Headlights Are A Joke

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by sinnere, Jul 31, 2021.

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  1. sinnere

    sinnere Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    American locomotive headlights are EXTREMELY BRIGHT. The headlights on the AC4400 in the game are a joke. I have them on bright aux and they aren't lighting up the tracks ahead as they should.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
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  2. pugilist3

    pugilist3 Member

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    Yes, they are!
     
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  3. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to Train Sim World!

    (hey, we don't have decent headlights but if you open the pause menu you will appreciate the new gradient system)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
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  4. puternut

    puternut New Member

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    Someone once said that the headlights are not so much there to make you see ahead but to let other drivers etc see you!
     
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  5. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    That is correct, but the US do have strong headlights. EU headlights are much less bright.
     
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  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    In the UK, true, but in the US they should light up for ages ahead. In game this would cause a load of issues so they tone it down
     
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  7. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    So I suppose these are US trains too.
    In addition, the Taurus (ES 64 U2) featured in the game has great beams of light.

    And again, below we are in Norway. Go to the dark sections of the video, where there is no external lighting.

     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
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  8. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Aside from the natural performance issues, one of those issues is that it would look pants on head stupid in daylight, like it sometimes does in TS1.
     
  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Depends on how they did it. You can see plane lights from a few miles away. They're "spots of light" rather than casting a glow or shadow, but you can definitely see them
     
  10. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    It'll be interesting to see the headlights and ditch lights on the ACS-64 and F40PH- 3C. When waiting at my local station day or night, when the PA announces that "the next train will arrive in 4 minutes", I can see the full beam headlight clearly already. And when it's about a half mile away, I can see the ditch lights flashing and hear the bell. This is true even with the Cab Car leading.
    Full beam headlights would not look out of place any time of day or night. What we have currently on the Clinchfield F7, for example, is the equivalent of the candle on my first birthday cake.
    The headlights on the Cane Creek locos are actually an improvement, thanks to Skyhook, though still not real- life authentic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
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  11. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Having watched a few US videos their Trains have powerful headlights, shame its not in the game for those that want it my biggest issue with lighting is at the stations. Look at Cathcart at say 10pm or later you can hardly see what you are stopping at and I bet it is the same for other routes yeah?
     
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  12. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    OK, maybe "Pants on head stupid" is a bit harsh, but this is what I mean. In broad daylight, I don't think the headlight should be lighting up that much of the ground (certainly for a British train, not sure on elsewhere), maybe reflected off the rails a bit, yeah, but not the ground, also note it lighting up the bridge, too, and it was casting fairly dark shadows too.
    20210731233945_1.jpg 20210731233948_1.jpg
     
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  13. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Making the headlights nearly worthless at night just to make sure they don't show up in the day is like cutting off your leg to help get rid of a pimple. You may have solved the former problem, but now you've introduced far larger and more painful problems that are way worse than what you were dealing with before. Seeing the headlights during the daylight is nothing more than a mild annoyance, which you'll just learn to live with, not being able to see anything at night however just makes night ops unfun. Well unless you have a stupidly bright moon like with say Peninsula Corridor, but in that case it's far more immersion breaking than just having day headlights.
     
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  14. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    We do have the ability to adjust headlights in the game for individual locos. If you think the headlights are too bright or annoying, can't you just turn them to low beam. As it stands, some services on Clinchfield and Cathcart are unplayable. Of course it's not just a headlight issue, ambient lighting is a real problem on some routes.
     
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  15. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Just going through some old TSW1 screenshots, this one was taken shortly after the initial release of CSX HH (March 2017-ish); you can see here that headlights used to be alot brighter before SPG received its overhaul prior to TSW2's release

    Unfortunately I didn't take any in-cab shots at the time....but the exterior shots are quite different from then until now

    TSW CSX:HH (2017)

    upload_2021-8-1_11-25-17.png

    TSW2 (2020)

    upload_2021-8-1_11-26-36.png
     
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  16. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Nice work, Yerolo. I'd love to hear the explanation.
     
  17. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    The headlights / lighting in general received a fairly hefty nerf in TSW2...as the bright old lighting still exists in TSW2020 which I still have installed. Taken just now...at around the same time.

    TSW2020

    upload_2021-8-1_12-50-43.png

    TSW2

    upload_2021-8-1_12-51-39.png

    and some interior cab shots from the GP40-2 in TSW2020 on and off

    TSW2020 GP40-2 Headlights & Ditch Lights off

    upload_2021-8-1_12-52-54.png


    TSW2020 GP40-2 Headlights & Ditch Lights on

    upload_2021-8-1_12-53-13.png

    TSW2

    upload_2021-8-1_13-1-57.png


    IMO I think the lighting in general has been nerfed in TSW2....It would be nice to go back to the way it was in TSW2020, but then ppl would complain about it being too dark again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
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  18. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    I'd say the UK is the odd man out in this regard. In Sweden the headlights are quite bright.
     
