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PC Hamburg - Lübeck Testing Report

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by cwf.green, May 24, 2021.

  1. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    Over the last few days I have done (relatively) extensive testing of the rolling stock that comes with HBL.
    I will list each point I have tested and give a verdict whether it is accurate or inaccurate. I have tried to order the list in terms of importance to player experience.

    Note: this thread will be quite long since I want to be thorough.

    1. BR112 stopping distance (airbrake + E-brake performance).
    The locomotive has a brake weight of 155t in the R + E 160 setting. This will give a stopping distance (full brake) of 780m and mean deceleration of 1.42 m/s^2.

    The test results were 810m and 1.37 m/s^2 which means the test result is 0.96 of the real world result. Verdict: Accurate within margin of error.
    Improvement required: None.

    2. Freight train brake G/P/R-brake configuration.

    Previously the German freight trains in TSW2 were in the setting P (or R) for locomotives and G for the wagons. In reality Locomotives will be in G-brake above 800t and wagons will usually always be in P-brake (only exception is first 5 wagons in G for trains above 1200t). A good approximation is to leave all wagons in P-brake for all trains.

    Test results: All wagons are now in P-brake. Verdict: Accurate.
    Improvement required: None*. (*) see point 19.


    3. BR182 stopping distance (airbrake only).
    The locomotive should be in P-brake which gives a brake weight of 67t. For 120 km/h this gives a stopping distance of 860m and mean deceleration of 0.70 m/s^2.

    Test results: Stopping distance was 430m and mean deceleration was 1.53 m/s^2. This means that the brakes are too strong by a factor of ~ 2.1. Verdict: Inaccurate.
    Improvement required: Divide airbrake force by factor of 2.1 so that max brake force is ~ 60 kN.

    4. Dosto wagons in HBL (BR112 trainsets but loco contribution "subtracted").

    The Dosto wagons featured in HBL and other routes weight approximately 53t and have brake weights of 87t which gives stopping distances (from 160 km/h) of 880m and mean deceleration rates of 1.25 m/s^2.

    Test results: Stopping distance of approximately 1250m which gives a mean deceleration rate of 0.85 m/s^2.

    Verdict: Inaccurate.
    Improvement required: Increase HBL Dosto wagon max brake force by a factor of 1.5 or so that max brake force is 66 kN.

    5. BR112 Application rate with Dosto wagons coupled.

    I noticed that when making a full service application with the Dosto wagons coupled the application time is increased from 4s to 10s. This does not seem prototypical but I'm slightly hesitant with advising a fix since the BR112 brakes nearly perfectly at the moment. If the application time is corrected the locomotive needs to be tested with *corrected* Dosto wagons (7-wagon train) such that the stopping distance is 860m.
    At least the application timing seems to be prototypical (I have been told by a driver).

    6. HBL Sggmrss (Loaded) brake force.

    Each two-unit wagon in HBL weighs 67t and has a brake weight of 67t (matches weight up to 108t) which gives a stopping distance of 700m and a mean deceleration of 0.87 m/s^2.

    Test results: Stopping distance of 545m and mean deceleration of 1.16m/s^2.
    Verdict: Inaccurate.
    Improvement required: Multiply current brake force by a factor of 0.75 and adjust so that the stopping distance from 120 km/h with a *corrected* BR182 is 720m.

    7. HBL Sggmrss (Empty) brake force.

    The listed weight per two-wagon unit is 27t which is about 2t below the real empty weight but this is a minor detail. The Stopping distance in reality is the same because the brake weight is matched to the wagon weight.

    Test results: Stopping distance of 525m and mean deceleration of 1.18m/s^2. These values are so close to the loaded wagon results that it is safe to assume that they have the same deceleration due to braking.
    Verdict: Inaccurate.
    Improvement required: Multiply current brake force by a factor of 0.75 and adjust so that the stopping distance from
    ins120 km/h with a *corrected* BR182 is 720m.

