Hope Valley (stand-alone)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Limeyfox, Oct 17, 2022.

  1. Limeyfox

    Limeyfox Active Member

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    Hi folks

    Does anyone know of a release date for the standalone version of Hope Valley route, from Just Trains?
     
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  2. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    It is shown as In Development and I suspect JT are waiting to see if any errors pop up on the Extension route.
    That way they don't have to patch two routes

    Just sign up on this page for an email when available
    https://www.justtrains.net/product/hope-valley

    It is unlikely that anyone on these pages would know when it will be released.
     
  3. 878606

    878606 Member

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    Developers never mention dates for releases so yes no one knows, and just follow what above reply said sign up for JT emails and they will notify you when it comes available or follow them on their social media channels
     
  4. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Watch the Just Trains stream on the route tonight and the release date will probably be announced. Maybe with a discount only while the stream is on! Well you won’t know if you don’t listen, but they have said that they will be giving away a free copy of the Hope Valley route and the Nottingham Lincoln route to a couple of lucky listeners. https://m.facebook.com/100063665254447/
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2022
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  5. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Great stream by Just Trains last night for well over two hours sampling scenarios on the Nottingham to Lincoln and Hope Valley. Generous free giveaway of both routes too, which I didn’t partake in as I already own all JTs MML routes.

    Watch the stream here if you missed it.
     
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  6. yagna2308

    yagna2308 Member

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    Hi DTG,
    Considering the fact that the standalone version of Hope Valley is now released by Just Trains, please do consider bringing it on steam, like the other MML addons.
     
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  7. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Just Trains has the final say if/when it is released to Steam - it is their route.
     
  8. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Odds are it will come to Steam. The big question is how the assets will be packaged. They are different for each MML route and this can cause issues if installed in the wrong order, so that needs to be fixed.
     
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  9. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    All the JT Routes that come to Steam are Stand Alone - like this one.
    You don't get thru running with any other route so you can install them in any order.
    IF you want to have the routes joined together You Must buy them from JT where the Extension routes are cheaper.
     
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  10. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Glad someone knows what they're talking about.
     
  11. ex_railwayman

    ex_railwayman Active Member

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    There were only 2 Asset folders I had with the extension, both under Just Trains - Common Library and Hope Valley, I assume as this is a standalone route you shouldn't have any other asset folders besides these and they will bundle the Sheffield Station and surrounding scenery bits in the Hope Valley folder, I presume.

    Cheerz. Steve.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2022
  12. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    You do not understand my comment. AP files in each MML route are not consistent. If you install Sheffield-Derby after either other route, you will lose files in the newer AP file being overwritten.
    He actually misunderstood me.
     
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  13. WhippleStripper

    WhippleStripper Active Member

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    Cyclone, do you understand that what's being discussed is the standalone version of Hope Valley? The order of installation of the MML routes is irrelevant because they are a different product.
     
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  14. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I said odds are it will come to Steam, meaning the standalone version. 749006 replied thinking I was talking about the merged version. Having looked at the DLC myself through SteamDB, I know the AP files are different sizes in all Steam-based MML DLC. Do you understand my train of thinking here?

    EDIT: Thought I'd clarify this further. Here is Sheffield-Derby from SteamDB:

    upload_2022-11-3_20-47-24.png

    Here is Derby to Nottingham:

    upload_2022-11-3_20-48-43.png

    I'd show you Nottingham to Lincoln, but unfortunately, SteamDB doesn't have the complete info for that available. The first two, however, are clearly different sizes. 1.23 GB vs. 1.30 GB. And fairly sure the third is also different.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2022
  15. Johnno124

    Johnno124 Active Member

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    I think you are misunderstanding here, The Hope valley route as standalone is in a separate folder so the AP file wouldn't be overwritten.
     
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  16. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    If this is true, and the MMLAssets AP file (edited in above) is not overwritten, this is good information.
     
  17. Johnno124

    Johnno124 Active Member

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    I think i see where the confusion is lying now. You are referring to the AP file in the Assets folder. I thought you were talking about the AP File in the Route folder. It does appear that there is an issue then given all the routes seem to use the same assets path rather than having a unique path. Saves file size but does mean it needs to be installed in the right order regardless.
     
  18. yagna2308

    yagna2308 Member

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    In that case, if steam / DTG program the DLC pull from the server to the player PC in such a way to check which MML routes the player owns and download it in the order of its release, the problem could be sorted.

    For example, if a player owns Sheffield - Derby and Leicester - Derby & Nottingham, then Sheffield - Derby route should be downloaded from the server first and not the Leicester route. The priority/order of each MML DLC could be set and checked (on server side) first before pulling the files.
     
