Hauptstrecke Munich-augsburg Known Layer Issue

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Oct 22, 2020.

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  1. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

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    As part of the release of Hauptstrecke Munich-Augsburg an issue crept into chapter 3 whereby all the service layers would be enabled. The upshot of this is that you'll be able to see all the layers running in every timetable service. You'll probably also see the reason we intended to disable these layers, as there's likely to be a major performance hit for console players.

    To check whether this has happened please check the number of services running. If it is greater than 330 you have extra layers enabled. If you then suffer from performance problems restarting the game will rectify the situation.

    We'll have this fixed soon, but for now please feel free to experiment with this unanticipated option. It won't damage your game, although your performance may not be playable.

    **Update
    Please could those of you who haven't already explained let me know if you are only using default layers and how your console is performing or if you have them all activated, feel free to post in here or DM me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  2. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    My theory is this - "scripted" scenarios trigger layers. This can also apply to tutorials. If only the timetables were used, the problem would not arise. BR & GL

    Don't forget to mention it in the Roadmap! Such a morning joke ...
    PS That's why restarting the game helps. This is the state before anything runs.
     
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  3. flickyhecky

    flickyhecky Active Member

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    The performance doesn't really bother me, I'm on a PS4 Pro and the graphics do tend to pop up in the distance, but it doesn't detract from my enjoyment.
     
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  4. Maxrom

    Maxrom Active Member

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    Would actually be nice to keep this as an option, so if people (maybe on PS4 Pro) are happy with the performance decrease, but would prefer to see the extra layers, then they can do so. Obviously, it's a feature without warranty, and up to the user, but I think for some who can make it work, it's a nice option until a more fleshed out solution can be delivered.
     
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  5. danistarwars

    danistarwars Member

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    Yes, I realy hope they keep it. Just like GWE for the extra services and longer HST trains.
     
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  6. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Please don't fix this. Im happy icing it like this. Because using certain services may not crash the game.

    Hentis
     
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  7. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    How badly does it effect the PS4 (not pro). I’m thinking of buying it, but not sure I will if it’s got some bad issues with lagging etc.
     
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  8. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    Agree. Have a "experimental" / debug option turned on that allows you to choose various things to enable/disable.
     
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  9. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for making this thread. When I started sharing the initial video showing how to activate the extra layers. I was mostly concerned it might break someone’s game in an unpredictable way, or DTG would heavily frown upon sharing this info. Glad to see you guys embrace the “unexpected”. Thank you for this info!
     
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  10. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Can you please give us all services on the normal way
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  11. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    So...I was curious enough to give this trick a try and had just one layer enabled, that being MSB (I do not have RRO or HRR installed)
    To my surprise, it wasn't that bad actually. Now...the route itself particularly in the Munich/Pasing area is resource heavy.
    But having the MSB layer installed didn't really bring any *further* performance hit.
    This is still barring the fact that the BR 185 and BR 146 themselves are bugged– with their sounds and the fact that there's no destinations programmed for SKA or HMA.

    But it seems that having just one additional layer installed (as opposed to all three) works just fine. Theres no crashes or unexpected behavior or anything. This further reaffirms that us players should at least have the ability to choose and pick which layers we want activated ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  12. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

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    We'll be fixing this as quickly as possible as for those not in the know it'll be a poor experience. We're working to reinstate all layers for console players but it will take a little longer to arrive.
     
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  13. Maxrom

    Maxrom Active Member

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    Time to turn off auto updates people..... unless you are having real problems, in which case, carry on.
     
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  14. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    But Xbox Series X and PS5 want working fine as a highend PC for all layers DTG Natster
     
  15. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Just out of curiosity: Is this the official confirmation that console players will get all the layers as opposed to Matt‘s comment that you‘re working on it but with no official guarantee?

    Edit: Syntax
     
  16. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

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    Our intention is to have parity across all platforms, this will continue to be worked on.
     
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  17. Maxrom

    Maxrom Active Member

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    Those are some carefully chosen words...
     
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  18. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like Matt‘s comment is still the official position then.
     
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  19. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    For anybody wondering, I will link to a thread where you can find a video showing how to unofficially unlock all layers for Munich. Just know that if you do this your game is not guaranteed to run smoothly. We will obviously have to wait for a patch to have this function in the official manner and try to remember even though it is possible, it’s not like DTG weren’t making this available at launch for a reason so try not to assume that DTG had any ill intentions by keeping the layers out of the console version. DTG obviously wants to improve our experience with it.
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/munich-augsburg-question.28963/#post-194296
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  20. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the replies, when it comes to platform parity TSW2 has been on par with all other releases other then this one hiccup and I appreciate the team sharing what the reason is.
     
