Glasgow Cathcart Circle - First Impressions

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, May 28, 2021.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    First all of all, I'd just like to say what an amazing job DTG have done with modelling these ScotRail stations along the route. The stations look wonderfully detailed, with the lovely little steam train plant pot collectable, as well as smaller things like rubbish on the platforms and graffiti on walls. Glasgow Central looks nice and detailed, too.

    There are new assets for this route too - custom station assets such as new ticket vending machines, new station lights, brand new VMS lightweight LED signals, new and accurately designed overhead line equipment (OLE) and more.

    Wet surfaces on platforms is back and it looks amazing!

    upload_2021-5-28_21-52-37.png

    The 314 looks nice and detailed too, both the cab and interior. It's a bit too clean and bright looking in my opinion, however this should be relatively easy to fix via a mod.

    The sounds of the 314 are pretty quiet, however it was mentioned these would be looked at prior to release. I'm glad the sounds actually sound like a 314 - I believe these sounds are provided by Armstrong Powerhouse so we aren't getting recycled and old generic Kuju sounds.

    There seems to have been some nicely modelled walkways and entrances/exits with lights on, which I think is a nice touch. This should mean that the world at night is adequately lit.


    From what I've seen so far, I'm impressed and I think I shall be pre-ordering this route. For those that are on PC, I shall be making a mod enhancement pack for this route, so look out for that!
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
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  2. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    I’m very impressed.

    Audio a little quiet for me, and I think there should have been some more variety in service mode, missing out the Semi-Fast services to/from Neilston is a bit of an own goal for the sake of variety.

    Other than that, I can’t fault it!
     
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  3. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Matt's just confirmed they worked with both Waggonz and AP for research and sound, which is nice :)

    I think it's a really nice route and is certainly one for the watch list for me (I'm holding off to the second stream though)
     
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  4. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Cameral and lovely :)
    True.
     
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  5. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Ooh, and there's an early morning freight service - I think that'd be quite interesting to run.
     
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  6. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    looks very nice, especially realistic in the pouring rain lol. But yeah i think this is the sweet spot right now, a small self-contained route with one new loco.
     
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  7. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I wasn’t going to buy this, but after the preview, I’m already starting to cave in.

    It looks very nice and although the sounds are a bit quiet at the moment, they seem pretty good.

    The variation of different ways around the map is something I like as well.

    Certainly the most interesting preview to me for a while.
     
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  8. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I liked the stream, the route looks really good. But as usual, unfortunately, I have to complain about the sound.
    The track sounds, especially the one when passing over crossings is barely audible. Please increase the volume in the mix for these characteristic railway track sounds.
    For many of us there is nothing more immersion shattering than simulating driving a train and having the feeling of floating on Aladdin's magic carpet.
    You already have these sounds, you don't need to travel to record them. They just need to be implemented correctly. It can't be that the track sounds can't be heard and at the same time it feels like I have my ear glued to the wiper motor.
     
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  9. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    This route has definitely blown my expectations sky high, it's a fantastic looking route and looks miles better compared to the really half arsed SEHS route.

    A very ample amount of scenery/foliage on the route, nice looking platforms & buildings etc. PEP also looks great and the sounds are somewhat decent but seem far too quiet for me (although you can probably blame the background noise in the stream for that)

    My favourite detail has to be those little Choo Choo's on the platforms, totally adorable things and I'm glad the dev team picked up on these.

    [​IMG]

    Very much looking forward to playing this on June 10th!
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
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  10. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, the route looks amazing, and although I'm no expert when it comes to the sounds of British (I meant Scottish!) trains, I do like the motor sounds. They just need to be tuned up a little bit, and the volume needs to be a little higher since they are too quiet ATM.
     
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  11. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully Matt is not lying this time when he says that the audio team is working on the sounds of the 314 (where is the Clinchfield SD40 horn?)
     
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  12. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’m impressed by the route too but alas I’ve overspent and will have to wait for a sale, otherwise it would be an instant buy based on what I’ve seen. A nice little network route that looks lovely in the rain, and I do like the PEPs and the 314 looks well made. I would never buy a route just for the collectibles but they have outdone themselves and Rivet with the planters. Glasgow station is amazing.
     
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  13. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - I think it looks fabulous. I absolutely love the route and route concept - it is just like South London Network in TS2012. Love it....! ;-)

    FOUR route combinations for the passenger stuff, plus the nod to NTP/TVL rolling stock and ECW with tours and an engineering train. Fab...!

    A key take-away for me, from the preview stream, is that Matt was quite straight about the sound not being right, with low audio, and problems with the mix, etc. And both Matt and JD were quite clear that they couldn't promise to fix anything or make any changes, so what we saw/heard is possibly what we will get in the released version. Which is fair enough. They are not promising anything beyond what they have shown, and if you don't like it, then you can follow Sam's standard advice, and not buy it.

    It's a shame, because I would have liked to have seen a working version with reasonably optimised audio - but maybe, with time being so short, and so many releases planned over the next two years, that we will have to wait for Adam's team to fix the audio as part of the "Preservation" work, in, say - a couple of years from now.

