Glasgow Cathcart Circle - First Impressions

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, May 28, 2021.

  1. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Well thanks for the advice. I base most of what I say on my personal experience. Living around and working with railways has been part of my family's life for about 75 years, as a profession. The first time I was in a cab of a real working loco, working in a real yard, was when I was about five years old. So where's your expertise....?

    Well thanks again for you advice, although there is no need for you start making personal comments and become extremely offensive. As it happens, I have taken literally thousands of photos of trains, including at night. Um , for about forty years.....

    The whole issue for me about lights, and the discussion around them, particularly with respect to Cathcart, is the trend to hyper-generalise. I fully well know that British locos had filament bulbs in the 1970s (and some still have them today). I might have changed a few myself.... ;-)

    And yes, these lights can be seen by other people. And no, they don't light up 1000 yards of track ahead for the driver in all conditions. I don't expect them to, in TSW. But yes - they do light up signs in the cess and various bits of lineside furniture over a short radius, which the driver can see. And that is all that I want to see in TSW - which is what you get in TS2012.

    For clarity: I don't want British locos from the 1970s to be modelled with 1000 yards of track lit up ahead. I am not asking for high intensity lights, even though this is apparently modelled on the Class 314 (but without the light source). Just a gentle light - like with the DB BR 155, which enables you to see signs and get a feeling of movement at night.

    It's not complicated. It really isn't complicated. It's one of those things that really lacks any real level of complexity, because it isn't complicated. It doesn't need to be made complicated. It's an issue that is quite happy being left in the "easy to understand" category.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  2. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    Playing on Xbox one x and It feels empty. Glasgow central is not busy. Barely no passengers on the trains. Also there are minor freezes lasting a few seconds. Barely no AI services within scenarios. 314 is okay I suppose.

    What experience do you get with the pc version ?.
     
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  3. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I'm having the same experience on Series X with performance, which is unusual. Usually i get smooth frame rates and no stutters/hitches (tbf they're quite infrequent, here, but still).

    Only drove 2 services after doing the tutorial. The first was bringing a train into service (06:23 IIRC), which was a nice run (although the train is already energized despite the tutorial showing you how to do the startup- this is hardly unique to GCC tbf)- you have to change ends after pulling out of the depot before heading to Glasgow Central. Upon arrival, i changed ends again to make a run to Newton via the western part of the circle. Again it was a nice run, but pretty much greens all the way despite it being the morning
    rush hour. I think i only saw 1 or 2 AI trains the whole time, which doesn't seem very realistic.

    The track layout is very nicely done with several complex junctions, and the signalling all seems in order as well. Immediate trackside scenery is good, and the stations all seem very nicely done.

    Medium distance scenery is not great- similar to issues in LIRR, it fails to convince me i'm in a dense urban/suburban area- I realize Glasgow isn't NYC, but the generic urban buildings and poor representation of road traffic is disappointing and there's clearly places visible where the scenery quickly drops off into nothing but plain green landscape. Again, this isn't unique to GCC, but with such a compact and interconnected layout, I was hoping for better.

    The 314 seems fine to me- textures are nice and crisp, and the cab and traction sounds seem appropriate (caveat: i have no personal experience with this train), and all the controls seem to work. Occlusion of outside track and environment sounds, even with the window open seems way too aggressive as usual- using the exterior camera provides a better mix IMO, but i like to drive from the cab as much as possible.

    Overall it's above average, but not great so far. My biggest overall concern is how empty it feels. I'm getting 208 services available to drive (including 1 freight and 2 railtours). Is it the same on PC? If so, i'm getting major LIRR vibes where maybe the dispatcher can't handle more traffic or the complex layout.

    If it's another HMA situation where consoles are getting fewer services, they REALLY should have said so ahead of time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
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  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I assume (I haven't got it yet) they have only modelled the services going over the actual route so 208 sounds about right from looking at the timetable, I think it would feel a bit empty as many services you would see around Glasgow are not going to be represented.
     
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  5. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    The Micro Shutter since a while even on Xbox Series X that the game is Stopping few seconds
     
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  6. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha, and that's really the issue i guess. Hopefully the Rush Hour update will bring improvements in this area, assuming they're able to go back and implement it in already released routes.
     
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  7. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Maybe if/when there is some DLC, a class 380 for example then they might add some extra AI services in and out of Glasgow.

    It looks like a nice route, I think another unit would add a lot more interest. That is the problem with ECW, something which the class 313 will hopefully address.
     