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  21. Ischollum

    Ischollum Member

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    Delete the S4 Service and put the Regionalexpress into it. Problem solve.
    I've got Ruhr Osten, Köln - Aachen and Main Spessart all three with 8 Trains and 200 Hundreds Services?
    Main Spessart with 300 Services and no problem.
    What is the problem?
    Btw. I am playing with PS4 not pro.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  22. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I’m not going to criticise DTG when the limitations of the current generation consoles are being exceeded. We are on the very cusp of the next generation machines, so clearly the current generation are near end of life. You cannot get blood out of a stone.
     
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  23. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Apart from your unnecessarily hostile demeanor at the end I think your idea of deleting the S4 could be problematic. I‘m no expert on these things (please educate me if I‘m wrong) but my gut tells me this could lead to legal trouble (as in paying from something that they then take away from you).
    And from my understanding, the problem is not the number of services itself. From what I understand all of the different models (think of all the differnet trains added through the layers) being loaded in at the same time in an already resource intensive environment (München Hbf) is causing problems. On that note: If my understanding is correct, then deleting the S4 would not even really benefit you as you still need to load the Br 423 model.
     
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  24. flickyhecky

    flickyhecky Active Member

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    It will be interesting to see how my PS5 copes in 4 weeks, can you at least hold fire until then so we can tell you how it's behaving?
     
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  25. Ischollum

    Ischollum Member

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    So let us get serious.
    They put the S4 Service into the Game that this Game will not be boring.
    But without an regional and freight it will be boring for console.
    To be honest I don't care cause I have every german route except the Augsburg - München. So when I want play freight and localservice I can play it everywhere except Leipzig - Dessau and even Augsburg - München cause there is no satisfaction, even that there is no satisfaction I not playing Leipzig - Dessau.

    But back to Topic.
    The S4 Service use the same path like the S3 it is just a gap filler and more not, even like the S9 Service on RRO, i think they are 3 stops or more?

    You see the problem.
    On RRO was the same problem why is there no RB48 as an Talent, so we have to put more satisfaction for the player, so they decided to put the S9 into the Game. I think a extension to Oberbarmen would be better, but that's my opinion.

    I hope they will fix it, cause they are doing a nice job but they has got no options for console player. They've got three systems PC, PS4 and Xbox they have to find a solution for all off them. But no Localservice might be a stupid mistake.

    30 Euro for ICE and S Bahn without Local and freightservice. Nope that Addon don't deserve my money and I was hyped for this Route and now I am angry.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  26. Maxrom

    Maxrom Active Member

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    You haven't even bought the new route, so whilst I understand you may not like the current situation, it's not like you've given any money for it. Wait and see if they get the fixes done, and the layers added, and then decide if you want to buy it later. That's what I'm now doing for this route, as there's too many question marks around performance and layers to make it worth my purchase. I'm hopeful they'll fix it, and if they do, then they have made another sale. If not, then I'll give it a miss and carry on enjoying the routes I do own. Not worth getting worked up over it.
     
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  27. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    I have the oldest most bog standard PS4 in circulation and it runs fine with these layers. Thanks for leaving us a back door to use them. Might appear as an Emperors new clothes opinion to have on the 1st day, but this is a cracking route with great scenery and lots of action.
     
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  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Comments like this make me wonder what people view as "value"
    You've got a new route with major stations, sidings, signals, a new safety system in metro LZB, a few hundred services and scenarios but nope, 30 euros isn't good value. "I need those extra services (which require me to buy at least two additional routes and locos for them to work) to make it good value..."
     
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  29. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    You can get all the services. The same way we managed to do it via Journey mode on GWE.
     
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  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think you missed the point of my comment
     
  31. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Fixed doesn't mean this option is taken away I hope? We had a similar unintended expanded service mode in Great Western Express last year. It benefited the Playstation version greatly. With no real game breaking consequences.
     
  32. Ischollum

    Ischollum Member

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    Yeah I like satisfaction what is the problem?
    I wanted buy that Addon but with their solution for us console players. I will not betray my principles.

    And I have got the RRO and Ruhrpott Addon.
    So I don't have to pay for more Addons .
     
  33. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    But you already have. So the cost of that goes against the running of the services.
    And their solution was so that your console didn't crash completely after running out of memory. Either way I don't think 30€ is that much to ask for everything you get
     
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  34. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Consoles are reaching the limit of their powers with routes like this. The layers are working fine in general via the workaround but the console likely couldnt handle too much more, in areas such as Munich. Although using my base PS4 with 427 services available whilst running at 18-22fps at Munich 3 403's in the station 2 423s departing trains in the yards, Landmark buildings and lots of track. Once out of that area Im back to 28-37fps, for the rest of the route.
     
