One of the things that has always annoyed me, and makes blind (as in not looking at the controls or popups) driving almost impossible, is that in some trains, holding down a key starts an animation of a switch / lever, instead of it just switching or moving. Some examples are the BR 442 Talent's cruise control up/down switch, and the new London underground train traction control handle. For these to do anything, you need to hold them down. A simple, short tap won't do anything. For the cruise control switch, it's not that big of a deal, since you can't over- or undershoot. It's infuriatingly annoying though, since you can't quickly flick the switch 4 times to increase the cruise control speed by 20 km/h. For the traction control handle, it's even worse. Instead of tapping A or D once to move it up or down, you need to hold it down for just the right amount of time, otherwise it'll just pop back into the setting it was in, or you'll overshoot into the next setting. The worst thing is: It's not like this in all trains! I remember some trains having very direct PZB buttons, where if you touch the key on your keyboard, the button ingame has been hit as well, but other trains (like the Talent) need you to hold the button down to do anything. Please DTG, a key hit on the keyboard should be a button hit, a switch toggled, or a lever moved ingame, and it shouldn't be dependent on how long the key has been held down. We already made the movement with our fingers, why do we have to simulate this movement ingame as well? I get that levers are notched, but that can be simulated by the number of keypresses, not the duration of the keypress. Hitting a button 3 times in a row is much easier than holding it for exactly x seconds. To be clear, I'm not saying: remove all animations for buttons, levers, etc., but I am saying that hitting A on the keyboard, should always increase your throttle setting by one notch, even if you've only hit it for a millisecond. Note: stepless levers like the combined traction lever in the Talent are fine, except for the notch at the 0 setting. If it's in 0 and you tap A, it should pop into 5% power. If it's in 0 and you tap D, it should pop into 5% brake. If you're at 5% power, you tap D twice to go to 5% brake. You should also be able to hold D down, like you can now, to move between 5% power and 5% brake as the game currently does. If I hit a key, I want something to change, not start to change, but return to its original position because I didn't hold the key for long enough.
I agree. Things like the throttle will play a click/clank sound like if it moves, regardless of if the actual throttle setting has been changed or not. It makes it impossible to drive hudless as you have no indication of if your attempt at changing the throttle with keyboard actually happened or not without taking your eyes off of what is ahead. You pressed the key for it, and heard a clank like it changed, but it just might have gone back to where it was. In real life you physical hand it on the control so you know where it is or not.
This is a tricky one. For starters, I agree that if there is a click or a clunk, that should definitely only sound if the control has changed position. Each control in each different train has to be looked at as a separate case though, as there isn’t a single way of doing something that is right for every control. I’ve found that on most controls they get it right with how they are implemented but there are some that are tricky to use, even with the confirmation in the HUD, and they maybe aren’t as well implemented. The ones with the animated rotation before the first notch are the worst but it is possible to get the timings right with practice. As a question to those who don’t like to confirm their control inputs with the HUD, I would ask how, with a continuous control like a standard throttle, would you know what percentage you have moved it to without a display showing the percentage or by looking at the physical lever position. Aren’t they impossible to operate anything other than full on or full off without correct timing and confirmation of the percentage value in the HUD? Can’t the animated notched controls be seen the same way as those? I don’t like the idea of having to press something eight times to go to notch eight, that would be worse than having to get the timing right for notch 1 or notch 4.
I think it's a bit of a charm in getting to know the train controls and knowing how long a button need to be pressed. I've never had too much problems with it. Always takes a bit of time to get to know a train and how to handle it. There's usually a distinct 'click' sound for lever switches, and often enough you can hear if it's actually moved a step, or fell back in the previous setting. I don't really need the percentage. There's usually incab gauges that show you how much power or brake force the train applies. Plus you can see the train actually speeding up or slowing down. And there's also sounds, you can either hear the engine throttling or electric power, and for brakes you often hear the sounds of airflow or the distinct sound of e-brakes. If my train isn't slowing down fast enough, I apply more brake force. I don't really need to know which percentage I'm currently in. As for applying power, the incab gauges are a good indication on how much power I need to prevent wheelslip or anything. For US and UK locomotives always be in the green zone, for German locomotives I try to stick around max 40kN on the gauge. I do use the HUD, but I mainly used it for the speed indicator. I find the in-cab gauges much more useful for throttle/brake force than any of the HUD gauges. Especially when it comes to the brake force on the Class 101, Class 66, and the Peninsula Corridor trains.
Oh, hadn't realised that's what was causing my issue, but it sounds possible. Driving the 1972 Stock, particularly where the line speed is low and there's a gradient, seems to require lots of applying the power briefly and then taking it off again. Sometimes it would miss my button press. So yes, agree, or at least think that the animation should be displayed but not used as a measuring device.
Yes, you can get it right, but that's because we as humans overcome obstacles. The current implementation of notched handles is an obstacle. Not a feature or anything like that, just an obstacle. A continuous control always will need some feedback. However, for German trains, this feedback is always given on the main train HUD, near the speedometer. For me, this would be enough. About the notched controls being seen in the same way: Partly. For a continuous control, if you tap it, it'll move a little bit. If you hold it, for 2 seconds, it'll move for 2 seconds. With notched controls, if you tap it, either nothing happens, or it moves one notch. If you hold it for 2 seconds, it may move 3 notches, but it also may move 4. Since there's usually a pretty big difference between notches, this is an issue. I agree that holding the button down to move between notches should remain possible. I don't agree about getting the timing right would be easier than hitting a button many times, but that's just personal preference. These options can live alongside each other though, even without a menu option to switch between the two. Getting to know the train should be about getting a feeling for how it accelerates, how it brakes, how it handles, not about getting to know the interface that allows you to control the train. I mean, if you want to move a handle three notches, what do you do? Push it over a bump 3 times, or push it for a certain amount of time? IRL, you get that feedback. You felt 3 bumps, so you know you moved 3 notches. In game, you get this feedback in a limited way through sound. However, for you to receive that feedback, you need to hold a button down. Even if you want to, you can't just push a button 3 times (which is very close to pushing a lever through 3 bumps if you ask me), because that doesn't do anything. I'm not saying: remove the possibility to hold down a button to move through notches. Maybe I need to be clearer, just to sum it up: What I would like to see: The option to tap a keyboard key 1 time to either: Tap a button in the cab, similar to how you tap Q to satisfy the safety systems. Any momentary button should act in this way. Toggle a switch, similar to how you toggle the cab lighting on and off in most trains. You tap the keyboard key once, the switch toggles between on and off immediately. Move a multi-stage switch to its next position. German trains sometimes have a 3 position switch for cab lighting, with the options "reading light", "off" and "cab light". In some trains you can tap the keyboard key once, and the switch moves to the next position. This is the desired behavior. In other trains, tapping it doesn't do anything. You need to hold the keyboard key down to start an animation, and release the key when the switch is in the right position. This to me is the extremely undesirable behavior, since it requires you to pay attention to it, instead of mindlessly tapping a button once to move to a known state. This also goes for notches traction handles, or notches in a continuous traction handle. A continuation of the option to hold a keyboard key to either: Move a continuous handle Move a notched handle between its positions Move a multi-stage switch between its positions I don't want to remove the functionality the hold a keyboard key down to do anything. I sometimes also like the ability to hold a keyboard key down to do something, but I'm sorely missing the option to quickly toggle things that are notched by just tapping a button, that's all. Hopefully this clarifies what I meant.