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  8. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    We need the 380 really important DTG, better today as Tomorrow :)
     
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  9. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    I can confirm the number of services on PC is also 208. There is no difference in the amount of services at all.

    I think the issue is that the 314 was the only train included combined with the fact that only the Cathcart Circle lines were included. Like you mention, this does feel like an LIRR 2.0 except in the UK. However, so far it seems much better than LIRR despite the similarities. Just like Jamaica and Penn in LIRR, Glasgow Central in real life has many services constantly departing and arriving. You have the WCML and several suburban lines other than Cathcart running out of Glasgow central. The emptiness of Glasgow isn’t necessarily because only the 314 was included, but rather more the nature of having a route in TSW that starts in a busy central station. DTG could add a 380, 385, and 318 and yet Glasgow would still feel empty with only Cathcart services present.
     
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  10. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    From what I have seen of this route is the stations are really dark at night, being hardly lit up. There is a pic somewhere posted on these forums forums comparing a CC station to its real life counter part. The real one was lit up like a xmas tree and totally stood out from the surrounding area then you had the in game station where it was hardly lit up at all, it was the same station btw, one of the rural ones.

    Surely someone at DTG would have seen this but I'd like to know why he/she thought it OK to not do anything about it.
     
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  11. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Watching the stream, I really like the look of the unit, it looks very well modelled.

    It was suggested by someone that some of the services on one of the branches is modelled as an hourly rather than a half hourly service which is what it is in reality, which is disappointing if so. So maybe some services are missing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
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  12. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    Same pausing for a second on PC
     
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  13. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    They save some layers for the Loco DLC probably.
    Hope Matt proof his word and bring Loco add ons to this Route
     
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  14. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Glad I decided with a closed wallet. Watched three streams and it’s too quiet
     
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  15. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

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    OK this may be me being a bit too picky.... I just did a short walk - summer clear 01:15. there is a lovely starry night sky. However, during June and July you shouldn't get anything other than perpetual twilight at that latitude. see https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/uk/glasgow?month=12
    I've not checked winter as yet.
     
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  16. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Please fixed the sounds DTG to make it loud.
     
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  17. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Someone else wrote a bit later that there is in fact a service every 30 mins. Can't tell who is right as I do not have the route yet.
     
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  18. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    My first impression from playing it is, wow, props to the route building and train modeling and route art/train art teams. The sounds are indeed a little quiet with the window up (you can’t hear the compressor running at all from the cab during the start-up procedure unless you open the window… somehow I can’t imagine British-built EMUs in the ‘70s were that well sound-insulated), but when you can hear them, the sounds are up there with the revamped Class 166 and HST sounds as some of the best audio work in the game.

    I’ve only played a little bit, but first impressions have been really good, and I’m looking forward to getting properly stuck in to this route over the weekend.
     
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  19. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Opposite on PC. Nice and busy and while Glasgow is frame rate hell especially when facing the big banks of signals there are no major stutters or pauses anywhere for me.
     
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  20. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    My first impression is that I like it. This is my kind of route. Lots of yellow and red signals. An elderly train which means you need to actually get used to it because it doesn't accelerate quickly and doesn't brake quickly and the force applied from the brakes especially when it transitions from rheostatic to air is variable and interesting making for a fun and challenging drive.

    Things I really like
    • The buffers at Glasgow are fantastic - wonderful level of detail, and better yet each one has individual stains and marks - I wish they'd compress when you bump them with a train...
    • The Glasgow station itself is great. I think modelling with this level of detail on this line is warranted because most services start and finish here.
    • There is a nice variety of services and runs with different ending points and differing timings making the route interesting and fun - its a bit like LIRR in that respect
    • The flange squeals, frog, crossing and track joint noises are awesome - might wish them to be a tiny bit louder in the cab but I can live with it as is
    • The wet textures on the platforms are really good all through the line
    • The scenery is nicely modelled lineside and there is enough distant to get you to glance at it - you're restricted from flying high enough to get a good look though
    • The tutorial is the first one I've seen with changing ends - this I like - great for new players
    • The train sounds nice
    • You can nearly do a guard's mode with an AI driver (prompted by David one of my stream viewers this morning) - you can kind of make it work or at least pretend its working.
    Things I don't like
    • Nothing really - there are a few spots here and there where the underlying default texture shows through but its only noticeable because I went looking for it - had I not looked deliberately I never would have seen it

    Is it worth the money? Yes the game play fun is great and I can see this being one of the routes I come back to repeatedly for the gameplay.

    Paul
     
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  21. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    I suspect the limited passengers displayed is due to memory constraints.
    It was very noticeable on Matt’s console video that the catenary supports were constantly popping into to view quite close to the cab.
     