    Which is fair enough, I guess. I can wait for the DLC to be corrected, as and when they choose to fix it. And then it will be an instant buy for me - maybe in 2023.

    Or...... or ..... they could postpone the release and fix it now. Just an opinion.
     
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  14. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    The route looks really good and will probably be a great source of 30-minute drives. Shame there are no 6-car runs in the timetable that could use some splitting and coupling around rush hours.

    Also, londonmidland what are you planning to put into the enhancement mod apart from dirty looking 314? :D After such scenery praise there's not much work left for you, is it? :D
     
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  15. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Hi, it'll most likely be a bunch of small things bundled together to make one big pack.

    Such as updated posters, ScotRail poster map, ballast colour corrections, overhead line equipment weathering, possibly new announcements etc.
     
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  16. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Yeah this :D When I collected the first map on SEHS yesterday and the proper one appeared, I was surprised how much better that was compared to the basic ones. Probably the biggest immediate impact of that mod. :D
     
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  17. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    I think this is going to be one of those really rare Pre-order/Day One purchases for TSW for me. It really looks outstanding.
     
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  18. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This has to be the first live stream where I was genuinely blown away by the amount of detail the route offers. It'll be a pre-order for me too.
     
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  19. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely can't wait to see how you'll tweak and improve the texturing, too!
     
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  20. aglomarsale

    aglomarsale Well-Known Member

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    This is the DTG I wanted to see! Great job :love:
     
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  21. Ben_Broomfield

    Ben_Broomfield Well-Known Member

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    First impression wise, I’m really happy with the route.

    Love the custom VMS signals, great job with them. Although the signal flares seem to be a bit overdone. Also, hopefully some signals get fixed to prevent you closing on a red (was mentioned that a fix was being done). Also going through a waypoint which changes the signal aspect is a immersion breaker personally.

    Sounds are actually alright, although quite quiet. Which does ruin a little bit of the immersion, especially when going over joints or points!

    I personally have no real experience with Scotland’s rail system but the route did feel a little quiet here and there. (Mite just be me though).

    Station models are brilliant and for once I really appreciate the collectibles on a route. Tiny things make all the difference; just like some of the platform textures. Looks brilliant against the light!


    Overall, it’s gotta be the first route I’ve gone and seen and really enjoyed it with far far less niggles than what’s been brought out before. Hopefully DTG can set the standard there and keep at it, at a minimum! Great work DTG!
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
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  22. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t watched the stream but my interest is piqued by what I’m reading. Not sure if it will be a Day 1 purchase for me, but the one question I would ask having just refunded ECW because I found the route and traction chronically boring, from the evidence on the streams do we consider Cathcart better or worse than ECW?
     
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  23. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Having watched the stream, Cathcart Circle is shaping up to be a must have route and could be as good as East Coastway. There were a few niggles like low exterior sound on the 314, but we were told this is being worked on, so I’ll withhold full judgement until the shipping build is previewed. I’m certainly looking forward to playing it.
     
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  24. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    So happy I refunded HHL, can't wait for this route to release :D

    The only possible (major) problem are the signals that stay red until you are past a waypoint, the sounds and the train physics, but (unlike for HHL) there seems to be the will to investigate and fix those issues (fingers crossed before release), the route itself seems great, it's not my personal favourite, I like faster suburban routes more (RE style), but the branches seem just different enough to make me happy, there I can go past 30 mph at least :), but surely I will enjoy going round the circle from time to time.

    Also this route looks great in the rain, and everything seems done to a very high standard, looks like a 1 day purchase.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    One of the first things Matt said when setting off from Glasgow first time round was "That was a lot louder in the build I had earlier today", so it sounds like their dev team changed something yesterday that made the sounds quiet, hopefully it's just as quick to make them louder again
     
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  26. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    And they also did something to completely break the timetable too. That's why I'm holding off until the 2nd stream to see if these things actually have been fixed.

    This is the advantage of doing smaller routes - they can spend more time putting small details in that simply couldn't be in a long route due to having to spend that time doing the more broader scenery.
     
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  27. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Pre-ordered, I think more of the network would be fantastic including Motherwell, etc. Can't wait to see some scuds and 156's appear in the future, surprised the 101 didn't reappear in its SPT livery (be nice to have some extra traffic at GC? Although I am not up on Scottish rail so not sure that would apply to this version of the route? Agree about the sounds, too quiet. LM, your cloud mod affect this route if re-installed?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
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  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Didn't see the broken timetable part, I saw the issue with the little diagram you get but that was it
     
  29. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    No. This route is set now, the 101s haven't ran around there for at least 20 years (the last ones in the UK, at Manchester, were retired in 2003).
     
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  30. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    by 'broken timetable' I meant the due times had gone (breaking the PIS) and Matt had a few reds coming out of Central he said shouldn't have been happening.
     