  19. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    The issue can be solved by making the files identical. The issue is the standalone routes each have all the compass points and destinations for the entire merge - even Matlock - and the route is not truly set up as its own little route at any time.
     
  20. yagna2308

    yagna2308 Member

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    We can only hope DTG / Just Trains consider the points mentioned above and make the player experience better. :)
     
  21. trevkiwi

    trevkiwi Member

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    I asked on JT's FB page when Hope Valley was first released if it was coming to Steam and they said that it would be. No time frame was given.
     
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  22. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    You are both confusing the Stand Alone Routes and Extension Routes.
    The JT Routes released thru Steam are Stand Alone - You can buy them in any order thru Steam and they will install correctly.
    If that did not happen you would see a lot of people complaining.

    Just Trains sells the MML Sheffield - Derby and you can buy the Extension routes and install them to create a big map that extends from Manchester to Sheffield to Derby to Leicester and to Nottingham and Lincoln. Also the Barrow Hill, Matlock and Toton Extensions
    So you could run a service from Manchester to Lincoln or Leicester.

    If you buy the same routes off Steam they don't join up so you would have to run Manchester to Sheffield, Sheffield to Derby and Derby to Leicester as three separate scenarios on three different maps
     
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  23. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I conducted tests this morning and can actually confirm Steam is behaving correctlly. In the past, I had discovered issues with the install of some JT files, but know another case that was found on this forum was in fact fixed, so perhaps some backend work was done to fix any outstanding issues with Steam replacing the incorrect files or leaving files missing after uninstalling something, replacing files with other versions as necessary. I don't remember it doing this before, but uninstalling Lincoln actually made Steam download the older version of the file for the older route. This is the first time I've seen this. I should conduct further testing elsewhere.

    Note some AP files may still have conflicting files and cause issues, but maybe those also got worked out. Only way to know is to try, say, running the Steam versions of Chiltern, Aylesbury, and Metropolitan next to each other.
     
  24. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I don't get why anyone would want to by any of the MML routes as standalone off steam. Wouldn't you want them all joined up?
     
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  25. ex_railwayman

    ex_railwayman Active Member

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    Well, it all depends, the bigger the route the more chance of having it crash on our computers, I suppose. Manchester to Lincoln and down to Leicester, so far, is a couple of hundred miles of track altogether, at a guess, as well as the other extensions like Barrow Hill, Derwent Valley, etc. We have no idea if Just Trains, or, the actual route developers, are going to expand these routes, will they carry on, there's not been any mention of any further instalments, has there? Where could they go next, down to Bedford, and across to Doncaster, via Leeds, which could link up with other 3rd party routes and offerings from DTG, we'll have to wait and see.
    But, I can understand folks just wanting one small piece of the route as a standalone layout.

    Cheerz. Steve.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2022
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  26. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I have yet to see a real reason for merging Manchester. Unless there are direct services from south of Sheffield (like Derby) I don’t know about.
     
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  27. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    Not if you aren't interested in the other parts of the network.

    Although I've got JT's Western Mainlines, I bought Cornish Mainline as a standalone. They're two reasons for this. I've got no interest in running London to Penzance and I don't want to buy the Devon section to provide some of the assets needed for the add-on version of Cornish Mainlines.

    Different interests and playstyles; different needs.
     
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  28. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I don't see why it would crash. Does your computer crash a lot?
     
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  29. trevkiwi

    trevkiwi Member

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    I'm forced to buy JT routes off Steam as JT only allows me to purchase in US$ only. The conversion rate to NZ$ is horrendous. I can save up to about $20 NZ by purchasing them from Steam as I purchase in NZ$ off Steam.
     
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  30. Peter Hayes

    Peter Hayes Well-Known Member

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    Trev
    I guess the same holds for the Aussie dollar?
    If I buy the MML Sheffield-Derby via steam I pay AUD 56.95 if I purchase via JT (no USD bonus points) it costs AUD 58.74 plus Intnl charge of less than $1. So I pay about AUD 3 more via JT balanced against good support, faster updates, and bonus points in USD.
    I like the independence as the JT version cannot be modified by STEAM and I make all the changes.
    However, I do need to mention a convoluted download procedure from JT - which is a pain!
     
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  31. ex_railwayman

    ex_railwayman Active Member

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    There's no end of folks complain about game crashes, all the time, for many years, mine don't generally, but, I now have a good PC set up, and my hard drive is clean and tidy and all the junk files, such as tgt, cost, xml, etc, have been deleted from my game and all routes are checked and every asset is obtained, including missing textures. I've now deleted loads of sound domes and unnecessary animated stuff that's resource hungry on all of my routes. I used to have over 250 routes all in my Content folder from around the world, but, I think that bogs down the hard drive, so, putting them out of the way into individual folders assists in a smoother loading, I only have 24 routes active in my Content folder today, I interchange them every week and every one loads fairly quickly and they all run as smooth as silk.