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  22. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I did buy it in the end after planning not to. Haven’t had a chance to really play yet, but looking forward to the weekend.

    I watched paul.pavlinovich stream last night (Sorry, couldn’t say Hi as I didn’t have a keyboard nearby) and was very happy with the way it looks and plays on PC and it looks like the Raildriver support works pretty well.

    I can see myself playing this a lot.
     
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  23. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    No worries on not saying Hi - having even silent viewers is cool :)

    It is fun. I'm about to get back into it having been dragged away to do house things lol.

    Paul
     
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  24. Heerenrailfan92

    Heerenrailfan92 Member

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    I really like the Route but they could at least add a class 385 since the 314 doesn't even drive this route anymore, one train for 30€ is a little spare in my opinion
     
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  25. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the class 385's did when the 314's did. A class 380 would be a better choice.

    I would be surprised if one doesn't come as DLC at some point in the future.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
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  26. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean the poles holding up the wires or on the br314 because i have seen no pop up issues on the br314.
     
  27. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    The 314's were retired in 2019.
     
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  28. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure there isn't any headlight visible on the track or anything else?
     
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  29. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    So i've played a bit more, and it's growing on me. Ran a clockwise circle service in the rain and it was much busier and atmospheric!
     
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  30. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing this video - this illustrates my point perfectly.

    Two seconds in to the video you will see the front of the oncoming train on the right brightly lighting up the track and lineside structures. A second later, the red marker lights on the train you are overtaking on your left shine a very powerful red glow on the track and lineside infratructure behind it.

    So - to sum up - we also need light sources on the back of trains - thank you ever so much for posting this video - it illustrates my point absolutely perfectly.

    Thanks again.
     
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  31. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    But the point is - you can't see the headlights of the train you're in from your own cab. I agree you should see it on other trains (even then it's only lighting up the rails), but I thought this whole argument was about seeing your own headlights...
     
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  32. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    +++Breaking: Granny wins World Wrestling Championship; And why is China exporting Moose?+++

    Who is the one writing the articles for the collectable Newspapers, and how can i get his job?
    Can we have more News from Bob o´Bobston and Roy McRoyston?

    Cathcart has the nicest collectables for sure!

    20210611194522_1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  33. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that :D
    Is that common to the other routes or is CCL the first?
     
  34. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Facetiousness aside, the point is UK train headlights were not for seeing but to be seen, lighting up speed signs wasn't a priority as much as knowing the route a driver was assigned to which precluded the necessity for headlights to show up speed boards.
     
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  35. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Of course you can't see your own headlights from inside the cab - you never can, and you wouldn't want to because it would blind you and prevent you from seeing the things you need to see in front of you, that are usually lit up with your headlights.

    In a Class 314, looking through a vertical glass window pane, sitting right up front, with catenary around you, close up and personal, on a curvy route situated almost completely in a deep cutting, with continuous trackside signage in the cess a few feet away, and travelling at 30mph to 40mph.... in that situation you can see the effects of your headlights from the cab, with light reflecting off all that stuff.

    It is a bit different with a HST, barrelling along at 125mph in the middle high speed road (far from the cess), going in a straight line, in open country with little infrastructure near you to light up, with a cab that has a nose in front of it, where you are sitting quite far back, where the lights are mounted on the upper part of the nose shining through angled glass pointing upwards, with you looking through an angled window (from the vertical), and looking through that window from not the driver's position, again at another angle to the vertical plane, using a video camera with a CCD that is white-balanced to allow you to see the dashboard.

    The two examples are extreme opposites when it comes to driver vision.

    Is it possible to find circumstances where you get poor visibility from a driving position in a British loco? Yes it is possible. Anecdotal evidence of it sometimes being difficult to see out of the front of a train doesn't mean that it is always the case with every single train. And it doesn't apply to the Class 314.

    I thought this thread was about the Class 314 on Cathcart Circle....? But anyway - the multiple units shown in the video (at 2-3 seconds), of similar construction to the Class 314, can clearly be seen to emit light - not just so that you see the lighting device itself.... you can see the light reflecting off the infrastructure - and this would be clearly visible to the drivers of those units in the video - you can even see these super bright reflections from the cab of the HST, barrelling along at 125 mph, despite its generally poor vision.

    That's why the video makes my point so perfectly. Even with really poor vision, if it's in your Field of View, and light is shining on it, then you can see it.