    8. HBL Habbiins wagon weights.

    The wagon weight in loaded and empty configuration is the same (27.4t) which is only correct for empty trains. The loaded weights could be increased up to 58t gross if the same deceleration is to be used (brake weight is matched to wagon weight up to 58t) or up to 90t if a lower deceleration is of interest.

    9. HBL Habbiins wagon brake force (loaded and empty).
    The real empty wagon will have a stopping distance from 120 km/h of 700m and a mean deceleration rate of 0.87 m/s^2. The real loaded wagon (below 58t gross weight) will have a stopping distance from 100 km/h of 480m and a mean deceleration rate of 0.91 m/s^2.

    Test results: Stopping distance from 120 km/h of 780m and mean deceleration rate of 0.87 m/s^2.
    Verdict: Slightly inaccurate.
    Required improvement: Multiply empty brake force by a factor of 1.12 and adjust so that stopping distance with *corrected* BR182 from 120 km/h is 730m. Multiply loaded brake force by a factor of 1.12 * (GLW / 27.4t) and adjust so that stopping distance from 100 km/h is 500m.

    10. HBL Roos-t wagon weights:

    The empty wagons weigh 25t which is quite correct compared to reality. The loaded wagons weigh 45t which might be a bit low since the models look tightly packed with logs and the loading volume is approximately 135 m^3. With a density for pine tree trunks of 400 kg/m^3 the load should probably be closer to 50-55t which gives a gross weight of 75-80t.

    11. HBL Roos-t empty wagon brake force.
    With a wagon weight of 25t and a brake weight of 28t the stopping distance from 120 km/h is 640m and the mean deceleration rate is 0.97 m/s^2.

    Test results: The calculated stopping distance for the empty wagons (from 120 km/h) with the BR182 subtracted was 1640m and the mean deceleration rate was 0.35 m/s^2.

    Verdict: Inaccurate.
    Required improvement: Multiply current brake force by a factor of 2.8 and adjust so that the stopping distance with a *corrected* BR182 is 690m from 120 km/h.

    12. HBL Roos-t loaded wagon brake force.

    If the 45t wagon weight was intended the brake weights would be 28t (same as for the unloaded wagons) due to the brake selection weight being 50t. The real wagon in this configuration would have a stopping distance of 730m and a mean deceleration rate of 0.57 m/s^2 from 100 km/h.

    Test results: Stopping distance of 630m and mean deceleration rate of 0.67 m/s^2.

    Verdict: Moderately inaccurate.
    Required improvement: For 45t gross weight multiply current brake force by a factor of 0.85 and adjust so that stopping distance from 100 km/h with a *corrected* BR182 is 690m.

    For 80t gross weight: Multiply current brake force by a factor of 1.45 and adjust so that stopping distance from 100 km/h with a *corrected* BR182 is 670m.

    13. HBL Laaers wagon weights.

    With 12 cars weighing approximately 1600kg (I used Opel insignia as reference) the loaded 2-unit wagon will weigh at minimum 49t. The 5x2 wagon train weight in HBL is 269t which gives a 2-unit weight of 53.8t which seems reasonable with tie-down equipment included.

    The empty weights are however incorrect. A real, empty, two-unit would weigh 30.1t while in game the weight is 45.8t, i.e. 15.7t too much.

    Verdict: Half-inaccurate.

    14. HBL Laaers (Empty) brake force.

    I will fill this in when I have time to test.

    15. HBL Laaers (Loaded) brake force.
    From the given weight of less than 54t (for a twin-unit) the BrH is 100. This gives a stopping distance from 100 km/h of 480m with a mean deceleration rate of 0.91 m/s^2.

    Test results: The stopping distance was 1150m with a mean deceleration rate of 0.35 m/s^2.

    Verdict: Inaccurate
    Required improvement: Multiply current brake force by a factor of 2.6 and adjust such that the stopping distance with a *corrected* BR182 is 500m from 100 km/h.