    Cheerz. Steve.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2022
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  32. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I just got the merge. You can put all South Devon and Cornish scenarios in the main WML folder and they will work. It also allows for services that transition beyond Plymouth to, say, Par to head to the China Clay area for freight services originating anywhere to the east.
     
  33. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Well i ju
    This is my though as well i love having "merges" to make routes larger and JT have really done themself proud with this network
     
  34. yagna2308

    yagna2308 Member

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    Maybe this is the reason why there are almost no scenarios on any of the standalone MML routes on the steam workshop except from a few authors or maybe I am searching with the wrong keywords on the steam workshop for the JT MML routes, not sure.
     
  35. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Regarding South Devon, you are correct. There are, however, 39 scenarios for Cornish. It may be worth noting that the scenarios are usually made using stock that cannot be used on the Steam Workshop; a Just Trains Voyager, for instance, will appear only at UKTS, ATS, or anywhere other than the Workshop because the Workshop will not be able to process it due to not being released. (The 220 from the DTG pack will still work; however, no one can obtain that. And it was used a decent amount in the past. I think its loss has led to a loss of Voyager scenarios on the Workshop overall.

    And going back to South Devon; I'm sure many scenarios go from, say, Bristol to Plymouth or something like that. Merge required.
     
  36. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    A merge is required to run from Bristol to Plymouth - even though the Western Mainlines runs from Paddington to Penzance?
     
  37. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    The basic Western Mainlines has all of the track, signals, speedlimits, etc from Paddington to Penzance and the lines to Paignton and Bicester.
    It only has scenery as far as Exeter.
    I bought the CML and SDML from steam before the Western Mainlines from JT.
    I think when the Just Trains CML and SDML are bought, they add those scenic bits to Western Mainlines.
     
  38. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    No they don't. Got an email from JT a few weeks back saying once the standalone releases on their own website it is down to DTG when they choose to release on Steam.
     
  39. yagna2308

    yagna2308 Member

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    This is interesting, then by extending this logic to the JT Voyager Advanced 2019 DLC on JT's website, can it be inferred that DTG can choose to release the JT version of the Class 220 on steam (considering DTG withdrew the Class 220 Voyager due to licensing), so it's recognized in the steam workshop even now? I'm only curious as the Class 222 by JT is on steam and not the 220. Even the Class 153 Advanced for that matter.
     
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  40. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    the western mainlines default route has all the track and signals etc but no scenery past certain point and terrain all over the track.
     
  41. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    You can still drive it without the add-on segments?
     
  42. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    if you like driving without scenery and driving through terrain and not having platforms then yes you can. dont imagine its much fun though
     
  43. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I imagine it is like taking the Riviera Line to Kingswear. The modernish one in 2014 before the new expressway was built.
     
  44. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that as well
     
  45. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    It is designed that way. If you look at Sheffield to Derby it has all the scenery - go beyond Derby and the track goes to Leicester, Nottingham and Lincoln but it is bare. When you buy the extensions it adds the missing items.

    With the Western Mainlines it runs Paddington to Bristol/Cardiff then to Exeter.
    Like Sheffield to Derby the track is there beyond Exeter but is bare
    Purchase the Add-ons and you can go all the way to Paignton, Plymouth & Penzance.
     
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  46. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    This is what Trent Jn looks like without the extension to Leicester
    Screenshot_Just Trains - Midland Main Line_52.88232--1.27337_08-11-16.jpg
     
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  47. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    So could you in theory buy the individual standalone sections from Steam and add the missing bits yourself?
     
  48. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    I don't know about the MML but on Western Mainlines it is possible.
    I copied the necessary folders from the Steam bought CML and and SDML ( I can't remember which folders exactly} into the Western mainlines which gave me a fully scenic route. The route was also scenarized from Newton Abbot to Torquay. All the route required was a little bit of scenery placement at the start of the Torquay line and the completion of a couple of miles from Torquay to Paignton. Luckily Paignton Station was in the common library (I think). The only bit still bare is the Bicester section.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2022
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  49. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    MML cannot be pieced together as one route on Steam. I think Steam DRM prevents the others from working with the base route, or with the various connections. There is also the fact that the sections covered in the extensions is not actually tracked out in the original route, meaning that you cannot just copy the updated tiles into the original route to replace the other ones.
     
  50. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Yes thank you i am aware of that :)
     

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