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  19. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

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    I would rather have headlights that are to bright during day and have a great time using these during night (TS style) than have headlights that are unusable and make any night drive a torture since the world in TSW is way darker than it should and lacks ambient lights around city's and stations during night. As many have already said beside UK the vast majority of locos in the EU have very strong headlights that can lit up 100m and more of track. In the game the Traxx series, ICE3 and Talent light up 4m or less of track. How is that for a realistic and pleasant driving experience in a pitch black world ?
     
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  20. BladesAndRazors

    BladesAndRazors Member

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    You want to say the engine has no feature to disable or dim the lights intensity in daylight, even by code? Doubt.
     
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  21. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    This. It wouldn't be rocket science to have proper headlights for night that are not too bright during daylight.
     
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  22. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 Well-Known Member

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    I find it quite concerning that in the UK we are told that headlights are not for the driver to see, but for the train to be seen. How crazy is this? A high speed train zooming along at 125mph, without the driver being able to see ahead ? Any obstruction or danger ahead cannot be seen with a full load of passengers? I think I'll stop travelling by train after dark!
     
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  23. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    The engine itself does not have a feature to do so. Not that i know about (who i am.. i know nothing :D ). The way to do that is to get the idea what time and date it is at every rendered frame and regulate the lights with that data. That is a quite bad idea performance wise.

    Spotlights in UE4 are generally bad. I tried this years ago with a project where i needed a flash light that can light up about 1km in distance, but that was not working at all. You have to drive up the gain of that lightsource so much, that you 'burn out' all near by assets (the basically get white) to have a tiny light at the far distance. No idea how to solve that yet.
     
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  24. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Active Member

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    I mean even in broad daylight at 125mph you will not see an obstruction far enough away to be able to stop in time given it takes in the order of 1600-2000m to stop from those speeds. You may be able to take a bit of the edge of perhaps but still fairly unlikely, by the time you see an obstruction the brakes will not have time to have much if any effect (in daylight).
     
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  25. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Like Ed just said, it makes no difference if you're going high speed, often there'd be no way you'd be able to see an obstruction and take action and stop even in best conditions. Anyway, can you tell me how many accidents happened with high speed trains in the UK because the headlights meant the driver couldn't see? My guess is it's in single figures.
     
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  26. BladesAndRazors

    BladesAndRazors Member

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  27. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't the worst High Speed Train accident the fault of the ICE in Germany? I think it was the wrong type of wheels, they were taken from a Tram. You would of thought German Engineering would of seen this but no. I think over a hundred people died.
     
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  28. BladesAndRazors

    BladesAndRazors Member

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    Well you are right but the situation was a bit more complicated. The DB is a government organisation and can create its own permits without further tests. This leaded to the permitted usage of the wheels and it's consequences.

    This video recaps the situation whiteout shocking pictures:
    It's German but maybe it has subtitles.

    Nonetheless we want more lights at night on trains and also on buildings.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
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  29. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Of yourse, i had a read over those pages alot but also years ago. Seems there are changes. Especially the flash light thing is new to me at least. I will give it a try for my G6s brights.

    What i also wanted to try is an IES profile. But there are so much profiles. To find a right one that fits to a locos bright headlight is not easy. I don't know what lamps are used and what reflector it is. If you or soemone can help with searching for a good working IES, i would try that too. I really don't like the linear looking lights they are in TSW yet.
     
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  30. pugilist3

    pugilist3 Member

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    I really hope one of the talented Modder's are able to find a solution to the terrible looking headlights.
     
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  31. Teflon490

    Teflon490 Member

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    I think nobody properly understood OP's complaint (or I am reading it wrong :) ), but to me it seems he is mistaking the limited shadow draw distance with headlights being too bright, because he sees SUN in the distance. Nowhere he mentioned lights being too weak, but that is what everyone here is rambling about :)
     
  32. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The problem with the lights, all lights not just headlights, in TSW isn’t confined to their brightness. It’s the beam angle, throw and diffusion that are also big issues. None of them do a good job of replicating real life light fittings. I don’t know why and I don’t know how it can be improved but no artificial light sources or the light they emit look good in TSW. It may be one of those things we just have to live with due to the way light is handled in the game engine.
     
