s if not 100s of times and it does get extremely boring.

    For me the solution is simple: have more trains running around like in real life. I know they’re unable to do this because of software and performance issues but if they are able to overcome this in the future, it would be massive. And the best thing is that it would take very little effort to just put in more trains/services as opposed to developing additional features. Not only would it make a route come to life, seeing cautionary aspects will become a norm and will make the game far more interesting.

    I’m going to attach screenshots of departures and arrivals in a typical hour at London Paddington. In this example between 1300-1400, there are exactly 30 GWR trains departing or arriving and this isn’t even including Heathrow Express or Heathrow Connect which would take it close to 40. Compare that to what we have on TSW and we only have a fraction of those services. Imagine if you had something like the above, you’d be seeing cautionary aspects a lot more which is when you have to switch your brain on to prevent getting caught in a SPAD. Right now, seeing yellows are so rare that when I see them, my initial reaction is this is probably a bug such as a fixed red. I don’t play so much now but when I did, I used to deliberately try and get very early to stations or junctions hoping to see yellows but no, I would get a clear run because there physically is very little train traffic.

    There are potential for other scenarios as well such as empty trains or freight trains being put in goods loop waiting for a passenger train to overtake. Or how about a shunt to Royal Oak Sidings and back into London Paddington platform... while you sit and wait in the siding, seeing AI trains entering and leaving Paddington every couple of minutes while you wait for your slot back into the station.

    Of course, I’d love to see more features added with time such as low adhesion, automated guard, a fully functional TMS, dispatch monitors/CD and RA indicators, SDO, flashing yellows, GSMR radio, ATP, faults/failures etc... but any feature you add will get boring after a few hours of playing because whilst they improve the driving experience and make it more realistic, it still doesn’t get away from a completely lifeless railway. An example is the new FGW liveries they are doing for the GWE so there will me some purple coloured trains instead of green. (Granted it’s not going to affect driving experience but it is a ‘feature’ some people have been asking for). Sure, it will look cool for a few hours but guarantee it won’t take long for boredom to kick in.

    The other thing that I’m very surprised about is that they haven’t bothered with the variable turbo formation. Unless you play the down the line scenario, you only operate 3 cars which is a complete missed opportunity. Again, for very little effort, they could have added variety... you can actually get anything between 2 car and 9 car turbos. Don’t forget coupling/uncoupling scenarios and situations where you get red with 2 white lights to take you in to the station under permissive working instead of yellow. They’ve done the variable formation on the East Coastway but not much if any of the rest.

    I made a thread sometime ago about low adhesion.
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...g-low-adhesion-rain-snow-leaf-fall-etc.20387/

    Screenshots obtained by Real Time Trains

    DA886BC1-EB3D-4A84-BA79-3340A6B62CA5.png 60255B27-38C4-4C43-B207-DC24F7600647.png
     
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  45. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    With regard to this point which I completely agree with- is it not the case that each DLC is effectively standalone anyway? Given that then why not start afresh and write off fixing dlc that are already released. Its not as though there's a huge amount of improvement in them (think GWE for example). I'm thinking of it kind of like F1- at some point in a season resources are diverted towards next year's car, especially once the current car is shown to be flawed in a fundamental way. Poor analogy in many ways I know but why not just say ' yeah our version of UE4 is very poor, we are going to upgrade all dlc from here on in with a new version'. I'd love to know the actual reasons for persisting with a flawed product and whether or not its entirely cash driven..
     
  46. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    From my knowledge, yes and no... The assets and contents are within the DLC but the controls etc are within the main engine. I'm sure simugraph is in the core, even if the data which populates it is within the DLC so if Simugraph is written in UE4.x and they want to move the DLC to UE5 they would have to rewrite simugraph (maybe from the ground up) to meet the spec of the DLC requirements which could be what's broken in the first place

    And there's also the point that people have paid £300 or more for software they now can't use, or which may never work again... Leaves ashes in the mouth

    So they would need to work to make it that everything works(!) at least as well as it does now, even with the move to that new UE, which may have similar (or worse) problems than the version they're on now
     
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  47. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Excellent points, well made. Thought provoking and an interesting angle on the issues. Thanks for the insight. It'll be interesting to see if they try and reconcile these problems at the same time as generating revenue. Itd be almost as interesting to develop a design stress test for working through future direction decisions I reckon. Heres hoping for an exciting new pathway at some point anyway :)
     
  48. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

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    i think DTG is pass the point of no return on upgrading the game engine. there way to much DLC they need to fix once they updated the engine to engine 4. 25 i think it be on this version unreal 4 17.xxxx forever.
     
  49. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    They're actually on 4.16 with a few things added from later additions however it is pretty outdated by today’s standards and has a lot of limitations.

    It’d be a great shame if we end up stuck on this version. TSW 2021 would be an ideal time to release a core upgrade for the game.
     
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  50. khalidaliishmail

    khalidaliishmail Member

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    The lack of steam is getting frustrating. It would be fantastic to see something like a Gresley A3 in full Unreal Engine 4 detail that you can walk around and interact with. At this point I'd accept any steam. I appreciate that it's "hard to do", but still its like having a next gen flight simulator and then saying there are no propeller aircraft because they're "hard to do".

    What makes it worse is that there are very few alternatives available for simulating steam locomotives. The next best option seems to be Derail Valley, which has some rudimentary steam simulation and allows for free roam, but it's still in the early stages of development with limited content and there is no AI fireman, which also makes driving the locomotive impractical. That leaves either Train Simulator or Trainz. Trainz looks dated, has very mixed reviews and I'm not too sure about the quality of its content. Plus the latest one has questionable DRM. That leaves only Train Simulator, but that too looks increasingly dated, and its steam loco content/DLC seems quite sporadic and varying in quality.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
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