    And anyway - what exactly is it that you want? Do you actually want Cathcart Circle to be an utterly dismal and completely unrealistic experience when driving at night? Is that actually what you want? Do you want the game to be the worst that it can be? Because I want the game to be the best that it can be - I want TSW to show that it has depth in gameplay and simulation, and to be a pleasure to use.

    And I am after realism. I want to be able to navigate a route like Cathcart without the HUD. And if it was genuinely impossible to see outside with your lights, then I would want that in the game - and I can get that in the game (on the German routes where the train lights work)..... by switching on adverse weather. There's nothing I like more than the challenge of Facebooking Up your headlights in Dirt Rally 2.0 and having to complete the stage in the dark, fumbling your way through the trees, when that's appropriate. But it's not appropriate in the Class 314 on Cathcart Circle, on a dark clear night in the cutting.

    Don't worry - in a few years you will be looking back at this debacle and wondering why so many people had the deluded belief that light doesn't reflect off things - I am confident that one day you will be able to.......... see the light.
     
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  36. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    GB headlights were introduced in the 1960s/70s for the purpose of being seen/marked - I completely agree.

    However, "not for seeing" does not mean that things won't be seen with your lights. The light is still allowed to reflect off things. And speed signs are made out of highly reflective materials to facilitate that - or have physical numerals painted white or yellow to facilitate that.

    The GB rules did not change the laws of physics or materials science.

    "Not for seeing" means that those lights are/were not intended to light up the Line of Sight..... for a Service Braking Distance, because you can rely on signals to ensure that the way is clear of obstruction. It does not mean that the lights only emit "unreflectable light".

    But anyway - is it your belief that if you stand in the four foot, or alternatively in the cess, about 10 yards away from the front of a Class 314, with the three lights switched on (as depicted in TSW), on a dark Glasgow night..... that the driver would not be able to see you, say, if you were wearing a hi-vi suit and holding a super-reflective sign in front of your chest (facing the driver).........? Would the driver merely see a dark void of blackness ahead, urging you to hand over your soul.....? And is that entirely unrealistic vista what you want to see in TSW, on Cathcart Circle? Is that the effect that you would like? Would that make TSW more enjoyable for you? If so - let's go with what you want. Because I don't want to get on the wrong side of the dark side, if you know what I mean.... ;-O
     
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  37. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Take a look this. ;)

    Oh, and if you think it is unrealistic watch this:



    Mae Young, oldest person to wrestle ever at 87 years old. Wrestled for WWF from 1999 to 2000, 2004 and 2010.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  38. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I decided to do a depot move at night. I can't remember if I set it to autumn cloudy or autumn clear however. The headlight, strangely, seems to be more effective the further away you are (also look how that SR 314 lights up my C&C 314) - I assume the headlight only gets dimmer when shadows start being drawn (need to test this though). 20210611213222_1.jpg

    Also wile parked in GLC, the headlight is clearly having an effect on the buffers. 20210611214026_1.jpg 20210611214029_1.jpg
    I also noticed the headlight on my train vaguely lighting up some catenary.
    For clarity: This is on PC with FXAA antialiasing and the service was 5N01 Depot Move.
    EDIT: I just remembered I made an engine.ini tweak to turn bloom off - not sure how much of a difference it makes though.

    It would be nice to have it brighter, but it does act as a light source.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  39. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I saw that HST video above and thought Wow, is it really that dark inside the cab? Do they do everything by memory? I would of thought the speed signs reflect but what do I know, lol.

    However a better comparison would be seeing a real train driving the same GCC route at night. But what disappoints me the most is seeing those stations at night. If you look at the real stations they are light up like xmas trees albeit with an orange tinted glow but in the game it is like they are using candles. We know DTG have had light issues before now so I wonder if they have issues still? Cause surely DTG have seen the pics we have and yet they approved it?
     
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  40. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I understand real train drivers know just about every inch of track they're driving on, which is why you spend a whole lot of time training on simulators before you go anywhere near an actual train.
     
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  41. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Couple more shots from my early morning journey down to Neilston
    20210611215040_1.jpg 20210611220458_1.jpg 20210611221954_1.jpg
    [​IMG]

    Not sure what this outline effect on all the scenery by the water is all about (motion blur? It was more exaggerated when moving the camera).
    20210611222601_1.jpg
     
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  42. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for saying this. It is exactly what I think.
    Besides, this is still a video game, and it's to be enjoyed, not suffered. We don't know how realistic it is to go in the dark with this train, but is it enjoyable to drive it like this? I'm sure for the vast majority of players it's not.
    I mean, we're not in a simulator for future engineers here, nor do I think DTG intends that either. In fact, we have multiple examples of unrealistic things on many TSW routes and nothing happens. So why not remove some of the realism to make it more enjoyable for the players? The lighting in Clinchfield is not realistic, those floodlights should be much brighter! This detracts from the playability of that route, why not do the same in Cathcart but on the contrary, giving more light, so that we can add playability to this one? Or do we only apply realism to the bad things?
     