  33. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Headlight was so much better in beginning. But even then it was not as in reality.
    It was to short. Train simulator 2020 have same issue.
    Here Matt talking about this. Wonder if it have with Unreal engine this problem
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  34. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    very easy call epic help
     
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  35. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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  36. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    That Fernbus light is nothing else than a overdriven lightsource with the same range as the TSW ones basically have. The normal headlights actually have some IES profile on it but are also way to bright. This is doable in TSW and i think it was at the first release and looked not so good. I will expermiment with the lights a bit later today. Already found a huge database of IES profiles. Some of them kinda fit the data a bright headlight will have on a locomotive (40-70k CD, ~6000LM).
     
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  37. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    So when he said 'American locomotive headlights are EXTREMELY BRIGHT. The headlights on the AC4400 in the game are a joke' he wasn't referring to the headlights being too weak? And where was the Sun reference?
     
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  38. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    You're reading it wrong. He says that american locomotive headlights are supposed to be strong, yet in the game they are too weak.
     
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  39. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Is this something you would expect (at least from a little german shunter loco with brights)? It uses a IES profile and lights up about 300m (with falloff)

    SNAP-000102.08.2021.png SNAP-000002.08.2021.png
     
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  40. Lightspeed

    Lightspeed Active Member

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    When it comes to American headlights, I think that Peninsula Corridor gets the headlights about right from what I know off. The headlights on Sand Patch and Clinchfield are barely seen from the cab. Headlights on German stock varies by what train/loco you’re driving in. I can barely see with the headlight on the ICE train set to high beam bright and yet on locos like the DB BR 101,146 and 182 the path is illuminated before me.
     
  41. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    You are good. Yeah with shunter is maybe Ok but with American Loco (or Sweden Loco) it should be brighter
    Maybe 600m
     
  42. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely it does vary. I don't have too many problems driving the German locos, although some I haven't driven yet. It's partly due to better headlights and more ambient lighting. Penn Corridor and Oakville are OK, as is SPG, all because of decent ambient lighting, not that their locos have great headlights. The two problem routes are Cathcart and CRR, both excellent in terms of modeling and gameplay, but woefully lacking in all manner of lighting. I can't say that any train (and I have them all) has very good headlights. I'm worried about the Rush Hour locos, but, since they are all urban/suburban routes for the most part, the environmental lighting should help.
     
  43. Teflon490

    Teflon490 Member

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    Ok, you're right, my bad. The first sentence refers to the real life, not ingame. Since there is sun visible in the screenshot in the distance, I though he is talking about this, thinking it is the lights illuminating the track so far ahead.
     
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  44. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    I tried that too and it works good if you find a usable IES profile and set up the lights correct. I got it lit up the tracks for about 1km in my test. But there are some disadvantages when doing that. The light looks good in the driving direction. But when a trains faces towards your as a player, it looks way to bright on the tracks. That may have to do with the way how the tracks are rendered. And it maybe has a huge impact on performance if there are alot of scenery assets around (on my test track there is just empty space).
     
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  45. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Is there a possibility to change the light configuration between player and AI in this case? I've been out of this for too many years now and only have my MSTS memories as a benchmark - but there it was easily possible.
    If not my only idea would be to run AI trains in a different light setting configuration, e.g. Headlight dim instead of full beam. Maybe not ideal but a compromise..
     
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  46. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    Yeah But you have succeed to change this in TSW2, and you have succeed to get good headlight but
    you have even managed to see the problems. perhaps best as it is right now.
    Yes it seems this a Unreal problems. we may have to wait for this until Unreal has solve the problem
     
  47. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    I agree the lighting is poor in the game compared to real life, etc…. but your argument doesn’t really stand. How about in thick fog? Trains still run without restriction at 125mph. And fog can be so thick that you can go over the AWS magnet and still not be able to see your signal.

    DE8F850A-9CF0-4C73-B284-D7D2E6A2A8D8.jpeg
     
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  48. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Possible, yes. But there is the problem that in TSW a palyer can possess any AI train at any given time (and there is no player-has-given-control-back-to-AI event to switch back to the AI version of the lights what needs then polling data what is bad). To solve all the possible situations you need to put in alot of time (that we developers usally not have).
     
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  49. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    You don't even have to possess a train to be able to mess with it - Many times on GWE I've gone into the cab of an AI Class 166 and turned on the wipers and/or passenger lights and then nicked off back into the passenger area.
     
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  50. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    Now we may have found that it is Unreal wrong that headlight is so bad. Both Matt and Maik say so now.
    We have been complaining about the lights for many years now but it has only been quiet from dovetail

    They could well have told us that due to unreal, we can not currently make a good headlight.
    Then I would have calmed down. Because you almost thought it did it on purpose. or could not unreal well enough.

    So it does not hurt if Dovetail goes in sometimes and explains the situation then you understand how everything is connected
     
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