German Safety Systems = Complete Mystery?

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by shhweeet#4292, Oct 1, 2021.

  1. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    I finally took the plunge and tried a none UK route for the very 1st time driving the ICE in the scenario ICE To Meet You. Despite watching Matts excellent German Signalling tutorial video on YouTube several times the PSB and LZB safety systems I’m just not getting the hang of? I’ve sussed SIFA ( basically press circle ⭕️ every time that yellow light flashes on the hud and the female shouts SIFA! SIFA! and AFB cruise control I’ve worked out ok as well but PSB and LZB? Hum.

    I’ve done the run using just AFB and nothing else and got a gold medal and got somewhere near the maximum AP score but trying to use PSB and LZB is a disaster. Isn’t the whole point of safety systems to make it easier??

    Anyway PSB and LZB just isn’t clicking with me ( Must be an age thing ) but I do love the speed of the ICE and this German route overall though.
     
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  2. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    The point is to make it safer (IRL) and more fun in the game :) PZB
     
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  3. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    PZB security is not complicated. You must acknowledge each speed limit (usually 100km / h and less) and signal a warning. This protects the driver from overlooking a warning or restrictive signal. Sifa guards the driver's vigilance.
     
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  4. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    So basically PSB you need to acknowledge every time the speed limit changes and a signal changes from greens to a warning of some kind. is there anything else you need to acknowledge PSB for? I once tried PSB with SIFA activated and the SIFA acknowledgments seemed to cover PSB? I’m not sure about that though. I’m assuming acknowledging PSB you use the same circle button you use to acknowledge SIFA?

    How does LZB work? According to Matts video when in an LZB area with AFB activated the train drives itself automatically as in it slows and speeds up accordingly. That never works for me though so I’m obviously doing something wrong?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  5. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    That what I understood but for me they seem to make it less fun because I’m not getting my head around PSB and LZB obviously because I’m doing whatever wrong and not fully understanding how they both work. :)

    I do want to try and fully get the hang of PSB and LZB though especially if it does make the German routes more fun.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
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  6. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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  7. li150special

    li150special Active Member

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    PZB is a rather complex system. While acknowledging is rather on the easy side, it is not always intuitive what speed you have to reduce to. Spoiler alert: it is not always the one on the sign but rather depends on the PZB mode. This can be frustrating at times.

    Once it clicks, however, driving with PZB is good fun and I think DTG have done a good job to bring across the look and feel of the original system.
     
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  8. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    tbh acknowledging when to acknowledge PSB is still not easy for me. Just when I think I’ve cracked it PSB it slows me down to a stop and I’ve no idea why? Is it just me or should something like this not be so tricky to get ones head around I’m acknowledging speed limit changes and when the signals give me a warning different from green but still I’m falling foul. It might be me not going to the right speed limit though? I’m probably not understanding what to do when the G flashes up and those yellow PSB hz signals come up on the hud.
     
  9. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Once you acknowledge an adverse signal or reduced speed limit and the 1000Hz light comes on, if driving a passenger train, you must get your speed down to 85km/h within 23 seconds. Acknowledging the adverse signal or reduced speed limit is not enough.

    If you do not reduce your speed fast enough, you’ll get an emergency brake application and all the alarms will go off.

    If you can see an adverse signal up ahead, you should start slowing down so you have a realistic chance of reaching 85 km/h within the allowed time. This is especially important if the tracks are wet or icy where increases braking distance comes into play.

    Whilst learning PZB you should not use SIFA as this can complicate the learning process. Once you start to feel more secure in driving with PZB, you can reintroduce SIFA to the mix.
     
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  10. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Could someone point out which posts you need to acknowledge when using PSB? I get you need to acknowledge lights that are warning you but I’m not sure about which posts to look out for?

    Thanks in advance for any help with this.
     
  11. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    They are yellow triangle signs. They indicate a speed reduction and are positioned around 1km prior to a change to a lower speed limit.
     
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  12. li150special

    li150special Active Member

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    Okay, I may be wrong but I try to describe it from my point of view:

    You ACKNOWLEDGE (1) every distant signal with anything yellow on it and (2) any speed reduction (a yellow triangle with a number on it or a yellow/orange number on a signal) showing any single-digit number.

    The second question is then what to DO. If the 1000hz marker (the round yellow one on the HUD) does not light up. then just do what the signal tells you.

    If the 1000hz marker lights up, however, you have a certain time to get below a certain speed: (1) PZB mode O -> 85kph, (2) PZB mode M -> 70kph, (3) PZB mode U ->55 kph. N.B. this also applies if the number on the speed reduction is higher! E.g. you drive a PZB U train and pass a speed reduction sign showing "8". If the yellow marker is on, reduce to 55kph rather than 80kph.