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  43. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Okay - this looks better than everything we've seen online. Thanks for this. This is sincerely appreciated.

    I have decided to put my money where my mouth is, and buy the route*** and test it for myself (downloading right now). I only want a very subtle effect for my needs, but it does need to be a light source, operating within the shadow draw distance. It sounds like (from what you are saying) you've got it on the buffers at Glasgow Central, so that is very promising (although it's not clear to me in the picture).

    Also - I have seen a few screenshots with reflections off platforms and such, but that might just be an environmental effect in UE (like getting the ghostly lights that reflect in the mirrors on the Bakerloo Line). Nothing much from the driver's view for the Class 314 - so great for external screenshots and marketing, but maybe not so great for simulation or immersive gameplay from the driving position.

    Anyway - Matt has accepted that the Class 314 lights are no way near strong enough (so hopefully he will get something done about it). So if there is a light source there, but it is just weak, then there'll be no performance hit if it is tweaked upwards, and it would then be a simple fix, without having to re-optimise for a new light source.
    -------------------

    ***NB: If my purchase of Cathcart turns out to be a disappointment, or if Matt doesn't get the wick turned up a tad on the Class 314, then I can console myself with the Ghostbusters (Remastered) game.... which I have just bought on sale for £6, and which should have decent lighting effects, even for a 20 year old game..... ;-)
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  44. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    You don't see too much from the cab, you only see it most from the other trains, and your own light does reflect off some signals (the southbound Cathcart starter being the best example). It would be nice to see it bounce off the walls north of Mount Florida.

    Did he? I watched the launch stream earlier and I thought he said it's a bit dimmer than reality.
     
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  45. dark-rabbit

    dark-rabbit New Member

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    It would be nice to be able to choose in the weather settings with or without moonlight !
     
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  46. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes that what he said, the train light was a bit dimmer than reality, but not by much. It was the lights on the station he thought were too dim.
     
  47. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    You are wasting your virtual breath.
     
  48. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    There's really no need to be personal or offensive to people. If you have something to contribute regarding Cathcart Circle, or train lights or station lights on Cathcart Cirlce, then let's hear that, rather than you taking side swipes at people. There's no need for such aggression from you - people here are just trying to enjoy trains.

    Have you bought the route yet? What was your experience? Did you enjoy it? What were your first impressions.? Do you actually have anything to say about railways..... or have you just come here to try to upset people?
     
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  49. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I have bought the Cathcart route and done a few runs. I can confirm that the "headlight" is indeed a light source - but it is incredibly weak (but it can be easily improved in a fix). The only time I could detect it was at the buffers at Glasgow Central, and only if you pull right up to them, well past the stop marker (!). The effect is a tiny fraction of the effect you get from shining your torch at the buffers - I have pictures for comparison, if need be. The white marker lights are dead to the world.

    There are lots of other reflections that you get which are pure UE environmentals. Some of them are actually quite nice at night - as the cab interior reflects them (like the platforms), including light from the saloons from passing trains (these are not light sources - it's all post-processed stuff - but it is nice though, on the rare occasion that a train passes).

    And yes, Matt did say that the lighting on the Class 314 was wrong, and needed to be much stronger. Night runs are generally a dismal affair, and anything in a snowy setting (or late night autumn setting) looks really weird, like a game from the early 1990s. That said, I really do like the iced-up Class 314's front..... ;-)

    I picked up a few other things with lighting on Cathcart, that I need to confirm, regarding station lighting. I have a feeling that the station lights might turn on until 6.30pm, which would be useless in winter settings. I have not confirmed this though - it might just happen in the diaroma preview.

    As an aside, I also bought the Class 52 timetable for GWE and did a run at night in the Class 52 (3.00am one). The tiny "headlight" and traincode panel have no light source effect on GWE - it's completely dark with no reflections - and I had absolutely no problem with that at all (the Class 52 is a creature of the night.....), so it seemed perfectly fine to me (although reviewing the pack myself, it is clear that it is a waste of money). I similarly don't have a problem with the lighting of the HST on GWE, but I am still very thankful for the HST video posted earlier that shows multiple units casting a lot of light about.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
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  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    What's your basis for saying it's easy...
     

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