    16. BR182 traction realism.
    I'm not overly familiar with the ES64U2 other than what I have read in operating manuals and some discussions with real drivers but according to the operating manual I have (link), the tractive effort will start at 300 kN from 0 km/h and linearly decrease to 270 kN at 85 km/h and then decrease as 1/v hitting 250 kN at 92 km/h in continuous power (6.4 MW).

    Test results: The BR182 in-game has constant tractive effort of approximately 300 kN up to 75 km/h and then it decreases as 1/v hitting 270 kN at 85 km/h and 250 kN at 92 km/h.

    Verdict: Nearly accurate. Perhaps simulating the 7 MW boost feature.

    17. BR182 Dynamic braking realism.

    The German variants of BR182 will have their dynamic braking effort limited to 150 kN maximum which then decreases to 100 kN between 50 km/h and 40 km/h and then holding constant at 100 kN down to 5 km/h when it linearly decreases to 0 kN right before 0 km/h.

    Test results: The BR182 in-game has a maximum dynamic braking effort of 150 kN. This limit is held constant down to 15 km/h when it linearly decreases to 0 kN right before 0 km/h.

    Verdict: Either inaccurate or it simulates some variant I'm not familiar with.

    18. BR182 Air-compressor behavior.

    The air-compressor "on" button increases the main reservoir pressure without decay in a constant and unbounded fashion. This means that you can reach unrealistic values such as 50 bar after a minute or so (as long as I tested).

    Verdict: Inaccurate.
    Required improvement: "On" button should still limit the MR pressure to some maximum pressure value.

    19. Passenger and freight wagon application and release rates.

    Since R- and P-brake have the same application and release rates and these are nominally 3-5s and 10-20s, respectively, I think DTG should look over these numbers and make sure that the application time is around 4s and the release time is ~ 15s at least for freight trains since I know of several passenger wagons (non-EP) with these timings so It would surprise me if freight wagons performed better.

    I posted this video earlier:
    If you look at 2m20s you will see that the release rate in R-brake is slower than in TSW2 (where release from full service takes 12s) and if you look at 6m00s you see that the application time is close to 5 seconds than the 3.5 in TSW2.


    20. BR146.2.

    After some further testing of the BR146.2 I have some good news. Although the stopping distance for the BR146.2 is slightly too short (910m vs real value of 955m), this is not due to too high brake force but rather because the application time for the in-game BR146 is about 2.6s while the real value is probably closer to 4-5s. When correcting for this the stopping distance becomes perfect.

    EDIT: After watching the video above I'm confident that changing the application time and release time to 4-5s and 15s respectively would improve realism (slightly).
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
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  2. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I am still reading and processing this data, but I am already coming with thanks. You are the boss!
    I was very curious about what it looks like now \o/

    EDIT About "182". Some trained professionals are with us \o/
    Maybe we'll learn something extra in the context of your research :)
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
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  3. Task

    Task Well-Known Member

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    Point 15 "HBL Laaers (Loaded) brake force" resulted in a SPAD for me on the last service in freight chapter of the journey. I hope this gets fixed as the braking distance is way too long.
     
  4. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Laaers are freight wagons with some the best deceleration (excluding empty wagons that can have BrH > 100) since they have automatic load sensing that matches Brake weight to wagon weight such that BrH is 100 for almost all weights.

    Other than empty wagons the only freight wagons that will brake better are some rare high speed intermodal wagons like certain variants of the Sgnss flat container wagons (came with the BR143 from Virtual railroads in TS20XX) that have R-brakes for 160 km/h running.

    In Sweden the railway freight company Green Cargo uses modified Hbis vans from the 1970s (I think) for postal service. These have updated suspension, disc brakes (R-brake) so that they can travel at 160 km/h.

    EDIT: I think the wagons are called Sgss-y 703. These have KE-GPR-A brakes (G,P or R brake with automatic load sensing, KE-valve from Knorr-Bremse)
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
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