    I hope that makes sense in the slightest.
     
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  13. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Matjamca and Ii150special. :cool:Very much appreciated Tomorrow I’ll have another go armed with this new info. I’m determined to crack this PSB thing even if it kills me. :D
     
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  14. Maverick_ng

    Maverick_ng Active Member

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    PZB (Punktförmige ZugBeeinflussung)
    LZB (LinienZugBeeinflussung)
     
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  15. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    PZB ( Intermittent cab signalling ) ?
    LZB ( Continuous train control ) ?
     
  16. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I will add my two cents!
    PZB was well explained so far, but in order to understand why it is doing what it is doing, let me elaborate:
    The three settings reflect the braking power of the train. Usually passenger services will run with the O setting, the other are for freight and heavy freight mostly. They will have a longer time until they can stop die to their heavy weight, so the system makes sure to reduce the allowed top speed and to restrict the speed once something on the track changes so that the conductor is able to bring the train to a stop in time.

    So with the standard passenger service pzb O (noticeable with the 85 showing on the dashboard) you are required to slow down to 85 once the 1000hz lights up, even when the route allows 90. This is all for safety reasons. In real life, you would slow down to 80 - so 5 kmh below the mark, just to have that bit of spiel. This is important, as you get the emergency break the moment you reach 85,1 kmh.

    Little tip, when you start a service, you will be restricted to 45 kmh, which is standard for a train that starts its journey. It takes some time until the restriction goes on its own, but you are allowed to free yourself from that restriction, if the next signal is showing green. So you start driving, the 45 restriction appears on the hud/dashboard. You check if you have a green upcoming signal, and if you do, you can press "pzb frei (the middle of the three pzb buttons)" and the 45 will be gone, and allows you to goupto line speed immediately.

    LZB is a mechanic that lets the computer drive the train.
    Basically, once you pass the LZB sign you hear a beep and some lights should appear. At this point you can just set AFB (which of course needs to be enabled before) to max, as well as your throttle. The train will speed up to the max allowed speed, and breaks perfectly fine in order to reach a speed reduction all on its own.

    Once under LZB, you need not look out for any pzb signs, because since the computer drives the train for you, you don't get checked for pzb at all in this time.
    So if everything is setup correctly, all you need to be doing when driving with lzb, is pressing sifa.
    Once you reach the end of LZB, a yellow light will flash, announcing the end of lzb. What you need to do then is pressing "pzb frei" so that the computer registers, that you have noticed the lzb end.
    When you pass the lzb end, you will be required to watch out for any signals on your own and are unde rpzb observation again.

    There is a super useful web page for German enthusiasts, which I will link here:
    http://www.tf-ausbildung.de/BahnInfo/pzb90.htm
    It is in German but maybe you can translate the compete page via Google.

    It shows all the restrictions, the signals, the different pzb modes, as well as what to do and when to do it (like what if my red signal turns yellow/green while breaking under pzb) and the graphics helped me alot understanding it.

    I found pzb to be weird and confusing, but I will echo what the others said, once you get the hang of it you won't play without it anymore. There is something deeply rewarding about it when doing it correctly!
     
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  17. shhweeet#4292

    shhweeet#4292 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for taking the time to give such a comprehensive explanation I really do appreciate it. :cool:
     
  18. smokeyjoe

    smokeyjoe New Member

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    Lots of people have already given you help, so I just want to say don't give up and everyone fails a lot before "getting it". I'm still on that path myself.

    One thing you can do on the Playstation is: whenever PZB emergency-brakes you, save the recording of your gameplay, and go back and review it to try to see what you missed. If you still can't work it out you can maybe ask here.

    I would also take Matt's advice and not turn on Sifa while you're concentrating on PZB. I'm not sure why LZB isn't working for you but maybe concentrate just on PZB first, or watch the video another time.
     
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  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    The point for it is realism but there's one problem us console players have it's the lack of dedicated PZB Acknowledge Sifa reset Waschsm button PZB Frei Befehl 40. You need to move the camera to them in order to use it for the PC it's much simpler because they have a dedicated button for those. You're going to hear Zugbeeinflussung for every single Sifa reset using Circle button PS4 PS5 on the Xbox it's your B button.
     
  20. Chas

    Chas Active Member

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    I know the feeling shhweeet#4292. I too have studied the tutorials by Matt and think they are excellent but still can't get my head around the German signalling and safety systems. I think it is just a mental block I have when it comes to anything other than British railway systems and trains. I put my failings down to being a close-minded and stubborn Brit who has watched too many episodes of Dad's Army.

    For anyone else interested in learning the German way, I stongly recommend watching this:



    And:

     

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