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  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I saw the reds on the first run, but also saw that each one was preceded by a via instruction so that seemed more "changed" than "broken". I wonder if he was actually playing an earlier dev version rather than later...

    I also saw that on the circle runs the little map on the selection screen didn't show any run at all because the start and end are the same point... maybe something needs to be changed there too
     
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  32. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    upload_2021-5-29_10-6-9.png
    12:50 on last night's stream
     
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  33. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like the save game bug. I wonder if now it's popped up on a stream some serious developer time will be allocated to fixing it. Not much point having a route with an intensive service, if you can't keep going.
     
  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't a saved game because we watched him start the scenario from scratch
     
  35. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Great to get a breeze of fresh air after the HHL debacle. Me and some others here were expecting even more disappointment with Cathcart (is the abbreviation CCC?).
    Fortunately this appears to be a product well worth the money, seeing the details and effort put in. While not in dire need for a new route, I might buy it with the 10% discount just to send a sign of a "virtual upvote" with my money. Like I sent a virtual down vote by not spending on bug ridden routes like HHL (though they have addressed a good amount of them already to be fair).
    But I will wait for the second stream, I want to know the stage the sound and timetable times are in then.
     
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  36. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I think it's GCC - that seems to be the most popular one anyway.
     
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  37. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Ok so I suppose that means Glasgow Cathcart Circle? Funnily enough, on Steam it is listed as Cathcart Circle Line, which then would abbreviate to CCL :D
     
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  38. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, same here, I only played the ECW a handful of times as I found it boring with just the one train. I won't be buying this yet because of lack of traction, I've not seen the stream yet but Glasgow Central must be completely dead with just 314's to run on it. Deffo one for the future though if we ever get more relevant stock.
     
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  39. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    IT's actually closer to Bakerloo, just all above ground. I would say it's on par with ECW though (although I think ECW is one of the nicest UK routes in the game).
     
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  40. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and I doubt it will feel dead. From the stream you could already see that there is a lot of traffic. I purposedly used the word sterile last time, though monotonous might be more fitting. But yes, it was no issue for me on ECW, in hindsight, why would it be with this route?
     
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  41. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I actually found the route more boring than the train in ECW as there is almost nothing to see and I regretted buying it at full price. I’m finding driving the same cab to be better in SEHS though, because I prefer the route. This looks much better than both for gameplay and scenery and the train is older, so I’m expecting it to be a much better driving experience than ECW.
     
  42. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    I too will be buying it as an upvote.
    That said I find my routes that get less gameplay are those which have only the one loco, like the Tgv and Arosa.
    I like the illusion of being part of a wider network.
     
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  43. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Are you guys sure the sounds are just quiet? I've skimmed through the streaming and it sure sounds like there aren't any sounds at all! The departure from the first station, with the outside comera and all... Don't know whether to laugh or cry...
     
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  44. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Same here. The route is well done and the train is very detailed. I found it really nice that you can go next to the driver door, check that no one is going in or out of the train and press the close button there. Awesome.

    Unfortunately the route felt a bit empty for my taste. Unless the next stream changes my opinion I think I will wait until there is more rolling stock for the route before I buy.
     
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  45. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    It is a known issue and the devs are looking into it. You might want to watch the next stream. I'm hoping they will have it sorted out by then.
     
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  46. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    They didn't run Reading to Paddington services in blue and grey livery in the 1970's either but that didn't seem to stop DTG!
     
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  47. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Well-Known Member

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    No matter how laudatory the comments here about the preview of this route, I will no longer pre-order routes (no matter how much the PR department of DTG praises them) - I'm stupidly tired of feeding developers who create routes according to the same scheme + only 1 new train for each DLC// (i'm ready to wait six months, but get a long, interesting and 2-3 trains in a set right away ... but these pieces ...phah)
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
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  48. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Whenever I watch a preview stream recently, I'm always drawn to the same thoughts. Wherever you are in the world, whether it's steam, diesel or electric, urban, suburban or rural, the railway is noisy. There's noise from the track, the traction (engine or motors), noise from the environment (cars, trucks, people, animals, factories, construction etc.) and just general sounds from a noisy world. Yet many routes in the game, including this one, are preternaturally quiet. To me it's just not real life. What is the problem? Just turn up the volume, for goodness sake, bring in more sounds from the real world. And I don't mean fake sound like the 3 million people who are invisibly populating the platforms on stations in SEHS. I mean let's have the real railway, the actual world in TSW2. I usually end up forgetting the stock emus and just drive Class 20 or 101, or retreat to SPG just to feed my ears, and to escape the silences of modern trains and routes. And, one more thing. You cannot realistically populate a suburban route with just one train, almost no traffic and empty main line stations. It just doesn't look like the real world. I'm starting to get nervous about "Rush Hour". Will it really reflect the noisy, bustling world we all live in every day?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
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  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The Scots are British. Just not English.
     
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  50. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Don't want to start a war, but haven't the Scottish people made a point of "unBritish ing" themselves over the past 30-40years? My impression is that they have redeveloped an "independence" for Scotland, culturally, if not politically.
     
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