  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And there's a known memory hog in that area so that might not be to do with the services anyway... all good
     
  36. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    The only hitch I had ironically,was my 1st run departing Munich in the 403. That was before I enabled the extra layers.
    No crashes yet.
     
  37. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I don't have the route yet, but watching videos it seems that the problems are not caused by the layers. The slowdowns still appear on ps4, while activating the additional layers does not work worse, but at least you can enjoy that extra traffic. I'm going to buy the dlc today only because those layers can be unlocked. So DTG please don't do anything to lock them, or do something so that we can choose the option to choose to lock or unlock the layers. Try to find the real reason for the poor performance for this route.
    Remember that they blocked trains in GWR and it did not affect the performance on consoles as you could see.
    Thank you and sorry for my poor English.:)
     
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  38. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Yep! That lack of “value” they said Augsburg - München has, is slightly misplaced when if you want to play the full game with all the “layers” you need to spend in excess of €100 anyway!

    Not singling you out Ischollum by the way, but there’s genuine things to moan about with this game at times. However your gripe is unnecessarily targeted and unreasonable.
     
  39. Lenwigg

    Lenwigg Well-Known Member

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    I would purchase it if for sure if it was not for the fact they might stop us from using the extra layers. As it is I am undecided. Your English is very good by the way.
     
  40. gaetanoavino2

    gaetanoavino2 Member

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    [QUOTE = "Lamplight, post: 194719, member: 20595"] A parte il tuo comportamento inutilmente ostile alla fine, penso che la tua idea di eliminare l'S4 potrebbe essere problematica. Non sono un esperto in queste cose (per favore istruiscimi se sbaglio) ma il mio istinto mi dice che questo potrebbe portare a problemi legali (come nel pagare qualcosa che poi ti portano via).
    E dalla mia comprensione, il problema non è il numero di servizi in sé. Da quello che ho capito tutti i diversi modelli (si pensi a tutti i diversi treni aggiunti attraverso i livelli) caricati contemporaneamente in un ambiente già ad alta intensità di risorse (München Hbf) sta causando problemi. In questa nota: se la mia comprensione è corretta, l'eliminazione dell'S4 non ti gioverebbe nemmeno perché devi comunque caricare il modello Br 423. [/ QUOTE]
     
  41. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    That’s how it has always worked. If you own other DLC that can run on a certain route it has the potential to add to your services. If someone doesn’t want to purchase the other content they don’t have to, but you can’t expect to get locomotives that came with other DLC for free to use on the one route you might buy. If you enjoy TSW2 though, those routes that add layers are a great experience on their own.
     
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  42. gaetanoavino2

    gaetanoavino2 Member

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    They had at least originally extended the S3 up to ostbanhof, not even that they tried to do (4/5 stations are missing)
     
  43. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Theres some really good stuff on this route. Currently waiting on an embankment ready to join the main line from a well detailed siding area. Lots of clutter and overgrowth. Once another 423 passes I can go.
     
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  44. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    I can understand, especially as a freight fan. You also have to be reasonable, as this is a product for many people and not just yourself and if it doesn’t meet your expectations then don’t buy the route until the issue is fixed or when it goes on sale if you don’t feel you won’t get any enjoyment from it as it is. I can also understand being upset that PC are able to use the extra layers but we can’t, we also have to be reasonable there as well, they have explained the reasons for this and have been upfront about it. Is it okay to be disappointed? Yes.
     
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  45. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Can I add having just drove out of Munich that it is by far the most detailed and full area, with all of the unique buildings and bridges and tracks. Not to mention that amazing looking Train wash. It may drop in FPS but I am absolutely impressed and amazed.
     
  46. Ischollum

    Ischollum Member

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    So I have bought this Game, cause I've heard from the glitch and wantto help dovetail. So I decided to drive an RE from Augsburg to München Pasing with BR 425.
    Why München Pasing, cause the Game crash there.
    My suspicions have been confirmed the S4.
    There are to much of them.
    I want to help Dovetail and so the Addon is really good it makes fun with layers . But if you crosses München Pasing the Game crashes cause that so much using S4.

    When they solve the problem it is a must have.
     
  47. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    I played the BR 425 from Augsburg to München on 05:02 in the Morning and the Game is crashed 3,7 Kilometer before München Hbf

    There was no other train for the reason
     
  48. Ischollum

    Ischollum Member

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    I have taken the duty on 9 a.m
     
  49. Bob12212

    Bob12212 Well-Known Member

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    Very true. PCs also have a life cycle, that need upgraded hardware from time to time. Yet some expect console to last forever. Would you expect a mid range PC from 7 years ago to run this 100% smoothly, without any upgrades.
     
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  50. flickyhecky

    flickyhecky Active Member

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    Second to last station with all layers on...im guessing all that information gave my PS4 Pro a headache! DSC_0017.JPG
     
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