Headlights In Ntp

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by ildario77, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    I ran a full route session with NTP and Class 47. With train headlights on, tunnels look completely dark. Am I missing something or is it meant to be like this? Considering how bad tunnels are in TSW, maybe better not to see them :D
     
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  2. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Yes thats normal in the UK. The headlights are actually not to illuminate but rather to show it is an active unit. Ill try and post more detailed info later. Theres a table in the regulations that stipulates luminosity and its ridiculously low. Basically its a bit of a relic from the days of steam if memory serves me correctly.

    Edit- https://catalogues.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GMRT2131 Iss 1.pdf

    Which is found from here..
    https://catalogues.rssb.co.uk/railw...OR rgsolDocumentInternalNumber:"Visibility*")
     
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  3. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    Here's a real life cab view trip from Huddersfield into Manchester which includes some of the tunnels on the route. It's quite dark!

    Marsden is at 8.30
    I should add it's a fairly recent video, you'll see how the route has changed in places.
     
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  4. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, thanks. Didn't know that!
     
  5. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I posted a feature request on this here:
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/new-lighting-feature-for-class-47.18094/

    Those two white marker lights are not meant to be super bright, but they are meant to emit light. So in a very dark tunnel, you should see some subtle reflections, and get a sense of movement. You should certainly see a reflection off highly reflective signs, and the odd bit of junk on the track, etc. The BLU version of the Class 47 doesn't have light sources, it has "glow" textures (like the signals).

    I do love the real life videos from cabs, but you should remember that the camera in these cases does not capture what the eye sees when it adapts to darkness. The white balance is often set to daylight, so the dark you see in the videos isn't real - unless the camera's settings are changed (or it has auto white balance). In real life your pupil expands and low lit colours fade out, but you will see greys (and bright signals as colours). There are a couple of night scenarios (on MSB I think) where the landscape goes grey - and to me, it looks really realistic.... ;-)

    On NTP, I would trade no light source on the 47 for more light sources from buildings and traffic (windows, etc.).

    But best of all, would be light sources from the signals, both the ones on the ground, and high up. A green cast of light bouncing around the cab as you pass a green light, would bring a huge amount of atmosphere - just a hint, as these lamps are directionally focussed.
     
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  6. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    It's been a while since I skimmed through a Railway Group Standard. I wonder if they will drop all of the UIC stuff, and TSI requirements, if the UK leaves the European Union. I have a funny feeling that the European standards will be kept.
     
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  7. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    I'd say the video was pretty representative. Most likely is auto aperture and/or ISO if digital so would be replicating the pupil and therefore adjusting to low light. I was never convinced that high-intensity headlights (such as those retrofitted to BR locomotives) were ever installed to enable driver vision in the dark. More to improve visibility and warning to those on the track during the day.
     
  8. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Im very inclined to agree. My understanding is that most regulatory matters will simply cough cough be transferred onto the UK statutes for continuity purposes until such time they can be adjusted if required. Standardisation for parts etc will make economic sense as well. My personal view is that there shouldnt cough cough be too much disruption..
     
  9. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Good post- that idea about light bouncing around the cab- how immersive and great suggestion :)
     
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  10. Bamz2317

    Bamz2317 Member

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    I've been looking for a cab ride on this route. Thanks
     
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  11. Bamz2317

    Bamz2317 Member

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    Since im Australian my knowledge about uk railways is limited. Ntp is set in 1983, back then locos didn't have headlights only marker lights. I did a early morning service on tees valley, pitch black couldn't see anything outside sp i cant imagine how hard it woul of been in real life
     
  12. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Anyway, DTG should add some building lights. At daytime the scenery looks great, but at night it looks like humans completely vanished.
     
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  13. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    Here's a run in the opposite direction. Skip to the 35 minutes mark and It'll just be leaving Manchester Victoria. There appears to be a little more illumination from the lights in the tunnels, but not by much.

    Try to spot Miles Platting station. It looks run down in the game but in the video it's run off!


    Perhaps DTG are recreating the power cuts caused by the miners strike that was in that era. :D
     
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  14. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Ahh that would explain no smoke coming from the chimneys of the houses as well.. ;)
     
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  15. -PjM-

    -PjM- Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, and the power stations you pass never have any activity either. I think we're on to something here. It seems then that it's not something missing but instead a nice attention to detail. :love:
     
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  16. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Active Member

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    Amusingly the reason you don't see any activity in the power stations is because all 3 of them had actually closed by the time the route was set and were just sitting derelict waiting for demolition.

    Hartshead Power station (between Stalybridge and Mossley) was decommissioned 29th October 1979
    Huddersfield Power station was decommissioned 26th October 1981
    Thornhill Power station (next to Ravensthorpe) decommissioned 1st November 1982
     
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  17. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    I decided to delete my previous post- it was bothering me a bit as I felt it was a bit unfair and didnt really offer anything constructive. There wasnt much in it nevertheless it wasnt particularly kind or thoughtful which isnt really acceptable. Apologies for that. Have a good day, the better for my previous post being removed ;) :)
    DominusEdwardius thanks for the info on the powerstations. My family had first hand experience of the closures albeit in the Burnley area back in the early 1970s. A difficult time in this country. Appreciate the detail on these three though :)
     
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  18. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    In NTP, you get a good feel for light bouncing around from the platform lights at Leeds and Manchester stations, as you leave those stations, at night. (And then nothing....).

    But today I was on the MSB freight services (Journey 3, module 4), which is early evening (7.30pm ish)? In the pouring rain and dimming light, the route builders have de-saturated the scenery, which looks fab. When you go through some of the stations very fast, you get a bright white light flickering on your desk, that looks like lightning (but is from the stations). Other oncoming traffic has headlight on full beam, so that bounces around your cab too. But by far the most impressive, to me, is that blue light that bounces around when you pass the double-decker passenger stock - those chilled out blue lights in the ceiling of the top decks are light sources, and the light passes through two windows and bounces off the back of your cab - it is very subtle, but it is quite superb.

    The MSB builders did a fantastic job. A superbly optimised route (technically), and utterly beautiful, with a wide range of rolling stock, and signalling features. And then they've gone added atmosphere too. Really very very good. It's a shame that the artists, builders and programmers are let down by the UI, and the rest of the packaging around their extremely talented hard work on the MSB modules.
     
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  19. Bamz2317

    Bamz2317 Member

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    What am i missing? Im not from the uk
     
  20. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    There was quite a lot of industrial relations trouble around the 1980s in the UK and the coal fired powerstations in NTP are tied in with that. In the game youll notice they are inactive. At the time many coal fired stations were closing. See the following link for an insight that will give your next NTP drive some context..
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_miners'_strike_(1984–85)
     
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  21. Bamz2317

    Bamz2317 Member

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    Thanks
     

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